Author Topic: Ignition cut out on me 4 times this morning  (Read 3583 times)

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Online PeWe

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Re: Ignition cut out on me 4 times this morning
« Reply #25 on: October 19, 2017, 10:00:27 pm »
I had a bad battery that I noticed during a touring in north Italy. Four guys on 2 bikes.  On a curvy beautiful road beside the Adriatic sea the headlight just died on my bike just before a corner and I did not see that well. The blinkers started to glow at the same time. I found that the light worked fine as long as I kept the rpm at minimum 4000.  No problem with ignition.
I changed the battery when back home. Riding was mostly done in daylight or over 4000 rpm.
CB750 K6-76  970cc (Earlier 1005cc JMR Billet block on the shelf waiting for a comeback)
CB750 K2-75 Parts assembled to a stock K2

Updates of the CB750 K6 -1976
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,180468.msg2092136.html#msg2092136
The billet block build thread
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,49438.msg1863571.html#msg1863571
CB750 K2 -1975  build thread
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,168243.msg1948381.html#msg1948381
K2 engine build thread. For a complete CB750 -75
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,180088.msg2088008.html#msg2088008
Carb jetting, a long story Mikuni TMR32
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,179479.msg2104967.html#msg2104967

Offline RandomOrbit

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Re: Ignition cut out on me 4 times this morning
« Reply #26 on: October 20, 2017, 03:35:55 am »
Clearly you have doubts, or why would you be replacing the Vreg?

A year ago I didn't even get my bike out. Having owned it for 26 years It's only missed 2 riding seasons due not having the time and/or money to get it on the road. So when I got it out this year, it needed stuff. It's an old motorcycle. I'm sure all of us here know they ALWAYS need stuff. So over the course of this summer I have been chipping away at the list.

  • rebuild front brakes
  • rebuild carburetors
  • new air filter
  • new plugs
  • replace throttle cables
  • helicoil repair leaky fork leg drain plug
  • replace turn indicator relay (which worked most of the time, but would intermittently cut out)
  • replace points cover gasket
  • replace gas cap gasket
  • new clutch cable
  • new oil filter bolt
  • new tach & speedo cables

I've owned this bike for 26 years and done almost all of the work myself, so I know everything that's wrong with it is on me either due to neglect or, for instance over torquing a fork leg drain plug bolt, but I love this bike and regret having let it slide into disrepair, so I've been plugging away at it as time and funds allow, and so far this summer I've found that if I work on a system, it's probably best to replace what I can, because more than once I started working on something, like the brakes for instance and had to stop because I needed more parts. SO now I'm to the point where most of the mechanical issues are all in hand, and I'm moving onto less pressing issues, like  replacing the cracked turn indicator lenses. The charging system has been on my mind all summer, but it's been a low priority, because It's never required me to charge the battery manually, and it just keeps running, but it's the next thing I'm tackling. Less important than good working brakes, and more important than shiny fenders. So I know it needs work, and I figure if I'm going to work on it I might as well replace the 41 year old regulator and rectifier which I know to be something that gets problematic with age, and which I have never touched in the last 26 years. From what I've heard the electronic ones work better than stock. So that seems like a good idea. BUT I've been riding it this way for years, not really knowing it was a problem for a lot of them. I put several thousand miles on it this summer, and it hasn't been particularly problematic in spite of the fact that it is clearly not right. In those miles I've found that it doesn't seem to make a difference wether I go 10 miles and never get above 4000 rpm, or go 50 miles and push it straight to redline. At the end of the ride the battery is still in it's same workable, but sub optimal state. So no I haven't put the voltage meter on it at multiple RMPS, but I've ridden it enough to have a pretty good idea that an extra 1000 rpm for 45 minutes is not gong to make a remarkable difference.
CB750k6 owned since 1991

Offline rotortiller

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Re: Ignition cut out on me 4 times this morning
« Reply #27 on: October 20, 2017, 04:06:12 am »
Quote
So no I haven't put the voltage meter on it at multiple RMPS, but I've ridden it enough to have a pretty good idea that an extra 1000 rpm for 45 minutes is not gong to make a remarkable difference.

