Topic: Aftermarket frame - group purchase

[eli]

Thanks.
Simon, would you consider something like member mec did? An Egli-copy, but different steering angle and swingarm length? With that design, it would be easy to lower the engine or put it a few cm more in front to be more flexible with the position of the swingarm rotation point. Would still be a period style frame with twin shocks...
As many said, that one is easy and affordable to make. Maybe I try that design first on my jig...

[simon#42]

spine frames can work , this is a 1981 250 waddon  i made six of these a few years ago . it handled very well , my local track had a race for pre 1989 1300cc bikes .the track is fast and does favour the big bikes .the grid is mostly rc30´s and gsx1100r based race bikes with about 20 smaller bikes making up the grid . after i won the championship they split the classes due to complaints from the big bike riders , as i said it handled very well .

[eli]

That looks like one from Tony Foale....

[simon#42]

it was designed by an ex foal employee ,  it worked much better than tonys bikes though . was second at daytona and at a couple of grand prix .

[bwaller]

Tidy little racebike Simon, melike!

Not sure how you find all these pieces George but I enjoyed that one. Lang was at the top of his game then. Mike Rieck has a Lang connection too.

[MessnerMoto]

Probably that backbone design is close to best weight-stiffness ratio you can achieve and is probably the simplest to make regarding fabrication and cost. Nice smart design

....regarding German TUV from what I hear it is around 300eu? Maybe I have wrong information. Also I heard that there it is not that difficult to pass and it takes one day to do it?

...for registration... lets say this... if you come with old bike to regular technical inspection... who would now how the bike looked 40 years ago. At least where I live it works....

[eli]

....regarding German TUV from what I hear it is around 300eu? Maybe I have wrong information. Also I heard that there it is not that difficult to pass and it takes one day to do it?

If the bike/frame was street legal once, it is not more then 100€ and 2 hours or so. If you built the frame yourself (they take it as that even if you only changed something on the original frame between head and swingarm), it's almost impossible. They want a couple of similar made frames to crash them to find out if your creation is safe. But even if you built them their 5 frames only to get 4 of them crashed, it would still be a new vehicle, so the engine you're using would have to pass newest norms etc.
Impossible 

[MessnerMoto]

....regarding German TUV from what I hear it is around 300eu? Maybe I have wrong information. Also I heard that there it is not that difficult to pass and it takes one day to do it?

If the bike/frame was street legal once, it is not more then 100€ and 2 hours or so. If you built the frame yourself (they take it as that even if you only changed something on the original frame between head and swingarm), it's almost impossible. They want a couple of similar made frames to crash them to find out if your creation is safe. But even if you built them their 5 frames only to get 4 of them crashed, it would still be a new vehicle, so the engine you're using would have to pass newest norms etc.
Impossible 

Are you sure in that. Because like Yoss wrote there is a lot of people reexporting bikes to Germany just to pass TUV because it is easier... bikes with have modifications. I see also there is a lot of customizers in Germany(probably the most in EU), not just for bikes but also for cars, and they are doing some pretty heavy modifications to frames. Also I know a guy who has custom shop for Harleys in Germany and he is doing some crazy modifications including frames. He said to me it cost him around 300eu to pass all the things... And he is doing customization beyond recognizing original bike.

[eli]

....regarding German TUV from what I hear it is around 300eu? Maybe I have wrong information. Also I heard that there it is not that difficult to pass and it takes one day to do it?

If the bike/frame was street legal once, it is not more then 100€ and 2 hours or so. If you built the frame yourself (they take it as that even if you only changed something on the original frame between head and swingarm), it's almost impossible. They want a couple of similar made frames to crash them to find out if your creation is safe. But even if you built them their 5 frames only to get 4 of them crashed, it would still be a new vehicle, so the engine you're using would have to pass newest norms etc.
Impossible 

Are you sure in that. Because like Yoss wrote there is a lot of people reexporting bikes to Germany just to pass TUV because it is easier... bikes with have modifications. I see also there is a lot of customizers in Germany(probably the most in EU), not just for bikes but also for cars, and they are doing some pretty heavy modifications to frames. Also I know a guy who has custom shop for Harleys in Germany and he is doing some crazy modifications including frames. He said to me it cost him around 300eu to pass all the things... And he is doing customization beyond recognizing original bike.

Can I have the contact to that Harley guy? Yes, you can modify almost everything on your bike and get TÜV - but it still has to be the original main/front frame with it's frame number, which was once registered before or has an EU-certificate. You can change the rear part under the seat quite freely, if it's done correctly. A typical example is the hardtail mod on Harleys. I know bikes where there were small modifications done to fit another engine which means modifying the front part of the frame. Those welds on the main frame have to be done by a certified welder with certain papers. Trickier is the change from twin-shocks to cantilever. I doubt I would find an engineer nowadays who legalizes such a change. Maybe there is a TÜV-engineer who "has a blind eye" for certain mods on the main frame, I wouldn't deny that. If you reeeaaally know him well....
But if I come to visit them with my own recreation of an egli-type frame and my genuine ELI-001 framenumber  , I have to pass all those tests on strength, welding and so on (maybe a proper computer analysis of the frame strength done by some certified engineer will do)the costs will rise to thousands, maybe ten-thousands...and the bike will be a new bike with all the safety and ecological requirements of today. There is no way to get a CB750SOHC engine in a newly built frame as far as I know. But I would love to get in contact with someone with the right connections

[754]

The procedure to sell frames is very tough.
 Getting a frame certified for personal use is much easier I imagine.

