Topic: Runaway Revs, Low mpg, air pods....connected issues?

[flybox1]

^^ Vacuum is too low and the slide needle is sitting in the needle jet.

[Jimray23]

Im not going to argue with you. That's just how it is. Use a/f meter and test the theory.

--------------------------------------------------
Jim
1979 kz1000b ltd
    stage 3 cams
    pod air filters
    4-1 open exhaust(no muffler)
    full rewire
    dyna-s ignition
    dyna 3 ohm coils

[flybox1]

No need to argue.  My point here is hman needs to address idle lean-ness with pilot jet and IMS changes, and not richen idle with a larger main jet.....that would only make him over-rich at anything above 1/2 throttle.

[Jimray23]

And if you read the earlier post, he also needed to re-jet for intake/exhaust changes

--------------------------------------------------
Jim
1979 kz1000b ltd
    stage 3 cams
    pod air filters
    4-1 open exhaust(no muffler)
    full rewire
    dyna-s ignition
    dyna 3 ohm coils

[hman0217]

No need to argue.  My point here is hman needs to address idle lean-ness with pilot jet and IMS changes, and not richen idle with a larger main jet.....that would only make him over-rich at anything above 1/2 throttle.

Now just to make sure we're all on the same page...did you read my post last night about the issues I was having while running and not at idle? I'm not revving high at idle anymore. But when I rode last night, my power was severely compromised. Yes, it DOES take me a good 5-7 minutes to get the engine warm enough to hold an idle. But once I'm warm it holds steady.

So given that, is it the pilot for the idle or the main for the running that is the target right now?

How about I start a new thread with a more appropriate title since a lot has evolved and the title seems to be causing some confusion?

and again, THANK YOU guys.

[hman0217]

additionally, If this same source I quoted before is to be trusted:

FROM; DO THE TON...

Quote
MAIN FUEL JET SIZE CHANGES NEEDED PER TYPICAL MODIFICATION:


PILOT FUEL JET SIZES CHANGES NEEDED PER TYPICAL MODIFICATION:

Pilot fuel jet size changes are related only to the change in main fuel jet sizes according to the main fuel jet size formula described above. Note that this pilot fuel jet rule is for the main fuel jet size change BEFORE any main fuel jet altitude compensation is factored in:

Increase the pilot fuel jet size +1 for every +3 main fuel jet size increases.

Additional changes:

- Decrease pilot fuel jet size by 1 for every 6000' above sea level.

Then the recommended pilot size would be #36.7, which doesn't exist, but falls right between a #35 and a #38. So...could I call the pilot good and just verify needle clip position?

[Jimray23]

Set the screw for idle first

--------------------------------------------------
Jim
1979 kz1000b ltd
    stage 3 cams
    pod air filters
    4-1 open exhaust(no muffler)
    full rewire
    dyna-s ignition
    dyna 3 ohm coils

[flybox1]

its a general guideline
your bike should be warm enough to hold an idle in under a minute.....if your idle air fuel mixture is correct.
if your plugs are coming out white after an idle plug chop, and you cant tune out the lean-ness with your IMS, you need to go to the next larger pilot jet size.
See my plug color pictures above.  do yours look tan like that?  if NO, then go to a larger pilot jet.
NO, a needle clip position change will not effect idle mixture.

[Jimray23]

You also have to set the air screws or it wont be right

--------------------------------------------------
Jim
1979 kz1000b ltd
    stage 3 cams
    pod air filters
    4-1 open exhaust(no muffler)
    full rewire
    dyna-s ignition
    dyna 3 ohm coils

[hman0217]

its a general guideline
your bike should be warm enough to hold an idle in under a minute.....if your idle air fuel mixture is correct.
if your plugs are coming out white after an idle plug chop, and you cant tune out the lean-ness with your IMS, you need to go to the next larger pilot jet size.
See my plug color pictures above.  do yours look tan like that?  if NO, then go to a larger pilot jet.
NO, a needle clip position change will not effect idle mixture.

Alright so here are better daylight closeups of my plug chops. Honestly, it doesn't look like anything happened to me. I did it for a whole five minutes with a hot engine.

I wouldn't say these are white. But they aren't tan either. What do you think? upsize the pilots? turn in the IMS screws?

And...could my reduced power non-smooth running condition yesterday night be in any way related to what is essentially an idle-to-1/8 throttle tuning issue?

