Author Topic: New member / new CB500 owner in Austin, TX  (Read 3774 times)

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Offline mrmunsell

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New member / new CB500 owner in Austin, TX
« on: July 31, 2017, 09:42:24 PM »
Hello All.

I just purchased a 1973 CB500 Four on Friday.  This is my second motorcycle.  My first was a 2011 CBR250R.  I have had that bike for about 4 years / 10K miles.  I still own it, but will probably be putting it up for sale soon.  It was an excellent bike to learn on, but I was ready to move on.  I plan to keep the CB500 much longer...  I am really happy with it.

I purchased the CB500 in relatively good running condition with 12.5K miles on it.  Had a local shop (Limey Bikes) inspect it before purchase.  After I bought it, I took it back to them to have them adjust the chain, replace the regulator, adjust the points, and sync / adjust carbs.   And it is running better now.

They noted it has cheap aftermarket points and recommended replacing those the next time it is due for an adjustment.  I am contemplating whether to replace them with better quality points (they recommended Daiichi) or going electronic (I believe they recommended Dyna).  I plan to maintain the bike myself and don't mind having to routinely adjust the points (I average about 2.5K miles per year).  If I keep them adjusted and use good quality parts... any reason to be weary of sticking with points on these bikes?

They also noted the carb linkage is sloppy.  They were able to get the carbs adjusted, but it sounded like the slop made it more challenging.  And it didn't sound like there was an easy fix for the slop.  I am not familiar enough with the carbs yet to understand what would cause the symptom... but is that something a set of carb rebuild kits would address? (I have the shop manual and have just started reading up on that)

After getting it home and putting some miles on it, I noticed the float in carb #4 seems to be sticking.  It spills fuel out that overflow tube after I ride it.  And if I don't shut off the fuel, it will keep doing it periodically until I do.  So I have started shutting off the fuel after riding to minimize the wasted fuel.  I have tried some of the easier things I saw suggested on this forum and elsewhere (rocked the bike back and forth, tapped on the carb bowl, drained the carb bowl, ran some fuel system cleaner through it).  Not sure if it is placebo effect or real, but it seems that the symptom may be improving... seems to take longer after a ride before the first occurrence.  Initially, it would occur within seconds after riding... now it seems to take on the order of ten minutes.  Monitoring the condition for now.

The exhaust is aftermarket (Kerker) and has some small holes on the underside of the lower pipes, just before the collector - looks like due to a combination of scraping and rusting.  And some of the header / down pipes have heavy rust.  This exhaust is a bit on the loud side for my tastes, although it is probably louder than it was originally due to the holes, etc.  So, a new exhaust system is on my todo list.  I love the stock exhaust on the CB400 Four SS.  Does anyone make anything along those lines for the CB500?

It had a minor lighting issue... dash lights and rear parking light were not working.  I resolved that symptom by just taking apart the light switch, cleaning it, and putting a little electrical grease on the contacts.  Time will tell if that fix is temporary or long term.

It came with what appears to be an original key... but it is bent and starting to crack at that bend.  A local locksmith tried to copy the key today, but that key works marginally in the ignition (requires some wiggling and fidgeting) and will not even fit into the seat lock.   Thanks to the forum, I learned about Hondakeys.com.  I sent them an inquiry via email and Mark responded promptly to let me know they have NOS keys for my motorcycle... so I will be ordering a couple of those soon.

Looking forward to spending time on these forums.  Thanks!

Offline b52bombardier1

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Re: New member / new CB500 owner in Austin, TX
« Reply #1 on: August 01, 2017, 05:56:55 AM »
Nice bike and welcome to the group. I have a bike very similar to yours and I absolutely love mine after bringing it back from a nearly 40 year slumber.

That's amazing and very good that you found a local bike shop that will do work on a bike that age. Most of the dealerships around here won't touch a points bike. Now that you have yours in reasonable tune and you will be running only 2500 miles per year, I'd stick with points. I have put a little over 1300 miles on mine since it's rebirth without a bit of ignition points trouble. I did have to replace all four spark plug caps due to high ohms resistance but that was a small dollars repair and easy.

