Topic: Success!!! My goal of dragging a knee in a corner is fullfilled!!!!

[JP]

So, I was on my way to the movies yesterday to see 'Smokin' Ace's'.  I see one of my favorite left hander's comming up and I start psyicing myself up.  I quickly hit second gear (around 6,000 rpm's), get into position with my belly on  the tank and my ass hanging off the left of the bike.  I'm right in the power of the little 550 and I can roll it on if I need it.  I'm feeling good and I tell myself- "This is it JP, today is the day that you cross over and become one of the greats that are capable of slinging a bike so low as to drag a knee on the pavement." 

My words could not have been more real.  Just as my knee get's about an inch from pavement in this wide 90 degree turn, at about 30-35mph-  the 550 decides to help my dream become reality.  As the rear tire's feable little grip on pavement fails, the weight of an old Honda and 200 of my own pounds drive my knee deep into the blacktop and I slide in the glory position for at least five feet before the bike accelerates out of my grip and I am left tumbling still clutching tightly to the left hand grip. 

It is in this state of "Slow motion override", when I see a combination of road, skidding bike, and sky, that I calmly access my situation.  I say to myself these three things, and in this order:
1.  Piss, I just got this bike looking good and now I'm gonna have to start all over.  I was planning on selling it in two weeks!
2.  I'm gonna be late for the movie.
3.  It's 100% the bike's fault.

The last thought has been lingering for a while, and I am really sort of depressed about it.  You see, I got into these bikes for the soul purpose of slowing me down.  I figured that the switch to older, slower bikes would eventually save my life- and this may very well be true.  However, when the skill of the rider out weighs the ability of the bike, well, the fun meter starts to go down drastically.

JP

[heffay]

awwww... son of a...

i'm sorry to hear that, was it the flattracker?  nurse those bruises and don't take it out on the bike too much... you did have a bit to do with it 

glad you're here to tell the story.

[seaweb11]

I hope you and your bike are feeling better soon.

It is my belief that the reason behind "hanging your ass off to one side" was simply to get a bike to turn at huge speed.
30-35 just doesn't seem fast enough to get enough force to compensate for the extra weight. 

heal well

[nickjtc]

Hope you weren't banged up too much. Bikes, we can fix.

[dusterdude]

yea,glad you`re alive to talk about it

[JP]

I'm okay, just pretty sore and happy that I am pro- safety gear.  My jacket has finally be de-cherried, but my helmet was thankfully spotless.  

I hang off to one side simply to make it easier to lean over.  I deffinately think the suspension was as much to blame as the pizza cutter rear tire, though.  The turn has a bit of a rise in it and I think that as I started on the down side, the suspension rebounded to fast making it too much for the little tire to handle.

And I know you are right Heffay, I shouldn't have even been trying this stuff on that bike.

JP

[HITMAN]

I don't think to push my 550 as much as I do the XX.   Me, still no knee dragging but I only have on good one left so I'll pass.


Glad your OK, keep your whees down and your head up!

[eldar]

Yeah I would rather keep my knees. So I might be slower than others but  I also have 2 young'ns to worry about and that more than makes up for not draggin a knee.

[Serenity]

I love the way you saw humour in it, and wrote it in such a way...I'm glad youre ok thats what counts....i guess sometimes the desire to do something just outways all else...thanks for sharing

[Hockers Choppers]

Thank God for leather!!!

[kghost]

3.  It's 100% the bike's fault.

The last thought has been lingering for a while, and I am really sort of depressed about it.  You see, I got into these bikes for the soul purpose of slowing me down.  I figured that the switch to older, slower bikes would eventually save my life- and this may very well be true.  However, when the skill of the rider out weighs the ability of the bike, well, the fun meter starts to go down drastically.

JP

First: Glad your ok and uninjured.

Second: I would disagree with you on your third point. It was 100% your own damn fault.

We have a saying in aviation...."A superior pilot exercises superior judgement to avoid situations requiring superior skills"

If you bought a thirty year old motorcycle it is just that. Thirty year old technology. It will not corner or handle like a modern motorcycle.

That in and of itself should have slowed you down.

Third: Had your skill level been has high as you thought you would have known the limitations of the machine. A Truly great rider takes the machine to the limit and keeps it there but no further. Any old rider can surpass the limits of any machine. The skill comes from knowing where the limits are.

I'd say you found both the bikes limit and your own.


Now you and others may disagree. However as a good friend pointed out to me....Never go so fast people can't see how cool you look  ...its hard to look cool on your back in the middle of an intersection.

