Topic: E Tu Brute? 1977 CB550K Restomod

[flyinelvis]

Ordered, thanks...

[SOHC4 Cafe Racer Fan]

Make sure to move the tank around, rotating and inverting it even as the epoxy sets.  You do not want a pool at the bottom.

[flyinelvis]

Make sure to move the tank around, rotating and inverting it even as the epoxy sets.  You do not want a pool at the bottom.

Thanks for the advice, well received and appreciated...

[Farley121]

So things have been moving along slowly, but steadily. 

A co-worker of mine has an old electric dryer from which he has removed the heating coils.  He took my tank, dumped in a handful of nuts, bolts, chain, etc and tumbled it in the pillow laden "tumbler".  Came out very clean.  It's currently full of vinegar for a few days before coating.

I want to go the Caswell route.  Is there enough product in the linked sealer to do a 550 tank?  I'd hate to come up short...

https://www.caswellplating.com/epoxy-gas-tank-sealer/caswell-epoxy-gas-tank-sealer-mini-kit-up-to-5-gal.html

Yes, I did my 78 tank with it.  More than enough.

[flyinelvis]

While my Caswell has arrived, my tank isn’t quite ready for prime time, so it’s currently back in vinegar soak mode.  So while I await tank sealing 101, I’ll turn my attention back to the engine and cleaning 40 year old gaskets. 

It’s obvious to me that I will need to remove the cylinder studs and replace as there is no way I’m going to be able to clean the base gasket material with them in place.  Can anyone recommend a quality set of studs?  Not looking for ARP quality, but a strong material that won’t require many stretch cycles to seat.

My garage is currently an inferno, but trying to make little steps to keep the project moving forward.  I see engine rebuild as a fall/winter project...

[SOHC4 Cafe Racer Fan]

APE or Cycle X
http://www.cyclexchange.net/500-550-Hi-Perf.htm

These are heavy duty, heat treated studs.

[SF]

ARP = Cheap investment


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[calj737]

I haven't seen ARP brand studs for our motors, but APE definitely makes them for the 550. Yes, they're heavy duty rated, but they are better than stock and you can install them now and forget them eternally.

[calj737]

While my Caswell has arrived, my tank isn’t quite ready for prime time, so it’s currently back in vinegar soak mode.  So while I await tank sealing 101, I’ll turn my attention back to the engine and cleaning 40 year old gaskets. 

It’s obvious to me that I will need to remove the cylinder studs and replace as there is no way I’m going to be able to clean the base gasket material with them in place.

Once you clean the tank with vinegar, it will flash rust immediately unless you neutralize that, and fog the interior. You can grab a gallon of Prep N Etch or EvapoRust and hit the tank afterwards with either (even in lieu of the vinegar). Since its so dang hot and humid here in the Piedmont, add just a capful of Acetone to the Caswell when you mix it. Stir it in really. This will help prevent the Caswell from setting too quickly in the heat. It will also make it run a bit better inside the tank, insuring slightly better coverage.

Its really important you get the underside of the top of the tank treated too. Rust forms there almost immediately as you use gas and allow the condensation and vapors space above the fluid line. Storing a tank should be done 100% full, or 100% empty to prevent condensation on the underside.

Easiest way to remove the head gasket is to drop the head and cylinders to a machine shop. Have the shop mill the head flat (it needs it anyway after 40 years) and this will clear that gasket in seconds, plus you get a perfectly machined flat surface. Ditto for the cylinders. Take note of the total "surfacing" in 0.00x as the locating dowels between the head and cylinders need to be trimmed down this same amount (or the head/cylinders won't sit flush).

For the base gasket, if you are splitting the cases, a soda blast or bead blast knocks them off lickety-split. Else, its chems, scraping, goo remover, and sweating your man sack off in the inferno. Do your best to prevent the debris from falling into the case (stuff aluminum foil wads in there to plug the holes) and avoid scarring the aluminum.

[flyinelvis]

APE or Cycle X
http://www.cyclexchange.net/500-550-Hi-Perf.htm

These are heavy duty, heat treated studs.

Wow!  Terrible website but cool parts!  Bookmarked.  Thanks for sharing...

ARP = Cheap investment

I do have an “in” at ARP, perhaps I should look into them, further...

