Topic: 1975 CB750F strange clutch issue after a pull apart to check slipping issues.

[kaptainkid1]

1975 CB750F with 26k miles and I was getting slipping in 2nd gear on full throttle.
I decided to pull the clutch apart. Pulled the clutch and plates apart to check the clutch disc. Nothing was found and all bolts we're wrench down to specs.
So I broke the clutch lifter plate and got a used replacement.
After putting everything back together. The new issues I can't shift into gear its seems when I pull the clutch in now it very stiff and I can see the clutch housing flexing and it try's to engage the clutch. That's not normal and when I let the clutch go not in gear 1st or 2nd. I have feeling the clutch lifter plate isn't engaging the clutch properly. The center bearing in the clutch lifter plate is very snug. I don't have the bearing sliding in the clutch lifter plate but firm set in. Is this correct?
I've tried many adjustments on the clutch adjustment screw and not proper shift engagement. What else can be the problem?

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[bryanj]

Sounds like you may have the lifter plate on wrong, it has to engage with the centre teeth as well as bolts line up. OR the mechanism/cable adjustment is very wrong

[StockRider]

Never experienced the same symptoms but I recommend this tutorial for checking your work:

http://vintage-and-classic-honda-s.456789.n3.nabble.com/How-to-change-and-adjust-a-clutch-SOHC-td4040391.html

[low-side]

I agree with brianj.  It sounds like the top plate isn't lined up properly so it isn't moving so the mechanism is moving the cover instead.

[kaptainkid1]

Never experienced the same symptoms but I recommend this tutorial for checking your work:

http://vintage-and-classic-honda-s.456789.n3.nabble.com/How-to-change-and-adjust-a-clutch-SOHC-td4040391.html

I'm installing my clutch systems about 100% correct to your tutorial. I will pull it apart again and record my pull apart and reinstall so guys can double check issues. Maybe its something I'm not doing something wrong. Thanks for the link.

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[kaptainkid1]

Can anyone here help me resolve my gear shifting issue? It seems my 26k miles CB750 is not shifting into gears with the clutch lever anymore. I've taken apart the clutch plates and do not see any issues except for the clutch does engage properly anymore after taking it apart 3 times.


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[Jerry Rxman Griffin aka MuthaF'er]

Do you have the pack installed correctly? You may need to rotate it one tooth to make it fit properly. It should all work without any further "adjustments" if it worked before.

Also considering you messed up one lifter plate just be sure you are doing that correctly. It's hard to describe but much easier to break a tab. That's how we all learn. Someone out there is making a HD lifter plate now other than our Bud that used to do it. 

[newday777]

Can anyone here help me resolve my gear shifting issue? It seems my 26k miles CB750 is not shifting into gears with the clutch lever anymore. I've taken apart the clutch plates and do not see any issues except for the clutch does engage properly anymore after taking it apart 3 times.

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Your words are kinda jumbled (I assume you didn't proofread your text before hitting post) and missing words I'm assuming? 

"not shifting into gears with the clutch lever anymore. "
What's it doing when you try to go into gear? Grinding gears and not slipping into gear?

My wonder is...did you assemble it correctly each time?
When you took it apart each time, did you pull it apart and lay it out in order as you took it apart so it went back together in proper order and position?
Is the conical washer on the bolt in the proper direction?(it won't operate if backwards)

[PeWe]

The washer under the clutch center nut probably flipped wrong. It is convex with its "bulb" outwards.

Slipping clutch can be old clutch fibers.
If engine is modified with much more torque metal plates need to be glass beaded.

[ekpent]

Sounds like the 'teeth' are not lining up correctly when its getting put back together as that can break that plate also.

[kaptainkid1]

Let me start off by saying my last post I was very frustrated and lack the mindset to explain my problems.
I had a video of my clutch tear down and re-install. This video can not transfer or upload due my computer issues. So I have to say I installed all the parts correctly.

According to DIY instruction:
https://wrenchandspanner.wordpress.com/2014/12/20/how-to-change-and-adjust-a-clutch-sohc/

Recap of my issues:
1. Why I took apart my clutch? The bike drove fine until it started to pop of gear second and 3rd on hard pulls.
2. I took apart my clutch 2 years ago to inspect any damage or apparent issues. I could not find any but once the clutch was taken apart it would not engage the clutch lever correctly or function properly once reinstalled.

3. Can not engage "Clutch Lever" by the Clutch case. This Clutch lever is adjusted correctly and became issue right after I took apart the Clutch to inspect any issues.
When taking apart the clutch I did not see any metal filings in the oil, broken parts or damaged clutch basket. All the parts, spline washer, clutch friction disc and clutch lifter plates was installed to Honda specs. I followed the DIY instruction above link. Plus I had the Honda CB750 manual as well.

4. When engaging the clutch lever it feels like the clutch lifter plate isn't depressing inside the clutch basket. I can see the Clutch case flexing instead of the proper engagement. It will not shift into gear with engine off, I tried shift into 1st gear and the neutral light is turned off letting me know it's in 1st gear but will spins freely and is not engage to the engine block.

Does anyone know what my problem is?
I have a spare cb750 clutch basket and gear in photos.
Is this problem an engine tear down?



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[Jerry Rxman Griffin aka MuthaF'er]

You are overthinking. Something we are ALL guilty of. Forget those DIY instructions.

You do NOT have the clutch pack installed in the basket correctly as I see from the assembled picture. It is sticking out too far. You either have too many plates, a double plate in an earlier basket, or as has been mentioned a couple times previously you need to turn the pack 1 tooth inside the basket to make it mesh properly. The dogs/tits on that last plate should fit inside the "tangs" of the basket. Remove the lifter, raise the pack, slightly rotate the pack one click on the teeth. It, the pack, should drop down then reassemble.