Carbs and fuel tank issues have caused me more heartburn than anything but they are also resolved for now.  Here is my best piece of advice to you - run "no ethanol " fuel if you can find it. With your slow rate of bike usage, your carbs will thank you. It's about 80 cents a gallon extra around here but is worth every penny because it does not attract water and it stores very well.

Rick

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N900A using Tapatalk

1971 School Bus Yellow Aermacchi H-D Sprint 350
1972 Candy Yellow CL100 K2
1972 Candy Jet Green Honda CB500
1973 Mighty Green ST90 K0
1974 Mars Orange CT90 K5
1975 Topaz Orange ST90 K2
1976 Shiny Orange CT90
2006 Honda Foreman 500 (restored)

Offline Stev-o

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Re: New member / new CB500 owner in Austin, TX
« Reply #2 on: August 01, 2017, 06:31:52 AM »
Welcome from Lake Travis. Looks like a nice bike!   I know of Limey, I'm surprised that he did not talk you into putting electronic ignition on it, he is known for that.

Nothing wrong with running points. 

Not sure what you mean by "carb slop"?  Do the cables need adjusting? If not the cables, maybe you are missing some linkage parts?  Carb kits will not address this.

The 550F model [I have one] came with a four into one exhaust system like the 400F. However, they are hard to find, expensive if in good shape, and not a direct bolt on.   Kerker makes a good pipe, a stock four into four would look great on your bike.

There should be a key code on your key or the lock. You can buy them on ebay too. I've bought a few here...

http://www.ebay.com/itm/NOS-Pre-Cut-Honda-Motorcycle-Keys-60s-70s-models-T4235-T6997-T3-T4-Style-/192017959427?var=&hash=item2cb5298a03:m:mvOgAtu-gwfF8qrs-ecttfg

LEt me know if you want to ride in the North Lake Travis area, I know a lot of great roads!

And put the Harvest Classic on your calendar for Oct, we always have a good Honda turnout!

http://www.harvestclassic.org/
'74 "Big Bang" Honda 750K [836].....'76 Honda 550F.....K3 Park Racer!......and a Bomber!............plus plus plus.........

Offline CycleRanger

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Re: New member / new CB500 owner in Austin, TX
« Reply #3 on: August 01, 2017, 06:44:34 AM »
Howdy! Welcome!

Sounds like you're getting your new bike sorted out.  :)
Do you have a copy of the Honda Shop Manual or Parts List for your bike? Get one here:
https://www.honda4fun.com/materiale/documentazione-tecnica
CB750K5        '79 XL250s     CL350K3
CB750K3        '76 XS650      '76 CJ360T

Offline rocket johnny

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Re: New member / new CB500 owner in Austin, TX
« Reply #4 on: August 01, 2017, 06:47:47 AM »
 :)  welcome from western colo. !    a very nice looking bike !    the honda dealer here in grand jct. has worked on my 76 750k 3-4 times and they are good folks to deal with .  ride safe

Offline mrmunsell

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Re: New member / new CB500 owner in Austin, TX
« Reply #5 on: August 01, 2017, 10:36:23 AM »
Thanks for the warm welcome, everyone.

b52bombardier1:

Yeah, I learned of Limey Bikes while I was shopping around for this Honda.  Their name cropped up several times while looking at other bikes - always positive.  They specialize in vintage British and Japanese motorcycles.  My experience with them was very positive as well.

Not sure if ethanol fuel is available anywhere near me.  I looked into that in the past for my other motorcycle, lawnmower, chainsaw, etc… and did not find any gas stations offering it.  The only thing I am aware of at present is the canned fuel you can buy at Tractor Supply.  I use it for the small engine equipment only (chainsaw and trimmer)… not practical for anything else.  Has been a few years though… I should look into that again.

Limey indicated my tank had been lined with 'Creme'... it appeared to be in good condition now, but something to keep an eye on.  They said it will likely start coming off at some point and cause all sorts of problems - but that it could be years or more.


Stev-o:

Thank you for the eBay auction link - but they didn’t have my key code.  I had also searched eBay before I found Hondakeys and only found the key blank for my bike.  I just mailed in my Hondakeys order.

Regarding the carb slop, their feedback was in regards to the linkage.  My understanding is that the linkage slop they mentioned makes it more challenging to adjust the carbs properly… I don’t really notice any symptoms while actually riding (and the throttle cables are adjusted properly).

