Topic: Saddam Hussein - hanging is BS

[ofreen]

We seem to have a knack for repeatedly picking them. By now you would think we would stop meddling.

We meddle because it is all about making rich men even richer.

[kghost]

We seem to have a knack for repeatedly picking them. By now you would think we would stop meddling.

We meddle because it is all about making rich men even richer.

Very true until the feds kick down your river oaks door and haul your a$$ to the houston pokie. 2 milliion dollar bond later your out so no worries eh?

[Terry in Australia]

We seem to have a knack for repeatedly picking them. By now you would think we would stop meddling.

We meddle because it is all about making rich men even richer.

Very true until the feds kick down your river oaks door and haul your a$$ to the houston pokie. 2 milliion dollar bond later your out so no worries eh?

Or if your name is Dick Cheese, er, Dick Cheney I mean, you can shoot people just like ol Saddam was supposed to have done, and get away with it? Geez, Russell Crowe was arrested just for throwing a phone at an uppity hotel clerk! 

[Rsnip988]

Conspiracy theories generally work against scientific principles because the lack of evidence for the conspiracy is presumed to be evidence that a conspiracy exists (i.e., The perfect conspiracy leaves no evidence; therefore, if we have no evidence, we must have a perfect conspiracy.)  Lacking adequate evidence to propose a theory, the conspiracy theorist nevertheless proposes a theory and then collects evidence to support that theory.  Having made a prejudgement, the theorist approaches all new evidence with prejudice.  Furthermore, there is a financial incentive for conspiracy theorist because conspiracy theory sells in the form of books, appearances etc.  One writing a book about a conspiracy would certainly present evidence only as it support the theory.

The same could be said for any "anti-religous" "scientific theory"  they start off with the prejudgement that there is no GOD and look for evidence to prove their points, and ignore the evidence pointing to the cantrary

sorry for the thread jack, I dont think he's dead either but i wouldnt call it a conspiracy

[Klark Kent]

Anyone else think there needs to be a debate forum?

clearly we have one.
where else would you recieve unsolicited explanations of occams razor and the scientific method.
and then-
have someone say that they are incompatible theories because the "simplest explanation" is not always so simple (magic bullet theory) and no hypothesis has ever been granted theory status because we couldnt prove its negative (creationism) that just dont make no sense.

where else indeed
-KK

PS to BS
just fyi that time i was refering to you BS, but the time before when i said the reason you dont have better video of saddam being hung is because it was focus grouped to be only acceptable as an internet bootleg.  just like the dick in a box sketch that nbc has no problem airing on the internet but censors on tv.  and they can give it to us all raw and stuff like from a cell phone camera, bcause theyve taught us to accept that as reality.  we've been persuaded to accept all sorts of "reality tv" production values to the extent they dont need to fake anything as well as they would have had to do the moon landing.  perhaps, I SAID, the population (not BS) has been fully trained to shun any questioning of its validity as the first step down a slippery slope of crack pot theorizing based on their bias and a desire to make money writing books.  yeah books are where the money is.  yeah people are in the desert right now dying so that these fat cat conspiracy theorists can rake in those big a$$ book dollar$.  geez man.  all i said was moon landing and you address a tirade.  please relax yourself.

[Rsnip988]

It should have a poll question with it too
BS or not

[Klark Kent]

good idea!
-KK

[Rsnip988]

too bad i didnt think of that 

[oldbiker]

considering that the shots were taken by Elvis, they weren't that bad.

[Tim.]

Nothing like a little execution to distract people's attention from the question of whether this should all have happened in the first place.