[calj737]

ARP = Cheap investment

I do have an “in” at ARP, perhaps I should look into them, further...

They make some gorgeous stuff! It would be really cool if they made their stainless studs for our motors since the studs are exposed to the atmosphere and the stainless would make them corrosion resistant.

You can just see the ARP 12pt nut on the stud on the picture. That's an APE stud, (black oxide) but an ARP nut. On that motor I used ARP nuts, bolts, and studs (intake and exhaust) everywhere possible. But could not find a stock stud in their inventory to match the cylinder studs in our motors. 

[flyinelvis]

Cal, your points are well taken.  We’re hopeful of a quick coating of the tank following the final clean.  Gotcha on the inner tank top, makes complete sense.  I live in the piedmont of NC, I know all too well the issues with heat and humidity.  Acetone shot sounds reasonable.

I think one of my main concerns (never having sealed a tank) is the petcock port.  I understand the Saran Wrap at the filer hole, but the Playdoh in the petcock port has me a bit dumbfounded.  After curing, will there be a physical seal from the Caswell that will need to be drilled out or chipped away once the Playdoh is removed? 

Inquiring minds need to know...

[calj737]

I don't care what you use, how you plug it, Caswell will seep into the petcock hole. It has to so you can drain the excess out of the tank. You can't get enough out through the filler neck as the interior of the neck is taller than the underside (think a sleeve that passes through the top, theres a "wall" from the neck on the inside).

I just run a twist drill slowly in the petcock after the Caswell has cured a day or two. May also want to run a die nut one the petcock threads to remove any Caswell on the outside of the petcock bung.

I know you're down in Henderson; I'm up in Richmond. 

[SF]

ARP = Cheap investment


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My bad, APE studs and ARP 12 points


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[flyinelvis]

I don't care what you use, how you plug it, Caswell will seep into the petcock hole. It has to so you can drain the excess out of the tank. You can't get enough out through the filler neck as the interior of the neck is taller than the underside (think a sleeve that passes through the top, theres a "wall" from the neck on the inside).

I just run a twist drill slowly in the petcock after the Caswell has cured a day or two. May also want to run a die nut one the petcock threads to remove any Caswell on the outside of the petcock bung.

I know you're down in Henderson; I'm up in Richmond. 

Ahh, it's becoming much clearer now, thanks for the tips.  Never thought about draining off excess.

Actually in Huntersville, just north of Charlotte.  Regardless, it's hotter than Hell right now.  Been pedaling my road bike at lunch, easy to lose 5-lbs in water weight in an hour.  Storms are quite entertaining this time of year, too...

[calj737]

Right, Huntersville, not Henderson. I pass by all the damn time and you have yet to host me at Mac’s! What a one-way bodger you are. Just wait until I rat you out on the forum 

[flyinelvis]

Right, Huntersville, not Henderson. I pass by all the damn time and you have yet to host me at Mac’s! What a one-way bodger you are. Just wait until I rat you out on the forum 

Your wouldn’t dare rat me out on the forum!  You are more than welcome at my Garagemahall!  Let me know next time thru and I’ll host you on a tour of our race shop.  It’s not the ‘good ol’ boys’ sport anymore...


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[calj737]

Blowing through next weekend, Sunday probably. That may not work out on your end given it’s a weekend and all. I recently met a guy who has worked for 30 years for Hendricks Team. That is a really cool stretch of town up there!

[flyinelvis]

Blowing through next weekend, Sunday probably. That may not work out on your end given it’s a weekend and all. I recently met a guy who has worked for 30 years for Hendricks Team. That is a really cool stretch of town up there!

So are you talking Sunday 8/12 or 8/19?  We're off on the VFR's to the foothills on the morning of the 12th, back around 15:00.  Love to hook up (there are better spots than Mac's!) this time or in the future.  I have a step-son in Richmond, maybe we could meet up there at some point, too.

Ha!  HMS is one of our nemesis.  I did contract work with them for close to 20-years.  Randy Dorton was a mentor and strong backer of the program I ran.  His (and the others) was a tragic loss for the entire industry.  They've had a tough year or two but never count them out.  Do you recall who you met?

[calj737]

8/19. This weekend I'm down to Charleston and back to see my #2 son.