The Kerker exhaust is starting to grow on me a little.  I may try to just repair it for now to buy some time… while I contemplate the longer term plan. 

Although my address is Austin, I am actually in a rural area outside of Austin.  Roughly midway between Dripping Springs and Bee Caves.  So not too far from you.  But, I am not ready to venture out too far from home with the bike yet.  Need to learn a lot more about it, get a good handle on the current state of things, etc.  I put a little over 100 miles on it so far, taking progressively longer trips in my area.  For the most part, it seems to be running better and better each time I take it out.  Previous owner only rode it 300 miles in 1.5 years and his registration had expired last year… so it has been ridden relatively little in the recent history before I purchased it.

Took it about 20 miles away from home this morning to run some errands.  That was my longest outing so far.  It was really running great until it started acting up on the way back.  While cruising at highway speeds, it lost power for a split second - then recovered on its own.  Then did it again a little later - but for a few seconds this time.  Then it ran fine for several minutes... then did it again… but this time it didn’t recover quickly on its own as before.  It would not accelerate or even maintain speed, but it wasn’t dead either… giving it throttle would slow the rate of deceleration.  Pulled in the clutch, engine speed fell to idle, stumbled for a second, and then died.  I just coasted to a stop on the side of the road.  Engine would restart, but would not idle on its own.  Had to give it some throttle to keep it idling - and it was rough.  So I let it sit for a few minutes while checking ignition cables, wiring connections, fuel / air leak, etc… did not find anything obvious.  Oil level was fine... and still looked very clean (PO had oil / filter changed a couple months ago).  Then tried starting it again and it fired right up without any throttle assist.  Idled on its own, sounded good, good throttle response, pulled strong, etc.  Got most the way home, then it did it again maybe a couple miles from home.  Eventually made it home under the bikes own power.  Based on the way this problem symptom seems to just cut in and out, wondering if it is maybe some type of electrical / ignition issue.

I need to investigate this later when I have some time - I'll make sure to start by searching the forums.  But the point of that story is... I don’t I know this bike well enough yet nor is it well sorted enough yet for me to drive it too far from home right now or probably in the near future.  :)

Harvest Classic looks interesting.  I was not aware of it previously... but I put it in my calendar and will consider attending.
« Last Edit: August 01, 2017, 10:44:43 AM by mrmunsell »

Offline CycleRanger

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Re: New member / new CB500 owner in Austin, TX
« Reply #6 on: August 01, 2017, 10:40:59 AM »
Sounds like you're close to me, I'm near Trautwein road.
The closest non-ethanol gas I've ever found was in Fredricksburg.
Do you have a copy of the Honda Shop Manual or Parts List for your bike? Get one here:
https://www.honda4fun.com/materiale/documentazione-tecnica
CB750K5        '79 XL250s     CL350K3
CB750K3        '76 XS650      '76 CJ360T

Offline mrmunsell

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Re: New member / new CB500 owner in Austin, TX
« Reply #7 on: August 01, 2017, 10:55:16 AM »
Yes, indeed.  I am off Fitzhugh Rd... not too far from the intersection of Fitzhugh and Trautwein.

Offline mrmunsell

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Re: New member / new CB500 owner in Austin, TX
« Reply #8 on: August 03, 2017, 03:20:26 PM »
Update on the carb issues:

I took off the carbs today to investigate the suspected sticking float.  After I had the tank off, but before I even started to remove the carbs, I noticed the broken link washer shown in the attached image.  I think this might be the cause of the 'excessive carb linkage slop during adjustment' symptom Limey had reported.  There is no noticeable slop when operating the throttle by hand from the cable wheel... which would be consistent with my experience while riding (no noticeable slop / excessive free play when operated from the throttle tube).

Took the bowls off.  Things are pretty clean inside the carbs.  The previous owner indicated he had new carbs installed in June, but he had no documentation.  Limey had informed me new carbs are not available for these bikes and they certainly didn't look new either.  But they looked relatively clean on the outside.  So I figured the previous owner probably really meant they were either rebuilt or had been replaced with rebuilt units.  The condition inside the bowls looks consistent with that (cleaned and rebuilt not too long ago).