[burmashave]

Anyone else think there needs to be a debate forum?

clearly we have one.
where else would you recieve unsolicited explanations of occams razor and the scientific method.
and then-
have someone say that they are incompatible theories because the "simplest explanation" is not always so simple (magic bullet theory) and no hypothesis has ever been granted theory status because we couldnt prove its negative (creationism) that just dont make no sense.

where else indeed
-KK

PS to BS
just fyi that time i was refering to you BS, but the time before when i said the reason you dont have better video of saddam being hung is because it was focus grouped to be only acceptable as an internet bootleg.  just like the dick in a box sketch that nbc has no problem airing on the internet but censors on tv.  and they can give it to us all raw and stuff like from a cell phone camera, bcause theyve taught us to accept that as reality.  we've been persuaded to accept all sorts of "reality tv" production values to the extent they dont need to fake anything as well as they would have had to do the moon landing.  perhaps, I SAID, the population (not BS) has been fully trained to shun any questioning of its validity as the first step down a slippery slope of crack pot theorizing based on their bias and a desire to make money writing books.  yeah books are where the money is.  yeah people are in the desert right now dying so that these fat cat conspiracy theorists can rake in those big a$$ book dollar$.  geez man.  all i said was moon landing and you address a tirade.  please relax yourself.

KK, I don't think it was a tirade.  I thought it was pretty calm and lacking in attack.  I apologize if it wasn't.   I was just trying to explain how I come to my own conclusions, while at the same time giving everyone a sound basis for making their own (hence, Occam's Razor and the scientific method).  I was also trying to explain my belief that taking any position, official or otherwise, is not evidence per se of opposition to dissent. 

By the way, disproof of competing theories has not proven neither a reliable nor an efficient means to finding the truth.  Disproof creates the slippery slope of always disproving each new, and sometimes incredible, theory.  Also, theories with minimal evidence often become the hardest to disprove.  Note that our courts of law are not designed to function in a mode of proof of innocence. 

[Rushoid]

So, I'm confused. That's not Saddam in the video, but actually BurmaShave? Then how is he making all of these posts? 

[Bodi]

The video on the news showing SH being led to the gallows and shown the rope... you can bet that camera was kept running and that Herr Shrub got a complete hanging video for his amusement - good quality too! -  post haste.
The question isn't who took and uploaded the crappy youtube version and whether he's a criminal. The question is about the idiot yahoo "guards" yelling and insulting Saddam during his last moments. They should be held responsible for any anti-USA reaction from the world. If the execution was done properly there wouldn't be any reason not to show it freely to prove he was treated reasonably. His crimes are pretty much inarguable and in a part of the world where adultresses get stoned to death and thieves have their hands chopped off he deserved to hang. The way it was done looks like the end result of a kangaroo court... which it was, of course, but you don't have to make it so obvious.

[Terry in Australia]

Well I haven't seen the video, nor do I want to witness this ghoulish spectacle, but to answer Tom's original question, the video wasn't an official video record of Saddams execution, but footage covertly taken with a cell phone camera by an official in attendance, who's now residing in "Shiite Creek", I believe. Here's the real story:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070103/ap_on_re_mi_ea/iraq_saddam_video

Cheers, Terry.

[Rocking-M]

Nothing like a little execution to distract people's attention from the question of whether this should all have happened in the first place.

I'm not distracted Tintin. The uS troops should never have been there. Bush is a pussy with power, or should I say, a pussy
to whom the strings of power are tied. It's pretty sickening that our news media likes to play up the death pictures of this man.
A man who was probably no better but certainly no worse than Bush.

[ElCheapo]

Well I haven't seen the video, nor do I want to witness this ghoulish spectacle, but to answer Tom's original question, the video wasn't an official video record of Saddams execution, but footage covertly taken with a cell phone camera by an official in attendance, who's now residing in "Shiite Creek", I believe. Here's the real story:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070103/ap_on_re_mi_ea/iraq_saddam_video

Cheers, Terry.

As always, when the facts start coming in....things look a bit different.

What kind of goul would video this anyway? I would think of it, but not do it.  

While they were busy hanging people they could have used a tack at the top and hung Bush on the other end of the rope. Justice is supposed to be blind. I mean if you sell an illegal gun on the street, and some kid kills someone with it. They will most likely find you and you will do time just the same. 