[hman0217]

You also have to set the air screws or it wont be right

--------------------------------------------------
Jim
1979 kz1000b ltd
    stage 3 cams
    pod air filters
    4-1 open exhaust(no muffler)
    full rewire
    dyna-s ignition
    dyna 3 ohm coils

So why don't the IMS screws affect the color during a plug chop? if they affect air/fuel mixture, why wouldn't that impact the plug chop itself? I'm just trying to wrap my head around this piece of the puzzle for my own understanding.

But yes, I understand that, in the end, I should be around 1 - 1.5 turns out.

thanks

[flybox1]

1.5 turns out is just a starting point. its not the ONLY stetting they can be.
Turn your IMS 1 full turn richer, and retest.
After this next test....if you have NO color on those plugs, and NO more IMS adjustment richer to give, then you have to go up a size on all pilot jets....period.

please have a fan on your engine while doing these idle plug chops

[Jimray23]

If you turn your screws in to 1 turn out and do a plug chop that will give u a better idea of what u need to do.

--------------------------------------------------
Jim
1979 kz1000b ltd
    stage 3 cams
    pod air filters
    4-1 open exhaust(no muffler)
    full rewire
    dyna-s ignition
    dyna 3 ohm coils

[flybox1]

If you turn your screws in to 1 turn out and do a plug chop that will give u a better idea of what u need to do.

--------------------------------------------------
Jim
1979 kz1000b ltd
    stage 3 cams
    pod air filters
    4-1 open exhaust(no muffler)
    full rewire
    dyna-s ignition
    dyna 3 ohm coils

OUT is LEANER.   

OUT is richer only for PD carbs

[Jimray23]

Yes and he is to lean now

--------------------------------------------------
Jim
1979 kz1000b ltd
    stage 3 cams
    pod air filters
    4-1 open exhaust(no muffler)
    full rewire
    dyna-s ignition
    dyna 3 ohm coils

[Jimray23]

If you turn your screws in to 1 turn out and do a plug chop that will give u a better idea of what u need to do.

--------------------------------------------------
Jim
1979 kz1000b ltd
    stage 3 cams
    pod air filters
    4-1 open exhaust(no muffler)
    full rewire
    dyna-s ignition
    dyna 3 ohm coils

OUT is LEANER.   

OUT is richer only for PD carbs

Thats exactly what ive been saying

--------------------------------------------------
Jim
1979 kz1000b ltd
    stage 3 cams
    pod air filters
    4-1 open exhaust(no muffler)
    full rewire
    dyna-s ignition
    dyna 3 ohm coils

[flybox1]

Youre suggesting he turn them out?  MORE lean?!?!  as if thats going to get this fixed?

Hes got roundtop 657A/B, 086A carbs.  (NOT PD Carbs)   

hman...turn your IMS inward to make idle air fuel mixture richer.....see if you can get the plugs to color up.
Stock pilot should be a #40

[Jimray23]

its a general guideline
your bike should be warm enough to hold an idle in under a minute.....if your idle air fuel mixture is correct.
if your plugs are coming out white after an idle plug chop, and you cant tune out the lean-ness with your IMS, you need to go to the next larger pilot jet size.
See my plug color pictures above.  do yours look tan like that?  if NO, then go to a larger pilot jet.
NO, a needle clip position change will not effect idle mixture.

Alright so here are better daylight closeups of my plug chops. Honestly, it doesn't look like anything happened to me. I did it for a whole five minutes with a hot engine.

I wouldn't say these are white. But they aren't tan either. What do you think? upsize the pilots? turn in the IMS screws?

And...could my reduced power non-smooth running condition yesterday night be in any way related to what is essentially an idle-to-1/8 throttle tuning issue?

Your unsmooth run is most likely caused by the slow/pilot jet and the air screw. That's the main purpose of those two items

--------------------------------------------------
Jim
1979 kz1000b ltd
    stage 3 cams
    pod air filters
    4-1 open exhaust(no muffler)
    full rewire
    dyna-s ignition
    dyna 3 ohm coils

[Jimray23]

Youre suggesting he turn them out?  MORE lean?!?!  as if thats going to get this fixed?