The float needles / seats all looked pretty clean.  None of the floats were stuck.  They are all operable, though the #4 seemed a tad rough when I operated it sometimes.  And that float assembly is also out of whack.  The individual floats are about 5 mm different in height and the arm connecting them looks a little tweaked.  When I operate the needle spring directly, it is pretty smooth if I apply force inline with it.  But it is rough if the force is applied with a little side load.  Wondering these conditions might conspire to keep the needle from fully seating or at all under the right conditions.  Certainly cannot be helping anything.

I was careful in taking the bowls off (pulled the carbs off bike and did it at a workbench, etc).  So, I am pretty confident this is an existing condition and not something I caused during disassembly.  Looking into carb kits now... considering just re-rebuilding them to address this and make sure there are no other problems lurking.

Offline Stev-o

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Re: New member / new CB500 owner in Austin, TX
« Reply #9 on: August 03, 2017, 03:33:21 PM »
Beware: most aftermarket carb kits [excepti gaskets] are crap and can cause tuning problems.

Contact member Harisuluv for the broken part, if needed.  He is the resident carb guru.

PS.  Never believe what a seller tells you!  [you now know that]
'74 "Big Bang" Honda 750K [836].....'76 Honda 550F.....K3 Park Racer!......and a Bomber!............plus plus plus.........

Offline mrmunsell

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Re: New member / new CB500 owner in Austin, TX
« Reply #10 on: August 03, 2017, 05:30:11 PM »
Great, thank you for the warning and the lead on replacement carb parts.

I searched the forum to see what rebuild kits are good... and saw what you mean about the rebuild kits.

To my eye, these carbs appear to have original hard parts (or at least they were not replaced in any recent rebuilds).  The exception would be the float needles / seats, which all look new.  While the condition of the gaskets and o-rings looks good, I have doubts about the correctness of some of the sizing.  In particular, the main jet o-ring thickness seems a little small... and they came out very easily with my fingers (unlike the float seats which required needle nose pliers and a little effort to remove).  I see that the carb fuel hoses are marked 'Parts Unlimited'.  The battery is also 'Parts Unlimited'.  The previous owner said the same mechanic did the battery replacement and carb work at the same time.  So I wouldn't be surprised if that is where they got the carb rebuilt kit from as well.

So maybe my best bet is to just go through the carbs, clean everything, look for any other issues, replace the gaskets / o-rings, and only replace hard parts that have unresolvable issues or that are already non-OEM / suspect quality (like the float needles / seats).  I think I can straighten the tweaked float back out.

Offline CycleRanger

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Re: New member / new CB500 owner in Austin, TX
« Reply #11 on: August 03, 2017, 05:41:54 PM »
Hey, I too pulled the carbs off the 550 I'm working on today and found the same broken part.
4into1 sells them but they are out of stock. :(
http://4into1.com/carburetor-synchronizing-links-set-of-2-honda-cb350f-400f-500k-550/
Sirius has them, also out of stock....
https://www.siriusconinc.com/pro-detail.php?pid=&product_id=122344

Must be a lot of broken ones out there....
Do you have a copy of the Honda Shop Manual or Parts List for your bike? Get one here:
https://www.honda4fun.com/materiale/documentazione-tecnica
CB750K5        '79 XL250s     CL350K3
CB750K3        '76 XS650      '76 CJ360T

Offline mrmunsell

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Re: New member / new CB500 owner in Austin, TX
« Reply #12 on: August 03, 2017, 05:54:45 PM »
I checked an online Honda dealer as well... and as far as I could tell, Honda doesn't even sell that part separately.  It is part of a larger assembly which is now obsolete.