In the early 90,s a  Harley frame builder from here  sought and got TUV approval for Germany. AS FAR as I know the first to do so in Germany, made it easy to sell frames and lots of them.. as I recall it involved testing a few frames.
I at one point was over there checking out the distributor, it was HAAS in Stockstadt..

I suspect if you find an engineer to Sign off on a personal frame, it would be easier with the right people..

[Sam Green Racing]

How about this one guys. Made in the UK for Honda France with the permission of Honda themselves.
5 frames were made for Honda France and they went on to a few World Endurance Championship wins.

[MessnerMoto]

probably if you now right people that does the job

[Sam Green Racing]

They were made by Spondon but they are no longer in business but there is a former employee that makes Spondon frames but I don't think he worked for them when these frames were made in the early 70s.
5 frames were made for Honda France, I found out where #1 and #2 are. Two got crashed beyond repair and we're still looking for the other one.
2 other frames were made #6 and #7 for the then reigning World Endurance Champion Peter Darvill.
His team in the IOM still have one and the other one was sold to a friend of mine in Texas.
Apart from around the head stock and the swingarm, they look much like a stock frame but they sure did the business in the day.

[eli]

I found out where #1 and #2 are.

You also found out where the shoes and the cup of tea are  I love this storage room: an absolutely precious bike and random stuff, alltogether...

In the early 90,s a  Harley frame builder from here  sought and got TUV approval for Germany.

Frank, you said it: in the early 90s. Things changed in Germany, especially since 2007 they tightend the rules.

[754]

Actually nobody in Germany could sell a custom Harley frame in Germany, they were the first to do so..

[Sam Green Racing]

I found out where #1 and #2 are.

You also found out where the shoes and the cup of tea are  I love this storage room: an absolutely precious bike and random stuff, alltogether...

eli, I'm sorry but your quote went right over my head.

[eli]

Well, there is a pair of shoes in front of the bike. And I identified the object on the gas tank as a cup. But as I look at it more closely, both round shapes on top of the tank are for fuel, aren't they? The resolution is not very high...

[simon#42]

well i got it !    sam i thought peter darvil died about 10 years ago .

[bwaller]

As mentioned, I doubt any inspector here would know the difference between a stock frame and a banana.

If it's a one-off frame for personal use cut out the stamped VIN # from the stock steering head and tack it on the new head. Likewise carefully remove the alum plate and glue/rivot on.

[livefast_dieold]

As mentioned, I doubt any inspector here would know the difference between a stock frame and a banana.

If it's a one-off frame for personal use cut out the stamped VIN # from the stock steering head and tack it on the new head. Likewise carefully remove the alum plate and glue/rivot on.

Yep, that's how it works in Italy too. They won't care much about the frame (they don't have a clue on how an original frame looks like) but mostly about lights, indicators, horn, etc...

My experience here in Italy is that they (i.e. inspectors and police) don't care much about choppers, cafe racer and the likes, as they know the riders of those bikes won't be likely to drive fast or recklessly. I never heard of a Harley rider being stopped by the police and having his bike confiscated because of an aftermarket non-homologated exhaust... If you get stopped while riding a modern supersport bike and may help you God even if you have one non-original bolt

[MessnerMoto]

As mentioned, I doubt any inspector here would know the difference between a stock frame and a banana.

If it's a one-off frame for personal use cut out the stamped VIN # from the stock steering head and tack it on the new head. Likewise carefully remove the alum plate and glue/rivot on.

I tried to keep it low if somebody is listening

[bwaller]

I understand and won't scream it from the highest mountain. 

It is a fact however that people do read these forums. Recently there was a race class rule change proposal that would have excluded my bike specifically. I am certain the proposer would be a member here.

[eli]

As mentioned, I doubt any inspector here would know the difference between a stock frame and a banana.

If it's a one-off frame for personal use cut out the stamped VIN # from the stock steering head and tack it on the new head. Likewise carefully remove the alum plate and glue/rivot on.

Yep, that's how it works in Italy too. They won't care much about the frame (they don't have a clue on how an original frame looks like) but mostly about lights, indicators, horn, etc...

My experience here in Italy is that they (i.e. inspectors and police) don't care much about choppers, cafe racer and the likes, as they know the riders of those bikes won't be likely to drive fast or recklessly. I never heard of a Harley rider being stopped by the police and having his bike confiscated because of an aftermarket non-homologated exhaust... If you get stopped while riding a modern supersport bike and may help you God even if you have one non-original bolt

Which means I have to export my bike to Italy! And I need someone to register it for me and sell it back to me afterwards 

[simon#42]

I understand and won't scream it from the highest mountain. 

It is a fact however that people do read these forums. Recently there was a race class rule change proposal that would have excluded my bike specifically. I am certain the proposer would be a member here.

If you can't beat them get them banned !    If you build a bike according to the rules you dont expect someone to change them when they feel like .

[Sam Green Racing]

well i got it !    sam i thought peter darvil died about 10 years ago .

Yes Simon but before he did, a friend of mine who like you, I met on here married his daughter and resurrected the team.
It was Darvill Racing who set up that Electric Land Speed Record that I set a few weeks before my big accident.
Of the two frames he had, he sold one to a friend of mine in Texas who is also a member of the forum, as is the owner of the #2 bike.