Topic: Front brake pads

[Deltarider]

Like I said above: the check is to see if it swings freely with no hesitation. If so, there's no need to take the joint apart. Imagine you have your bike serviced by a Honda dealer; would you pay the mechanic for not needed disassemblies? It isn't even in Honda's maintenance scedule.

[bryanj]

It is when you talk to the traveling workshop reps

[caluser2000]

Like I said above: the check is to see if it swings freely with no hesitation. If so, there's no need to take the joint apart. Imagine you have your bike serviced by a Honda dealer; would you pay the mechanic for not needed disassemblies? It isn't even in Honda's maintenance scedule.

There  are two different metal surfaces rubbing against each other. The hard steel pivot rod and the soft ali caliper pivot arm. Where the steel pivot rod goes into he ali caliper arm wares over time and becomes sloppy.without a bit of grease separating the two different metal components. And it is good engineering practice to do this.

I've seen them seized as well after sitting for decades.

[bryanj]

Takes a lot less than decades to sieze.
In order of comonality in 70's brake binding was caused by:=
1 pivot pin siezed
2 Caliper piston siezed
3 tiny hole in mater blocked
4 flexi hose blocked

That is the order we checked in

[Deltarider]

Not trying to be stubborn, but if it moves by even the lightest touch*, the pivot pin is not seized and you don't have to take it apart. If you do, good luck finding the same quality grease Honda used. 
* Mine swivels already by just breathing against it. What more could I want?
In the past I once made the mistake washing my bike with a pressurized water machine, which resulted in:
Didn't want to start anymore, plugcaps and the rest of the ignition soaked.
Drive chain degreased almost completely.
Not that long afterwards, I needed to replace the rear wheel bearings.
Also afterwards, the drive flange's inside (aka sprocket carrier) showed play presumably because the grease had been washed out.
What did NOT happen however:
Swing arm and its bearings had not been harmed in anyway (is still the original) and
neither had the grease of the front brake swivel pin been washed away. Hence my confidence. The two little O-rings (PN 91259-333-000), are still in their plastic bag.
 

[bryanj]

If it moves it aint siezed so dont need work but i still "CHECK" in the order i wrote.

[caluser2000]

If it moves it aint siezed so dont need work but i still "CHECK" in the order i wrote.

What bryanj posted.^^^

[dave500]

Deltas bike has the power to repair itself!

[RAFster122s]

I think we need a forum engine for hosting that allows you to block seeing some of the (trying to be polite and nice rather than rude and unfiltered I will call it) "input" by unnamed participants. Since you cannot reach out and smack someone for saying something stupid.  Ok that was uncalled for...

[bryanj]

No it wasnt raf and i would have to have a helluva long arm from UK

[Deltarider]

Can any of you show where it is in the maintenance scedule to take that pivot pin out to inspect? I would have thought my story has told it all, when even that @%$#! steamwasher had left the grease inside untouched.
This forum is full of unnecessary 'maintenance'. My concern is that newcomers, often amateurs like most of us are, think it then must be normal. It is the same with manuals like Clymer. The content is partly copy and paste from other manuals covering other bikes. Amateurs might get the impression they have to do all this. Not necessarily. What maybe needs attention on some bikes, does not mean it is also goes for your model. More than once I've learned from experienced Honda mecs that said: "we see that problem often, but not your model." I think that is more valuable information than an exploded view in a book which, without the comment of such an experienced mec, might trigger you to take things apart. It's the same with products on the market like rebuild sets for carbs. Amateurs may think: hey, if it is in the shop, it means I'll need it 'to do things right'. Again, not automatically. According to a Honda mec, some models Goldwing had the brassware wear, other models like the CB500 practically never. Look up all the posts here where people could not resist replacing their OEM brassware by Keyster*, then look up the photos I've posted of my brassware that show no wear at all. Think of all those that took their advancers apart 'to service'. If they didn't reassemble the cam a 180^o out, they will have used the wrong lube which later, after enough heat cycles, causes the advancer to stick when the lube has hardened. And then they have a problem. Again, show me where in the CB500/550 Shop manual Honda demonstrates to reassemble an advancer correctly or where the manual specifies what lube to use. See what I mean? Please go on with what ever you think is necessary for your bike, but allow me to balance things from time to time with what I have seen/experienced/learned. When I do it, it's always with newcomers in mind and I mean it well.
*Just the other day on the German forum a member discovered after countless removals of his carbs, what the problem was: one of the Keyster slow jets turned out not to be drilled through, meaning no exit at the top.

[dave500]

hey leave me out of your rant when your using words such as amateurs!sheezes?your bike pumped its own tyres up yet?