The only thing I have found so far which appears to be in stock is the eBay auction linked below.  I cannot speak to the quality of these, but the seller has sold 22 of them and still has 100% feedback.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/CB500-CB550-CB350-CB400-Four-Keihin-new-carb-stabilizer-springs-set-of-2-/112017057417?hash=item1a14bca689:g:DHQAAMXQKAtRLR9x&vxp=mtr

Offline CycleRanger

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Re: New member / new CB500 owner in Austin, TX
« Reply #13 on: August 03, 2017, 06:05:57 PM »
That seller is a member here but he hasn't been on in a year.
Thanks for the link!
Do you have a copy of the Honda Shop Manual or Parts List for your bike? Get one here:
https://www.honda4fun.com/materiale/documentazione-tecnica
CB750K5        '79 XL250s     CL350K3
CB750K3        '76 XS650      '76 CJ360T

Offline mrmunsell

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Re: New member / new CB500 owner in Austin, TX
« Reply #14 on: August 03, 2017, 06:47:40 PM »
I just sent a PM to Harisuluv as Stev-o had suggested.  I also sent an inquiry to Limey earlier today to see if they sell parts outright - and asked specifically about this part in addition to some others I need.  I'll let you know if either of those turn out to be viable sources for this part.

Offline CycleRanger

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Re: New member / new CB500 owner in Austin, TX
« Reply #15 on: August 03, 2017, 07:17:01 PM »
I just sent a PM to Harisuluv as Stev-o had suggested.  I also sent an inquiry to Limey earlier today to see if they sell parts outright - and asked specifically about this part in addition to some others I need.  I'll let you know if either of those turn out to be viable sources for this part.

I've gotten XS650 parts from Chris at Limey Bikes in the past.
He seemed amiable to selling parts when he has them to spare.

As far as other parts just make a post in the Parts Wanted area and the forum usually delivers. :)
Do you have a copy of the Honda Shop Manual or Parts List for your bike? Get one here:
https://www.honda4fun.com/materiale/documentazione-tecnica
CB750K5        '79 XL250s     CL350K3
CB750K3        '76 XS650      '76 CJ360T

Offline mrmunsell

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Re: New member / new CB500 owner in Austin, TX
« Reply #16 on: August 04, 2017, 10:39:12 AM »
Haven't heard back on those other options... but just went ahead and ordered a pair of the links from the forum member via that eBay auction.  Even though the lead time is long (international shipping), I figure I can just use some fence wire bent into a similar shape temporarily if I get everything else together before that part arrives.
« Last Edit: August 04, 2017, 10:42:41 AM by mrmunsell »

Offline Stev-o

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Re: New member / new CB500 owner in Austin, TX
« Reply #17 on: August 04, 2017, 01:33:04 PM »
Haris may respond quicker to email:

harisuluv@gmail.com
'74 "Big Bang" Honda 750K [836].....'76 Honda 550F.....K3 Park Racer!......and a Bomber!............plus plus plus.........

Offline mrmunsell

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Re: New member / new CB500 owner in Austin, TX
« Reply #18 on: August 08, 2017, 07:37:46 PM »
I am waiting on some parts to address the carb and ignition / wiring issues.  Meanwhile, I decided to take off the exhaust and inspect it.

Ended up taking the exhaust off as a complete assembly because the slip on muffler did not want to separate and I didn't want to risk damaging the frame, mounts, etc.  It came off as a unit without any struggle, although I noticed it seemed to be rather flexible at the collector area (which was wrapped in header / exhaust wrap).  With it off, I put a little strain on that area and it just split open as the wrap gave.  It appears the exhaust was pretty far gone in this area and someone fixed it with an exhaust repair kit and then wrapped it.  No telling how long ago that was... but I think the exhaust repair kit had served its useful life and this was mostly being held together by the header wrap by the time I got it.

I think the headers are a lost cause... even as an interim solution.  So I ordered a Delkevic exhaust system.

The muffler may still be usable... it just has one hole and some relatively minor dents on the underside.  Look pretty good on the top and exposed side.  No evidence of prior repairs.  If you have any interest in this, check the free stuff area... giving it away.
« Last Edit: August 08, 2017, 07:57:02 PM by mrmunsell »

Offline CycleRanger

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Re: New member / new CB500 owner in Austin, TX
« Reply #19 on: August 08, 2017, 07:41:58 PM »
I think the headers are a lost cause... even as an interim solution.  So I ordered a Delkevic exhaust system.