[Uncle Ernie]

Well, I need to check in more often! this is fun.  I'm reminded of the quote, "Just because I'm paranoid doesn't mean they're not really out to get me."
The lack of quality video sure makes sense to me.  No one was in control.  Saddam was lucky he didn't get turned over to a crowd with bricks in their hands.  All these folks are surviving on a level most of us can't imagine. They're lucky to get electricity for an hour a day- you want lights and high def recording? HAH!  How about a studio and a host ala Pat Sajak or Brian Seacrest? 
Rev. Shave- preach on brother.  You have an impressive brain.  BTW- IF it was a gov't conspiracy, that would probably be the most convincing way to video it.  Just my opinion there.

[burmashave]

Nothing like a little execution to distract people's attention from the question of whether this should all have happened in the first place.

I'm not distracted Tintin. The uS troops should never have been there. Bush is a pussy with power, or should I say, a pussy
to whom the strings of power are tied. It's pretty sickening that our news media likes to play up the death pictures of this man.
A man who was probably no better but certainly no worse than Bush.

Man, are we immune to the horrors committed by Saddam Hussein?  If all the accusations against President Bush were to be proven true, he would earn prison time.  Take a gander at U.S. War Crimes Ambassador Reviews Saddam Hussein's Criminality.  Admittedly, this comes from an "official source;" however, many charges are easily corroborated.  We knew, long before his invasion of Kuwait that Hussein had used gas attacks against the Iranians and against his own Kurds.  We saw what he did during his invasion and retreat from Kuwait.  We knew he had drained the southern swamps of Iraq.  These are just a few of the things we knew via external observation.  After invasion, we heard the oft repeated stories of women who watched their children thrown from second storey windows; men who had their tongues cut off for saying something that was not positive about Hussein; and of course, we heard about atrocities such as the rape rooms run by his sons.

How can we equate Bush to Hussein, or to Hitler for that matter?  There is no horror here that can begin to compare to what subjects suffered in Iraq and Germany.  To say that there is a valid comparison is to demean the unspeakable suffering endured by tens of millions.  By the way, the lefties Mao and Stalin are better choices for comparison in the pure evil category.  Both made Hitler and Hussein look like pikers.  As I recall, Pol Pot reigns supreme in terms of percentage of countrymen murdered.

[edit 3 Jan: typo]

[Klark Kent]

Nothing like a little execution to distract people's attention from the question of whether this should all have happened in the first place.

I'm not distracted Tintin. The uS troops should never have been there. Bush is a pussy with power, or should I say, a pussy
to whom the strings of power are tied. It's pretty sickening that our news media likes to play up the death pictures of this man.
A man who was probably no better but certainly no worse than Bush.

Take a gander at U.S. War Crimes Ambassador Reviews Saddam Hussein's Criminality. 

this is also a very good analysis of pre-gulfwartwo iraq

and much like hussein,pol pot couldnt have done it without us
-KK

[Terry in Australia]

Geez BS don't let those compliments about your writing style or your huge brain go to your head mate, if you knew your history you'd also know that Saddam was installed by the US, and that most of the larger western nations were complicit in the gassing of the Kurds and the Iranians, and while he was committing atrocities against his own people with US supplied arms and equipment, the "Worlds Police" were busy looking the other way.

GW invaded a sovereign nation for no plausible reason, and in so doing he violated the UN mandate, he's sent over 3000 young American boys to horrible deaths in Iraq by providing insufficient training and poor equipment to what should be the best military force in the world, (but it aint) and he's responsible for creating a civil war which has killed hundreds of thousands of Iraqis.

To make things worse, he disbanded the Iraqi military who were willing to support the coalition forces as early as the day after Iraq was invaded and the Barth Party was deposed, which would have allowed the coalition forces presence in the region to be reduced to a "caretaker" role, he allowed the countries infrastructure to be destroyed by both the coalition forces and the "insurgents", he allowed crooked defence contractors to rip off the American taxpayer to the tune of billions of dollars, and he caused massive instability in the oil producing nations, resulting in the 100% increase in the price of oil which has severely damaged the economies of both the western world, and developing third world countries but has coincidentally increased his own personal wealth by an enormous amount. (he is an oil man, after all)

The tourism industry world-wide has suffered since 9/11, but particularly since the invasion, airlines have gone broke, and countries relying on tourism are really suffering. He allowed Saddam to be tried in a "Kangaroo Court" of an opposing Muslim sect for crimes that the US and other western nations were just as guilty of, and he had him hanged real quick before Saddam could blab to the media about how much help he got from the US to commit all these crimes.