I have and you are absolutely correct. Stock battery, regulator and rectifier with headlight always on. LOL




Offline RandomOrbit

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Re: Ignition cut out on me 4 times this morning
« Reply #28 on: October 20, 2017, 05:40:52 am »
Occam's razor the simplest explanation is probably the correct one.

In this case I took the tank off the night before while changing the tach cable and the next day ignition was cutting out. At lunch I took off the tank checked and cleaned the ignition switch connector which was right where it likely had been knocked when putting the tank back on in a hurry in the dark the night before, and the problem is gone. So anything to do with the charging system is probably a false flag.

Which is not to say nothing is wrong with the charging system. Stay tuned for the next installment in the continuing tale of The Resurrection of Red Peg in another thread.
« Last Edit: October 20, 2017, 05:45:27 am by RandomOrbit »
CB750k6 owned since 1991

Offline evinrude7

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Re: Ignition cut out on me 4 times this morning
« Reply #29 on: October 20, 2017, 06:02:00 am »
my bad on the "keep the revs up" dealio.  i missed that you were already doing so. 
cb750 k6 - ugly

Offline RandomOrbit

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Re: Ignition cut out on me 4 times this morning
« Reply #30 on: October 20, 2017, 06:23:27 am »
Quote
So no I haven't put the voltage meter on it at multiple RMPS, but I've ridden it enough to have a pretty good idea that an extra 1000 rpm for 45 minutes is not gong to make a remarkable difference.

I have and you are absolutely correct. Stock battery, regulator and rectifier with headlight always on. LOL





Interestingly that's about what my system looked like before I rode to work this morning, but not after I got here check this thread for the continuing saga.
CB750k6 owned since 1991

Offline TwoTired

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Re: Ignition cut out on me 4 times this morning
« Reply #31 on: October 20, 2017, 11:49:45 am »
Clearly you have doubts, or why would you be replacing the Vreg?

A year ago I didn't even get my bike out. Having owned it for 26 years It's only missed 2 riding seasons due not having the time and/or money to get it on the road. So when I got it out this year, it needed stuff. It's an old motorcycle. I'm sure all of us here know they ALWAYS need stuff. So over the course of this summer I have been chipping away at the list.

  • rebuild front brakes
  • rebuild carburetors
  • new air filter
  • new plugs
  • replace throttle cables
  • helicoil repair leaky fork leg drain plug
  • replace turn indicator relay (which worked most of the time, but would intermittently cut out)
  • replace points cover gasket
  • replace gas cap gasket
  • new clutch cable
  • new oil filter bolt
  • new tach & speedo cables

I've owned this bike for 26 years and done almost all of the work myself, so I know everything that's wrong with it is on me either due to neglect or, for instance over torquing a fork leg drain plug bolt, but I love this bike and regret having let it slide into disrepair, so I've been plugging away at it as time and funds allow, and so far this summer I've found that if I work on a system, it's probably best to replace what I can, because more than once I started working on something, like the brakes for instance and had to stop because I needed more parts. SO now I'm to the point where most of the mechanical issues are all in hand, and I'm moving onto less pressing issues, like  replacing the cracked turn indicator lenses. The charging system has been on my mind all summer, but it's been a low priority, because It's never required me to charge the battery manually, and it just keeps running, but it's the next thing I'm tackling. Less important than good working brakes, and more important than shiny fenders. So I know it needs work, and I figure if I'm going to work on it I might as well replace the 41 year old regulator and rectifier which I know to be something that gets problematic with age, and which I have never touched in the last 26 years. From what I've heard the electronic ones work better than stock. So that seems like a good idea. BUT I've been riding it this way for years, not really knowing it was a problem for a lot of them. I put several thousand miles on it this summer, and it hasn't been particularly problematic in spite of the fact that it is clearly not right. In those miles I've found that it doesn't seem to make a difference wether I go 10 miles and never get above 4000 rpm, or go 50 miles and push it straight to redline. At the end of the ride the battery is still in it's same workable, but sub optimal state. So no I haven't put the voltage meter on it at multiple RMPS, but I've ridden it enough to have a pretty good idea that an extra 1000 rpm for 45 minutes is not gong to make a remarkable difference.