Good choice!
Yeah that Kerker might still have some life left in it.
Do you have a copy of the Honda Shop Manual or Parts List for your bike? Get one here:
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CB750K5        '79 XL250s     CL350K3
CB750K3        '76 XS650      '76 CJ360T

Offline Davez134

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Re: New member / new CB500 owner in Austin, TX
« Reply #20 on: August 11, 2017, 05:11:31 PM »
I was reading your earlier post about your bike not running right after a while, losing power, then firing back up after sitting. I had a very similar issue with my first cb750, and it turned out the vent in the gas cap was corroded/clogged and not allowing air in quick enough to replace spent fuel. Just something else quick and easy to check.

Offline nbcam

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Re: New member / new CB500 owner in Austin, TX
« Reply #21 on: August 11, 2017, 06:51:46 PM »
Best of luck with the new bike, looks good. Just purchased a 1977 CB550F myself and currently have the carbs off for cleaning, bought a kit online but looked poor quality so i'm putting back all the OEM parts and only replacing whats needed o-rings etc.

Offline mrmunsell

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Re: New member / new CB500 owner in Austin, TX
« Reply #22 on: August 12, 2017, 11:34:49 PM »
CycleRanger:  Yeah, the Delkevic seemed like a good value.  It is great that a stainless steel exhaust is available for these bikes at such a reasonable price.

Davez134:  Thanks for that tip.  I have not checked that yet (tank vent / gas cap).  I plan to work on the bike tomorrow... that is on my todo list now.  I will check it... although I will wait to fix it if I do find an issue... just because I am in the midst of fixing something else that may have caused that symptom and I want to be certain about the cause / effect.  Note that I started a thread about that symptom (link below).  In summary, the wiring to my ignition coils was marginal and my coils were the wrong impedance (2.5 Ohm vs stock 5 Ohm).  I don't think the latter was a factor in this particular symptom, but may have contributed to other issues (regulator issue reported by Limey, etc).  I am in the process of fixing the ignition issues as well as some other issues.  Hope to have most of that work wrapped up tomorrow... but I am still waiting on a Honda for my carb parts... so that is going to keep me from getting the bike together until sometime next week.

http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,167549.0.html

nbcam: Thank you.  From what I have learned here, that sounds like the safe way to proceed regarding the carb kits.  I considered buying an aftermarket kit just for the gaskets / o-rings... but the Honda gasket kit actually wasn't that much more (from Partzilla) than the aftermarket kits I had been considering (the ones that appeared to be of decent quality - which ruled out some of those super cheap eBay ones, etc).  I also ordered a set of float needles / seats from Honda... which unfortunately were quite a bit more expensive than the aftermarket alternatives... but worth it to me assuming they have a decent service life and won't have to be replaced again anytime soon (I'll keep the old ones as spare parts since 3 of 4 seem to be working properly).   Good luck with your 550.  Very happy with my 500 so far... cannot wait to get it back together and on the road again.
« Last Edit: August 12, 2017, 11:36:47 PM by mrmunsell »

Offline mrmunsell

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Re: New member / new CB500 owner in Austin, TX
« Reply #23 on: August 14, 2017, 12:04:34 PM »
I checked the tank venting yesterday.  The vent opening in the cap is probably a bit smaller than stock due to tank liner, but the venting still seems to be sufficient.  My todo list for yesterday included rebuilding the petcock valve anyway, so I drained the tank (nearly full) and watched the flow rate with cap open and closed.  Even if I let it drain for awhile with the cap closed and then opened the cap, I did not see any increase in flow (as I might expect if the vent were restricted enough to allow vacuum to develop in the tank, etc).  So I don't think the tank venting is an issue in my case.

The petcock was pretty clean inside... a bit of dirt and debris in the bowl but otherwise pretty clean.  The o-rings and gaskets looked pretty worn though.  I rebuilt it because it was still allowing light flow while in the off position (which I learned when I remove the tank to do some carb work).  The rebuild seems to have resolved that issue.

I got the new exhaust installed yesterday as well...

Offline CycleRanger

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Re: New member / new CB500 owner in Austin, TX
« Reply #24 on: August 14, 2017, 12:17:25 PM »
Exhaust looks nice!!  :)
Do you have a copy of the Honda Shop Manual or Parts List for your bike? Get one here:
https://www.honda4fun.com/materiale/documentazione-tecnica
CB750K5        '79 XL250s     CL350K3
CB750K3        '76 XS650      '76 CJ360T