Even if you have to replace an earlier basket with a later 77 - 78 basket due to utilizing a double steel in the center, which I did, the basket can be removed without splitting the cases. However if this is the case then you will also need the later model of clutch cover. The earlier clutches were guilty of looseness and the resulting clutch rattle. As an intermediate solution Honda came up with their "field fix" of removing one friction disc and adding a double steel plate from a 75 - 79 Gold Wing clutch pack. To actually correct this they redesigned the whole clutch for 77/78 by lengthening the basket slightly and using the double steel with the correct number of plates. You can not mix and match without doing it properly. I have done both, the field fix and replacing the whole clutch on my 75 with the 77/78. Somewhere on this sight you can find this info. I will look for the info and try to link you to the proper location.   

[Jerry Rxman Griffin aka MuthaF'er]

http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,132482.msg1480628.html#msg1480628

[david 750f]

I agree with Jerry. Your last photo shows an incorrectly assembled clutch, its definitely sitting too high. I'll try and find a photo of my 76 750F basket.

[david 750f]

The top fibre clutch disc should be below the basket level. (outer clutch). You can see in the second from last of your pictures that the splined clutch centre is sitting up too high. Im surprised you haven't cracked the pressure plate, just loosen everything and jiggle it around

[gifv]/gifv]

[Don R]

 A jiggle won't fix it. let me see if I can illustrate what everyone is saying. I'll try for a picture.

[Don R]

 This is the most common way lifters are broken. To correct it remove and turn the four posts one hole either way. Next time, mark the parts before removing.

[kaptainkid1]

You are overthinking. Something we are ALL guilty of. Forget those DIY instructions.

You do NOT have the clutch pack installed in the basket correctly as I see from the assembled picture. It is sticking out too far. You either have too many plates, a double plate in an earlier basket, or as has been mentioned a couple times previously you need to turn the pack 1 tooth inside the basket to make it mesh properly. The dogs/tits on that last plate should fit inside the "tangs" of the basket. Remove the lifter, raise the pack, slightly rotate the pack one click on the teeth. It, the pack, should drop down then reassemble.

Even if you have to replace an earlier basket with a later 77 - 78 basket due to utilizing a double steel in the center, which I did, the basket can be removed without splitting the cases. However if this is the case then you will also need the later model of clutch cover. The earlier clutches were guilty of looseness and the resulting clutch rattle. As an intermediate solution Honda came up with their "field fix" of removing one friction disc and adding a double steel plate from a 75 - 79 Gold Wing clutch pack. To actually correct this they redesigned the whole clutch for 77/78 by lengthening the basket slightly and using the double steel with the correct number of plates. You can not mix and match without doing it properly. I have done both, the field fix and replacing the whole clutch on my 75 with the 77/78. Somewhere on this sight you can find this info. I will look for the info and try to link you to the proper location.

Hi Jerry,
The basket with clutch plates in photo is my back up part and all the clutch plates are sitting in the basket correctly in the bike. I was showing these examples from my tear down. Since my 45 minutes video will not upload to youtube I had to rely on back up photos for examples.
My issues is the same clutch lever not engaging and gear not shifting properly.
Could it be another issues besides the clutch plates which are aligned correctly in the basket just not shown in my photos.

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[kaptainkid1]

The top fibre clutch disc should be below the basket level. (outer clutch). You can see in the second from last of your pictures that the splined clutch centre is sitting up too high. Im surprised you haven't cracked the pressure plate, just loosen everything and jiggle it around

[gifv]/gifv]

I installed it correctly and photo of the basket clutch out was a picture of my back up parts.

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[Don R]

 There were year to year changes on the clutch basket and pack width and cover offset. Maybe it's assembled properly with mis matched parts. Just a guess.

[kaptainkid1]

There were year to year changes on the clutch basket and pack width and cover offset. Maybe it's assembled properly with mis matched parts. Just a guess.

Interesting thought, I did swaps parts from the back up clutch basket which came with clutch disc and clutch pressure plate that mixed thinking I would put together the best looking parts between the two. I will put back the old parts and see if that fixes the problem.

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[scottly]

With the springs removed, the lifter plate should sit on the four posts with no pressure; if it doesn't, something is wrong with the height of the clutch plate stack or the clocking of the splines.

[Jerry Rxman Griffin aka MuthaF'er]

I mixed and "matched" mine unintentionally. I used a 77/78 pack in a 75 basket. The 77/78 pack uses the double steel in the center. Does your pack have the double steel in the middle? It is the preferred pack that eliminates the clutch rattle. However it is too wide to use with 75 basket. The 77/78 basket is wider to accommodate the wider pack and it also requires use of the 77/78 clutch cover. If this is perhaps what you did it will jam up everything when you install the cover and be next to impossible to pull in the lever. Somewhere there is a video of my kick starter mysteriously moving like it was possessed on it's own upon start up. I realized what I had done and replaced the basket and all went well. 

[kaptainkid1]

The Great Pumkin runs again!

It turned out to be the clutch Pressure Plate which I changed from the back up parts. It turns out it can only fit in 1 way out of 4 ways. I never knew that. It only made sense when I noticed it wasn't sitting flat between to uses Pressure plates. So she's back together and now I have a second gear slip problem on hard pulls. Which was my problem in the 1st place. Will start a new thread.

[scottly]

The Great Pumkin runs again!

It turned out to be the clutch Pressure Plate which I changed from the back up parts. It turns out it can only fit in 1 way out of 4 ways.

That's what Don tried to tell you in reply #16.