Interesting rationalization, I suppose.  But, I'm trying to help you get the charging system back to proper function. All this dancing about the issue isn't fixing the problem statement.   And, "a pretty good idea" may work fine in your head.  But, it doesn't relay facts about just what is going on with your bike.

"Because it's old",  Just might be the poorest reason for replacement.   The axles are old.  Replace?  The carburetors are old.  Replace?  Restoration isn't about total replacement.  It is correcting the bits that actually need it.

I have about 10 of the 41 year old regulators and rectifiers, and they all work just fine.  I did adjust and refurbish two of the vregs, because someone tweaked it without knowing what they were doing.  They are nearly as reliable as a fender.  If you connect it properly, give the right battery voltage status and don't massage it with a sledge hammer, the vreg still does it's job.  Yes, I've encountered blown rectifiers.  Abuse in the form of reverse polarity connections can damage them.  The rectifier junctions, (essentially a rock or sand chip) simply don't degrade with time alone.  Usually takes human influence to bring about their demise.

rt's posts are relevant to his charging system, which is likely operating correctly.

I think it's apparent that yours doesn't work like his.  But, valid testing has been avoided for reasons I don't fully understand.

Good Luck!
Lloyd... (SOHC4 #11 Original Mail List)
72 500, 74 550, 75 550K, 75 550F, 76 550F, 77 550F X2, 78 550K, 77 750F X2, 78 750F, 79CX500, 85 700SC, GL1100

Those that learn from history are doomed to repeat it by those that don't learn from history.

Offline RandomOrbit

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Re: Ignition cut out on me 4 times this morning
« Reply #32 on: October 20, 2017, 12:09:40 pm »
I think it's apparent that yours doesn't work like his.  But, valid testing has been avoided for reasons I don't fully understand.

Time. I have a limited amount of time to work on my motorcycle. For a good part of the summer I was riding to work a couple days a week it with little or no maintenance going on because of work and family obligations that kept me busy most of the time. I was writing a list in my head of everything I knew my bike needed on my morning commutes and praying none of them broke before I got a minute to work on it. I was lucky the throttle cable broke when I was working on the bike instead of on my commute. Since those obligations eased up a bit at the end of July I've been able to chisel out a few hours almost every weekend to work on the bike and have made some steady progress, but I've also learned not to try to do too much in too little time, because when I get in a hurry, that's when I make stupid mistakes and break #$%*. So I made it through the list above plus a few basic maintenance chores I didn't bother to mention, and have only just now begun to think about the charging system, because in spite of the fact it clearly wasn't right, it wasn't wrong enough to cause me much in the way of problems.

So I ordered that part more or less on a whim because I knew this project was on my horizon, and from what I read, it works better than OEM parts, and honestly changing it out will probably take less time than diagnosing the old parts, and if in diagnosing them I discover I need it then I'm not going to want to wait another week to get it.
CB750k6 owned since 1991

Offline TwoTired

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Re: Ignition cut out on me 4 times this morning
« Reply #33 on: October 20, 2017, 12:43:40 pm »
I will mention that precisely diagnosing a faulty part before replacing it, is rather confidence inspiring (AHA!), and relieves the after thoughts about, "is it really fixed?".

Electrons may be invisible, but you can still track their movements (or not) about the bike.

Just saying.

Cheers,
Lloyd... (SOHC4 #11 Original Mail List)
72 500, 74 550, 75 550K, 75 550F, 76 550F, 77 550F X2, 78 550K, 77 750F X2, 78 750F, 79CX500, 85 700SC, GL1100

Those that learn from history are doomed to repeat it by those that don't learn from history.

Online seanbarney41

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Re: Ignition cut out on me 4 times this morning
« Reply #34 on: October 20, 2017, 01:25:39 pm »
Tt is exactly right, as usual if not always?  Out of 13 or so cb750s I have owned, and hundreds of thousands of miles, exactly zero needed new charging system parts.  All of them  have needed waiting harness help.  Unfortunately, this is more time consuming than swapping parts.
If it works good, it looks good...