[Uncle Ernie]

*clap*   *clap*   *clap*   *clap*   *clap*   *clap*   *clap*   *clap*   *clap*   *clap*

Great writing.  I was thinking, "this is impossible"- but you had me and sure enough...
Try that on a /2 BMW- your centerstand tang hits the ground and the rear wheel comes off the pavement. ( I read that somewhere.)

I sort of try to get in the mind-set of the time and ride accordingly.  I'm really fast in my mind!

[heffay]

hope this helps...

on my way to school this morning after i'd parked the car and was walking the remainder of the way... some nut on a skateboard was careening down a sidewalk and tucked down to round a corner... he hit the ice and slid for another 10 feet on his ass.

he brushed himself off and took off again with skateboard underfoot.

10 seconds later he was flat on his ass AGAIN due to ice...  this happened less than an hour after i read your story and i couldn't help but think of you.

at least you didn't try to drag the other knee   

[Hockers Choppers]

I would think a knee drag would be possible in about any bike also JP! especially at 35mph!?!  But I'm  6' tall and can just drop my knee down. But with big fat size 12 feet, my boots drag before my knee every time!!! And the mac 4-1 drags on the right side VERY easy. Heal fast, spring is almost here!

[crazypj]

You need an old Suzuki T or GT500 to practice on.
You can slide them around on their oversized silencers easy at 80 plus
 ( you can do same on right side of 550F as well, left side just drags stand foot)
I'm not fast or skilled, just lucky
PJ

[JP]

Second: I would disagree with you on your third point. It was 100% your own damn fault

kghost,

Now I know why you always are bickering with people.  Because you start it.  It's amazing how everyone elses comments where light hearted and then you come in with that.  Another amazing point to be made, is that you skipped over Heffay's post where he more lovingly said the same thing and I responded saying that he was right and I shouldn't have been trying something like this on that type of bike.

So please, in the future, before sewage flows from your toilet hole again- get some knowledge.  I just wrecked my bike, my knee and pride are both slightly damaged.  Therefor remarks like yours are not needed.

Hocker,

Don't read this wrong because of the previous lines written, just stating that: dragging a knee and raising the bike back up successfully is probably both the most difficult and most dangerous thing to do on a bike.  It may seem easy, but try it sometime- actually don't, just take my word for it.  Also, the speed really doesn't matter.  If anything, a bike will grip the road better with a little more speed due to the centripital force of the bikes weight being pushed against the pavement, as well as- it will come up easier due to the extra centrifugal force adde by the extra speed.  Just watch a superbike race sometime and look at how low they need to get those bikes in order to drag their knees, and then you'll see what I was (stupidly) trying to do on an ancient bike.

And Heffay, loved your post about the kid- but once is all it takes for me!   I won't be trying it again unless I have both A. knee rollers, and B.  A bike that I don't mind wrecking!

[eldar]

Well JP, I dont see were the sewage was. He gave it to you straight. I would have to say that if you bristled this much, your pride is more damaged than your knee. You did something that you know you should not have, on a bike that was not prepared to do it and you know it. Clearly while you will get sympathy, you will also get chewed a bit too as it was not an accident, it was what the computer industry calls "user error". The bike did nothing wrong, it did the best it could for how it was set up.

Chill out a little buddy, learn from your mistakes, heal up and carry on.

[kghost]

Ya Don't have to agree with my opinion.

Its just that my opinion. But its based on what you wrote.

I do hope you learn something tho....

Never let your exuberance override your better judgement.

As for my toilet mouth? Sticks and stones may break my bones but an overinflated opinion of my skill level will not.
 

Ya blamed your bike. Not your judgement.

So perhaps you did need to hear it. I for one do not want you splattered all over the road. That would take all the fun out of this forum.


I'll keep calling a spade a spade.

[tsflstb]

Not trying to pile on here, JP.  Heal up and turn out some more cool bikes.

You seem like a decent guy, and I admire the fact you're trying to use your bike to its potential.  I just tend to disagree with blaming a bike for a wreck.  A lot of guys get caught up in needing the latest exhaust pipe, triple clicker shock, race compound tires...etc...to go fast.  It's easier to blame it on stuff you can buy than to try and improve your skill set.  An old carpenter once told me, "A poor workman always blames his tools". 

Just try to think about how you could have avoided the wreck using your skills, so that next time the back end steps out you can catch it.  I probably would have binned it just like you...I definitely need to improve myself.  A little 100cc dirt bike is one of the best investments someone could make in improving their riding skills.  Slide that thing around, crash it, pick it up and do it again.  Guys like Nick Hayden grew up doing that.  Put him on my old clapped out 400 and he would run circles around most of us on the latest superbike.