[caluser2000]

Goodness some folk ramble on and on and on....

The rest of us go for a ride

Just to stir the pot a bit more:

Two dissimilar metals rubbing against each other directly isn't a good thing.

In other words- the two o'rings are fitted to keep the pivot pin along with the pivot arm separated and hold the grease in.

Some of us do not need to hang on to every word of a service manual to maintain our motorcycles. There are things called good engineering practice and common sense. If it moves lubicate it!.


I worked around military aircraft for a large part of my life lol. Keeping old #$%* working is what I do.

[69cb750]

Can any of you show where it is in the maintenance schedule to take that pivot pin out to inspect? I would have thought my story has told it all, when even that @%$#! steamwasher had left the grease inside untouched.

It never was a maintenance item.
After 40 years the pins can seize, so now you should check and lube if needed.

[Deltarider]

Just go to what the OP has asked. A simple question. And... you can wait for it: tons of advice that implies extra work. Jeezz... he just wants to replace the pads. Then just check the bloody thing like I've done for the last 40 years whenever the wheel was out and you'll know if you have to do more. What's wrong with that? I wouldn't like to pay a mec that goes to see if the grease is still there, when the thing convincely swings freely on just a breath of air indicating there is nothing wrong. The thing is sealed and it is sealed well. And if something is wrong, you'll feel it. Simple. As ever: don't fix what ain't broken. 

[MauiK3]

When I did my 73 CB750 I found that most things were within spec but that time had aged all lubricants, seals, etc. I assumed I needed to check everything to get the bike as close to "out of the box" as I could and was practical. It just gave me peace of mind to know all those items had their clock reset. I had every piece of that bike apart at some point and it runs great. It was a project I took a lot of pleasure in and resulted in a sound ride.
I also enjoyed soaking up the assembled expertise here on the forum.
That's what hobbies are for.

[caluser2000]

Just go to what the OP has asked. A simple question. And... you can wait for it: tons of advice that implies extra work. Jeezz... he just wants to replace the pads. Then just check the bloody thing like I've done for the last 40 years whenever the wheel was out and you'll know if you have to do more. What's wrong with that? I wouldn't like to pay a mec that goes to see if the grease is still there, when the thing convincely swings freely on just a breath of air indicating there is nothing wrong. The thing is sealed and it is sealed well. And if something is wrong, you'll feel it. Simple. As ever: don't fix what ain't broken.

Honda installed those o'rings for a reason-to keep the pivot pin and pivot arm separated as well as keep the grease between them from escaping.. As well the stop f dirt, water and other  crap from getting to the grease. The reason your bikes one moves so freely is you have an extra 1.5-2mm clearance between the pin and pivot arm so the pivot arm  just slops from side to side,

Put those o'rings in where they belong dude. With grease.

[Bodi]

Some things aren't in the maintenance schedule. It was not written with a ~40 year survivor in mind.
If you're replacing the pads on a caliper you know is good with a piston and seal you know is good and you lubed the pivot in living memory, fine- just replace the pads.
If you don't know the condition of the caliper, seal, and piston - it's a good idea to inspect them and deal with any problems. If you don't know how old the brake fluid is, replace it.
If you're taking the caliper off to check the piston and seal, servicing the pivot takes little extra effort or time and is worthwhile if you don't know if or when it was last cleaned and lubed. It isn't exactly a safety item but contributes to brake squeal and uneven pad wear when stiff.
The front brake is rather important and installing new pads replacing worn down ones with a corroded piston will ruin the seal at minimum, probably with brake fluid leaks.
I've had my 400 since 1978 or so, and I know its maintenance history since then because I did 99% of it myself.
If I bought one now I would have no clue when the brake fluid was changed, steering bearings greased, swingarm greased, the brake caliper and swivel condition, the M/C condition, brake hose condition etc etc etc - and I would want to service a lot of stuff ASAP.

It's better to check the brake system in particular so problems don't become apparent when you need to stop. Old brittle/cracked rubber brake hoses usually burst in emergency full braking.

[RAFster122s]

Honda created more than one maintenance manual. There was a common motorcycle maintenance manual as well... forget the exact title. The official shop manuals did not address common sense maintenance items.

Also, the manuals were not written to address maintaining a bike for 40 years. Even the modern cars with lifetime expectancy to not replace some things like transmission fluids in the same interval as those in the past. Then there is things like the rear differential, sure they don’t expect you to change that fluid, but once you pass x number of years or say 100k miles you should be changing that fluid as fresh and checking the pinion mesh and any other adjustments needed to handle wear.