Offline disco

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Re: Ignition cut out on me 4 times this morning
« Reply #35 on: October 20, 2017, 09:09:31 pm »
Another thought: I yanked the tank last night to install a new tach cable, and it was already getting dark when I put the tank back on. I should probably make sure I didn't pinch any wires.

How do know it’s not fuel related? You said the last thing you did was take the tank off, and you put it back in darkness.

Have you checked the fuel hose is not kinked? Take fuel hose off at the carbs and check flow. Better still whip off the carb bowl immediately after it dies. See if you’ve got any fuel in the bowl.
The fact it ‘pops’ after sitting for a while may possibly be that the carb bowls have slowly filled?
« Last Edit: October 20, 2017, 09:11:19 pm by disco »
1976 CB750 K6 Sapphire Blue
1972 CB750 K2 836 Orange Sunrise
1972 CB750 K2 Candy Red
1972 CB750 K2 Candy Gold'

Offline RandomOrbit

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Re: Ignition cut out on me 4 times this morning
« Reply #36 on: October 20, 2017, 09:36:19 pm »
How do know it’s not fuel related?

If you've ever run out of gas on any motorcycle with side draft carbs, you know that combustion doesn't just suddenly stop at 5000 rpm with no warning. It leans out slowly as the float bowls drain giving plenty of time to switch to reserve before a stall. Compare that to flicking the kill switch, and the difference is pretty obvious.

Also I know because I fixed it by cleaning the contacts on the ignition switch connectors yesterday on my lunch break.
CB750k6 owned since 1991

Online PeWe

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Re: Ignition cut out on me 4 times this morning
« Reply #37 on: October 21, 2017, 05:31:31 am »
Not an answer on this issue, more my believes in the Honda stock system.
I have a new cheap regulator-rectifier I’ll might use. But not before I have got the Honda CB750 charging system to work perfectly. Bad idiea to add something unknown on a bikes not verified electrical system. The bike has a new aftermarket main harness, old alternator not yet ohm measured coils+wires + old tegulator + rectifier + new battery leads + NOS k2 fuse box. I think I’ll add some relays too for ignition and Hi-lo.
Maybe stock will be the thing.
I know how and what to check thanks to threads were TwoTired has explained evertyhing  spiced with his entire soul!

Thanks TwoTired!!! :)
Per in Sweden
CB750 K6-76  970cc (Earlier 1005cc JMR Billet block on the shelf waiting for a comeback)
CB750 K2-75 Parts assembled to a stock K2

Updates of the CB750 K6 -1976
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,180468.msg2092136.html#msg2092136
The billet block build thread
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,49438.msg1863571.html#msg1863571
CB750 K2 -1975  build thread
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,168243.msg1948381.html#msg1948381
K2 engine build thread. For a complete CB750 -75
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,180088.msg2088008.html#msg2088008
Carb jetting, a long story Mikuni TMR32
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,179479.msg2104967.html#msg2104967

Offline disco

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Re: Ignition cut out on me 4 times this morning
« Reply #38 on: October 21, 2017, 06:04:56 am »
Sounds like you got it all figured out
1976 CB750 K6 Sapphire Blue
1972 CB750 K2 836 Orange Sunrise
1972 CB750 K2 Candy Red
1972 CB750 K2 Candy Gold'

Offline RandomOrbit

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Re: Ignition cut out on me 4 times this morning
« Reply #39 on: October 21, 2017, 07:22:27 am »
Sounds like you got it all figured out

Yes the reason I started this thread on Thursday was to get some help making sure I could get home alright after work on Thursday. I spent some time on my lunch hour cleaning the affected contacts, and the ignition has not cut out again. So it served it's purpose.

All the stuff about the charging system that came into this thread, while valid was not immediately relevant to this thread. I mean it could have been, but as it turned out it wasn't. That's why I started a separate thread to talk about that. By the time I got to work Thursday morning I had already ruled out fuel.
CB750k6 owned since 1991