I was introduced to the HMS guy as "Snake". Pretty sure he works in the fabrication dept. Decent enough guy, but he rides a V Twin and drives a Dodge diesel so I had little use for him outside of some general "civility"  He's a close mate of a close mate who lives on Watery. Down there next weekend to help him with some fab/welding/repairs of his agri- vehicles.

[flyinelvis]

8/19. This weekend I'm down to Charleston and back to see my #2 son....Down there next weekend to help him with some fab/welding/repairs of his agri- vehicles.

If you come thru this way, please let me know.  Lunch/Dinner on me.

Now time to get back on subject w/this 550 build....

[RAFster122s]

Sorry my tablet's spelling corrector is stupid and I cannot configure it to not autocorrect, sorry for being unclear.



Can I ask..playdough in the petcock opening on a later tank works for sealing a tank with Caswells or POR15 when coating the tank and after you are satisfied it has coated the interior you pull the playdough to dump the excess liner? Reason I say later is... a 74 cb550 has the petcock with fuel bowl and round strainer/filter and they bolt on with a couple screws, later tanks/models have a threaded bung for the petcock's nut.
What can you use to seal off the petcock bung when cleaning a tank with acetone to strip old liner?

[flyinelvis]

Sorry, not certain exactly what it is you’re asking.  I mentioned the Playdoh as it was discussed in the Caswell literature.  We have still yet to have coated the tank as internal cleaning continues.   Possibly Cal or other could jump in and answer...

[flyinelvis]

With Hurricane Florence blowing thru, it would be a perfect time to work on the Brute.  Unfortunately, just about everything we own is stuffed into the garage for safe keeping as we wait her out. So no room at the Inn.  Oh well...

So I was prepared to order a set of rearsets from Cognito Moto but on closer inspection, he doesn’t list the ‘77 or ‘78 as being compatible.  I dropped him an email, but figured I’d ask here.  If they indeed are not compatible, has anyone come up against this and if so, what was your solution?

Over on the CB500/550/650 Facebook page, I came up with a .dfx file for an electronics tray.  It was laser cut out of 0.050-material last week and to be bent this week.  Looks like a nice design and included mounts for the OEM rectifier and starter solenoid.  I’ll post up pics when its ready.  If anyone is interested in the file, I can put you in touch with the designer.  Good guy to be willing to share.

On the same page, there was a guy selling engine stands out of 1-in box tubing.  Should be arriving soon.  Again, looks like a quality design.  Once again, if anyone is interested, I’ll point you in his direction.

My tank has been thouroughly cleaned and we Caswell treated it a couple of weeks back.  While it initially went well, we did have a hiccup or two.  Once mixed, the epoxy was thicker than molasses.  We poured it in and did the 20-minute tank flip dance.  The temps were ~70*F and in retrospect we should have lacquer thinned the mix as there were some nickel and dime sized areas along the sides of the tank that we missed.  It was curing rapidly so we sat the tank on one side for 15-mins then flipped to the other.  We still have a few small areas that didn’t completely coat, but from what I can tell, the top interior behind and around the fueling hole was completely covered, as were the lower seams at the tank bottom.  I’m not too worried b/c the untreated areas should be under (non-ethanol) fuel most times and if the tank survived this long, it’ll survive a bit longer.

The custom top triple is coming along nicely and after some back and forth with the machinist, I think we’re going to have a really nice piece for the Gixer forks.  De-tabbing of the frame should commence soon.  Hopefully Flo will leave and cooler temps will settle in and I can consider garage time once again...

[flyinelvis]

So the electronics tray came out very well.  The designer obviously knew his craft well.  Laser cut and bent, it fits very nicely.  Once de-tabbed, it'll fit like a glove.

I also received my engine stand.  Very nice.  Simplicity and functionality combined.

I heard from 4into1 this week and ordered my APE studs.  Should be arriving soon.  Not certain when I'll actually have the opportunity to install, for now I'll set them aside with my other seals, gaskets, etc.

I have been in LIMITED touch with Devin at Cognito Moto concerning the Tarozzi rearsets.  Devin is a man of few words and I get one sentence responses.  So this is a 1977 frame and according to Devin I need a pre '77 splined rear brake shaft.  Shorter in length than the one I have.  Sounds like the shaft tube needs to be shortened as well.  So I'm looking for that shaft if anyone should have a spare they are willing to part with.