Hes got roundtop 657A/B, 086A carbs.  (NOT PD Carbs)   

hman...turn your IMS inward to make idle air fuel mixture richer.....see if you can get the plugs to color up.
Stock pilot should be a #40

No. Read what i actually wrote, not just part of it. I said turn the air screw to 1 turn out. I did not say to turn the air screw out 1 turn. That means lightly seat the air screw and then back that same air screw out 1 full turn.

--------------------------------------------------
Jim
1979 kz1000b ltd
    stage 3 cams
    pod air filters
    4-1 open exhaust(no muffler)
    full rewire
    dyna-s ignition
    dyna 3 ohm coils

[calj737]

Hey Flybox, I don't recall EVER seeing the OP verify his full level via Clear Tube. Perhaps, with all the back-and-forth from conflicting advice to a Newbie, that test should be done. Then, Hman0217 can start a new thread, detail what his current configuration is, and post plug chops. Seems it would clear up heaps of confusion and conflicting advice.

[Jimray23]

Hey Flybox, I don't recall EVER seeing the OP verify his full level via Clear Tube. Perhaps, with all the back-and-forth from conflicting advice to a Newbie, that test should be done. Then, Hman0217 can start a new thread, detail what his current configuration is, and post plug chops. Seems it would clear up heaps of confusion and conflicting advice.

Post 3 says he set the floats and verified with clear tube method

--------------------------------------------------
Jim
1979 kz1000b ltd
    stage 3 cams
    pod air filters
    4-1 open exhaust(no muffler)
    full rewire
    dyna-s ignition
    dyna 3 ohm coils

[calj737]

Post 3 says he set the floats and verified with clear tube method

You need to pay closer attention to what was written. He stated he would investigate a Clear Tube test. Then, for 2 more pages of posts, "the test" was never performed, nor results posted. So, I am highly suspect it was ever verified. He has received so many "inputs" about different rabbit holes to chase down, different symptoms, different configurations, that he is all over the place. As is this thread.

But feel free to review all the posts to correct me.

[hman0217]

Post 3 says he set the floats and verified with clear tube method

You need to pay closer attention to what was written. He stated he would investigate a Clear Tube test. Then, for 2 more pages of posts, "the test" was never performed, nor results posted. So, I am highly suspect it was ever verified. He has received so many "inputs" about different rabbit holes to chase down, different symptoms, different configurations, that he is all over the place. As is this thread.

But feel free to review all the posts to correct me.

Yea this thread is too convoluted and the evidence is not all posted and/or verified.

I had to cut out for work but I will be starting a new thread as soon as possible. And I will post pics of the clear tube method results as well.

Thank you

[mrbreeze]

Hey Flybox, I don't recall EVER seeing the OP verify his full level via Clear Tube. Perhaps, with all the back-and-forth from conflicting advice to a Newbie, that test should be done. Then, Hman0217 can start a new thread, detail what his current configuration is, and post plug chops. Seems it would clear up heaps of confusion and conflicting advice.

Post 3 says he set the floats and verified with clear tube method

--------------------------------------------------
Jim
1979 kz1000b ltd
    stage 3 cams
    pod air filters
    4-1 open exhaust(no muffler)
    full rewire
    dyna-s ignition
    dyna 3 ohm coils

If floats are set by measurement....they are not set. They are set when the clear tube is done and all fuel levels are at 3mm below top of bowl. When people tell me their car won't start I have to ask them if it won't crank over or it won't start!! Yas just gotta be specific sometimes!!

[hman0217]

I've tried posting a new topic about ten times and it doesn't let me. moderators: why can't I post!?!?

Anyway, I have no recourse but to post it here for now.

I was requested to do a clear tube method float level check and I am posting the results of that test below. the first pic is the bike on the center stand with the tubes taped to the side and the following four pictures show the levels of 1 - 4, in that order.

I do apologize sincerely for not doing this earlier. Clearly, #1 and #3 are low by 2-4 mm. Calj, you were right. I admit I didn't execute this step previously.

Based on this new information...

Should I fix the float levels BEFORE I mess with the IMS screws?

Also, I know it's a matter of bending the tabs. But if there are any pointers you'd like to throw at me before I fix these, please do. Also, could this be the reason for the specific symptoms I've experienced - power loss and the previous high rev issue?

While I'm inside the carbs, is there anything else I should verify?

Again, I am sorry to you all for not following your exact advice on this point and am now placing myself fully at your command!

Thanks again.