[JP]

Without a doubt, you are all right- even kghost, he's just a little too blunt for my taste (but hey, he spoke his mind).

The smarter rider in this case would not have attempted the trick on a 550.  I obviously wasn't trying to be smart, though- I was trying to drag a knee.  There is no other way to find a bikes breaking point than to actually be on it when it breaks loose, period.  I can now say with confidence that I have tested a 1975 CB550F to it's fullest capabilities.

The only failure on my part was the failure in judgement.  I thought the bike would hold, and it did not.  Which brings up a much more interresting topic than my wreck, and that is.........After further contemplation, I think a 750 would have kept it's footing.  With the extra weight and the fatter footprints- I still maintain my opinion that the 750 will out handle a 550/500.  It is just a little hard to get it to move- i.e., more rider input.

Any thoughts?  Now that I know the limits of the 550, I do hereby dub myself the resident expert on the matter.

[tsflstb]

The width of the tire has little to do with the ability of the bike to hold a corner.  Ever seen the rear tire and lean angle on an 125cc GP bike?  Fat tires on modern sportbikes have more to do with putting power to the ground.  I've had my ass handed to me by superior riders on big BMW GS1100s using knobbies on the street.  They're dragging cylinder heads and probably humming a German beer drinking song.

Point I was trying to make is you did not exceed the limits of the motorcycle, you exceeded your own ability.  Hanging off in that corner may not have been the optimum place to center your weight.  There are a million minor corrections you could make when you feel a tire slipping.  Stay on the throttle, put your weight back over the bike and ride it out.

Riding is just like any other sport.  You're not as good as you will ever be.  Guys that ride for a living are constantly trying to get better.  Practice, better yourself and make that corner your #$%*.

[seaweb11]

Guys that race 250s drag their knees.  Its nothing to do with the size of the bike. It is as I said before, speed and the corner.
If you were to fly into that same corner at say 55-60 it might just work  I don't recommend it however

I admit, I hang off mine on a couple of the tight corners here on Island, but I have worked through these corners for 3 years and know what speed is required NOT to make it if I don't hang off!   If you go so fast that under normal riding you won't make the corner....hang...if not...don't do it

I can get the wifes 350 through the same corners at just about the same speed without hanging. lighter bike..less to push through.

My thoughts anyway

[JP]

tsflstb,

I here you, I here you.  There is much improvement to be made on my end.  It's hard to convey over the enternet, but believe me when I say that:  I did it all flawlessly (minus my judgement) and I am quiet confident to say that no one on earth could take my bike on that curve and at that speed and be able to keep it up.  The only possible solution would be to take it faster as seaweb has already said, but I am still certain that it would be kissing pavement regaurdless of who the rider is.  There is only so much that can be done on a machine like the 550, and that turn at that speed is NOT one of them.  Like I said, poor judgement.

But back to the tire.  Your crazy   I have never, ever, ever, ever, ever been on, seen, heard about, or joked about any motorcycle having traction issues on good pavement and not able to get the power to the ground.  To me it is rediculous to think that a bike is not getting enough traction in a straight line.  The fat tire is not flat.  It is rounded.  Therefore the actual contact of tire and road is not that different from a skinny tire.  But when you go to lean, the extra tread on the sides of the tire is what increases the contact area in a turn giving you more traction.  A bicycle tire would probably give enough forward traction.

Again, not saying that I am a super rider.  Just saying that on that day everything was going great and I had my A game on.  I was in the zone.  You know what I mean?  I did everything right physically and the bike couldn't physically hold the road.  Why is that hard to believe?

By the way, I am really enjoying this.  Keep'em comming!
JP

[upperlake04]

Keep'em comming! 

OK JP   

I did it all flawlessly (minus my judgement) and I am quiet confident to say that no one on earth could take my bike on that curve and at that speed and be able to keep it up.

Again, not saying that I am a super rider

Oh,  yes you are 

[Uncle Ernie]

There may be some subteranean meaning to the fact that you keep referring to this episode as a "trick"... ?
I actually thought you were goofing around and got caught with your pants down, so to speak.   It is my experience that older bikes are designed for narrower tires and, thus, perform much better with those tires.  As far as bike size and weight go, given 2 riders with equal training and experience, the one on the lighter/smaller bike will thrash the other on roads like we have here in the mountains.  However- superior skill will win out at all times.  With all due respect, it doesn't seem you have that level of skill yet.  (Neither do I, BTW)  
Now that I understand that you were serious about hanging off unecessarily, I wonder if you know WHY one hangs off/ what the purpose of the manoever is?  There are definitely machine limits, but the truely gifted rider would not have tried to perform that "trick" at 35mph.