Did Saddam deserve to be put to death? Yeah, without a doubt. Did GW and his band of cronies have the rigfht to invade Iraq and have Saddam put to death? No farkin way! Like Bob said, when will the US learn not to meddle in other's affairs? It's not like the poor people in the US couldn't do with the billions of dollars that are being spent every day on this bullshiite war, while Osama Bin Laden (who was also installed, equipped and trained by the US, by the way) sits comfortably  in his cave plotting the next atrocity against you guys!      

[ElCheapo]

WHOOOO HOOOOO I HAVE STIRRED THE POT  Now I will go back and read 

[ElCheapo]

It appears that people all over the world have forgotten the very important machine that was needed to Osama alive during this "hunt" for Osama ....

I will bet they have one these dialysis machines in every third cave.  Along with the power to suppport it.

I would think looking for the guy hooked to one of these machines in his country would be a bit like hunting for a Ferarri in a junk yard  They are not exactly powered by Camel shyte 

[Klark Kent]

...and the machine responsible for keeping W alive:

-KK

[ElCheapo]

...and the machine responsible for keeping W alive:

-KK

BUWAAHAHAHAHAHA 

[burmashave]

Geez BS don't let those compliments about your writing style or your huge brain go to your head mate, if you knew your history you'd also know that Saddam was installed by the US, and that most of the larger western nations were complicit in the gassing of the Kurds and the Iranians, and while he was committing atrocities against his own people with US supplied arms and equipment, the "Worlds Police" were busy looking the other way.

What compliments?  I must have missed them.  

I didn't say that George Bush is a fine fellow, nor did I claim that he had justification for war.  I did say that we demean the horrors that others endured when we comapare him with Hussein.  Accusations against Bush, even if proven true, would in no way make him comparable to Hussein.  I also thought that a discussion of Hussein's crimes fit the current discussion, and I limited my post to a comparison between the two leaders.

GW invaded a sovereign nation for no plausible reason, and in so doing he violated the UN mandate, he's sent over 3000 young American boys to horrible deaths in Iraq by providing insufficient training and poor equipment to what should be the best military force in the world, (but it aint) and he's responsible for creating a civil war which has killed hundreds of thousands of Iraqis.

To make things worse, he disbanded the Iraqi military who were willing to support the coalition forces as early as the day after Iraq was invaded and the Barth Party was deposed, which would have allowed the coalition forces presence in the region to be reduced to a "caretaker" role, he allowed the countries infrastructure to be destroyed by both the coalition forces and the "insurgents", he allowed crooked defence contractors to rip off the American taxpayer to the tune of billions of dollars, and he caused massive instability in the oil producing nations, resulting in the 100% increase in the price of oil which has severely damaged the economies of both the western world, and developing third world countries but has coincidentally increased his own personal wealth by an enormous amount. (he is an oil man, after all)

The tourism industry world-wide has suffered since 9/11, but particularly since the invasion, airlines have gone broke, and countries relying on tourism are really suffering. He allowed Saddam to be tried in a "Kangaroo Court" of an opposing Muslim sect for crimes that the US and other western nations were just as guilty of, and he had him hanged real quick before Saddam could blab to the media about how much help he got from the US to commit all these crimes.

Did Saddam deserve to be put to death? Yeah, without a doubt. Did GW and his band of cronies have the rigfht to invade Iraq and have Saddam put to death? No farkin way! Like Bob said, when will the US learn not to meddle in other's affairs? It's not like the poor people in the US couldn't do with the billions of dollars that are being spent every day on this bullshiite war, while Osama Bin Laden (who was also installed, equipped and trained by the US, by the way) sits comfortably  in his cave plotting the next atrocity against you guys!     

As I stated, even if all of the above were proven true, Bush would in no way compare to Hussein.  I disagree with most of your points above; however, I don't think this is a good forum for that discussion; we can extend this discussion offline if you'd want, but I think we have beaten it pretty good already. 

[edit 3 Jan: typo]