These bikes were not expected to live 40 years, or the majority were not. So, some things like grease break down with time and they form a thicker crust of imbedded dirt and grime on the outside exposed areas...

[PeWe]

Back in early 80's I forgot to lube the pivot which ended up in an almost stuck pivot. Caliper did not float as intended.
Take it apart, clean and add new grease at every front tire change when wheel is off  is a good idea.

The bolts that attach it to fork also checked so they are tightened.

Brake pads...
- Any good brand for our CB brake?

My CB750 K2 has a fantastic rear brake. I got brake shoes in good condition with an old brake plate from eBay.
The shoes marked with Honda logo? Hm
- Can it be old good asbestos version?

[caluser2000]

I put old new Vesra sintered  pads I'd had waiting to be fitted for years in my CB550 about 6 months ago Work great with the drilled disks.

i also fitted rear brake shoes I'd taken off a CB500 I'd wrecked years ago. They had more meat on them(near new) They work well too. Rear shoes can also be refurbish with new material if  you have no are readily available shoes as well. I still have a spare rear brake assy with good shoes, cam, lever etc. I don't think 'll be using it in my life time though.

[Deltarider]

The reason your bikes one moves so freely is you have an extra 1.5-2mm clearance between the pin and pivot arm so the pivot arm  just slops from side to side,

It is very clever of you to diagnose this from such a distance. Wow, have you developed this skill by working in aviation? But really, do you take us for that dumb?
Not that long ago in this forum we discussed - tongue in cheek - Schrödingers cat. Guess what, I am of those stupids that doesn't open the box to see whether the cat is alive or not and then by opening kill it. As long as the box doesn't smell bad, the cat is allright.
Here is the deal. In this forum there is a special domain, an asylum if you will, for those that can't resist tooling around. It's called: "What did you do to your bike today?" It seems very popular. Why not go there with irrational advice. You will never see me there. Promised.

[bryanj]

Delta you need to wind back a bit,
You have your ideas and way of doing things that works for you, others have their way that works for them.
Your bike is maintained by you in a way that you see fit, in a workshop situation i saw countless Honda 4's and KNOW the problems i had to sort out properly.
If you dont do your bike to the Honda schedule and hurt yourself its your problem, as a paid mechanic if i dont do a customers bike so it is 100%(UNLESS he/her has been advised in writing and refused the work in writing) i am liable in court for a heluva lotof money, hence MY advice is the same as i would do in a workshop for a paying customer

[caluser2000]

There's always at leas t one in each every forum bryanj.

I have six to deal with in our local forum site.I call them "The KB Kiwi Biker Knitting  Circle Ladys."  Poor wee oversensitive things they are lol.

Now moving right along....

[Deltarider]

If you dont do your bike to the Honda schedule and hurt yourself its your problem, as a paid mechanic if i dont do a customers bike so it is 100%(UNLESS he/her has been advised in writing and refused the work in writing) i am liable in court for a heluva lotof money, hence MY advice is the same as i would do in a workshop for a paying customer

Bryanj, with all respect, I don't understand how you can say this. Didn't I ask: show me where it is in the maintenance scedule? Well, it ain't. If it was, I'd probably follow it like most what is in the scedule.
Most, because there are things in the scedule that even Honda dealers didn't do. I probably don't tell you a secret that no Honda dealer ever unscrews the oilpan to check the oil strainer as prescribed. Maybe, maybe they did it once, when you had bought the bike new at them, at the first maintenance service. Thereafter - speaking for Holland - I can tell you no dealer ever bothered. It's the same with replacing the forkoil. None of the owners I know had that ever specified on the bill, simply because dealers - liable ore not - hated it to carry it out unless the owner specifically asked for it. And - mind you - these two things are in the maintenance scedule.
Look, you can tell by what the the OP asked, that he is not very experienced yet. He didn't mention he has a problem with his brake. Notwithstanding that you advise a beginner to take the pivot pin out which implies he has to order the special O-rings, that is, if he can find them, then grease it with the right grease and then hope to reassemble it just right. To quote my favourite seargent: "Do you think that is wise, Sir?" What surprises me most however is, that if you felt the urge to tell him something extra, you didn't use the occasion to inform him what usually the problem with these brakes is: collected dirt that has to be cleaned out, inspection of the piston and the seal and sometimes the caliper even has to be honed to get a smooth working brake again. If you have felt the urge to give extra information, that would have been appropiate, not the pivot pin. I never heard anybody complain about the pivot pin, whereas what I have put here, every CB Four owner sooner or later will face. Everyone, no exception. Whereas the pivot pin... I never heard a mec talking about it and none of the CB owners I know, ever had a problem with it, let alone that they found it on the bill.