Author Topic: Squirrely Ride...Concerned. (Read 1806 times)

YoungBlood · « **Reply #25 on:** November 28, 2021, 08:27:36 AM »

Hey Don, well problem is neither allen screw is getting tight. With the cap secured, I can still keep tightening the allen more and tell that its rotating with the damper rod. This made me paranoid that I'm losing oil out from the allen bolt, but I have yet to find oil down at the lower fork around the pinch clamp. Update: I did not use an impact drill, but a socket wrench. Would that really make a difference?

Could it be I stripped the damper rod?

I'll ask to borrow a grease gun soon. Thanks.

Alan F. · « **Reply #26 on:** November 28, 2021, 08:54:07 AM »

You have not stripped threads from the bolt or the damper rod, that is not a concern here.

Yes, using an impact will make a difference, air or electric, not the manual type.

I wouldn't strike a ratchet, but with a solid Allen wrench you can give the wrench a sharp blow with a small hammer (or something like a 17mm combination wrench) to give the fastener the action of an impact wrench, several tries may tighten the bolt just enough to bind the bottom of the damper against the inside of the fork lower bottom.

You always want to assemble these parts clean, oil free and dry. Any film of oil in there can aggrivate the situation.

One way to get them tight is to remove the fork cap and spring, get a wooden dowel and cut it to the correct length so that you can insert it in place of your fork spring and put the top cap back on, tighten the fork cap against the dowel to push the damper rod downward tightly so you can tighten the bottom bolt.
If you cut too short, put in a washer or 2 or 5. This trick works for disassembly too.

Another tip is to make sure your damper rod bolts thread into your damper rods freely without binding before you assemble the forks. I've even seen damper rods with light chisel marks on the bottom where they contacted the 'oil lock piece' essentially adding some lock-washer type action. But I don't know if I'd do that myself.

YoungBlood · « **Reply #27 on:** November 28, 2021, 09:27:57 AM »

Alan, as always, thank you for this precise advice.

Would you say for the time being, I should monitor the lower housing of the fork for oil leaks? If I find any sign of leaks near the damper bolt, then disassemble aka follow these advice points?

Or, given that the damper bolt was freely rotating with the damper rod (when I swapped the copper washers out for new ones), there is certainly a minor leak going on?

Lastly: Anyone have a torque value for that allen damper bolt? Is about 10-15 ft/lbs tight enough? I am terrible at gauging tightness and notorious for stripping #$%*, so using my torque wrench gives me peace of mind.

Alan F. · « **Reply #28 on:** November 28, 2021, 01:46:09 PM »

7 to 10 ft/lbs for a 6mm bolt

There is a section in most Honda manuals within the first few pages with torque values for many common items, also listed by bolt size. When in doubt you can find torque values there. I'd recommend starting at the low end of the range and if it still leaks go higher.

If it's not leaking now you might be fine, is the bike rideable now? There will be higher pressure against that sealing washer while riding so put a pan under both axle caps when you park, you may even want to zip tie a paper towel around your fork cap temporarily for a while to catch any slow drips and alert you to a leak.

YoungBlood · « **Reply #29 on:** November 28, 2021, 07:56:48 PM »

Thanks Alan, I'll be sure to utilize that first page from here on out.

I've been riding the bike since I changed the copper washers out a week ago.
I am not finding any oil, but the stability of the bike is off and seems to be getting worse. The best way I can describe it is that it feels like I'm fighting wind constantly, or the slightest turbulence is felt on the bike (this used to not be the case). I'll tie a paper towel around the caps to be sure. Today I rode and it seemed like the pull I am feeling is coming from the rear wheel. I'll check the rear wheel axle for play when the bike is on the center stand (again).
The bike wants to pull right ever so slightly when I am coming to a stop/slowing down. But the pulling seems less noticeable when the bike is running above normal city speeds. However, it has gotten to the point that I am leaving it be until I figure out what's the culprit.
I am also pulling the motor to replace gaskets, and inspect for out of spec wear. I've got a month off school so I want to get that done over then. I also have HondaMan's book that I'll use as a step by step guide.
I'm thinking that looking into the rear fork will be easier once the motor out.

Alan F. · « **Reply #30 on:** November 28, 2021, 08:30:01 PM »

I've actually got a question for you. When you had the front end apart, did you remove the axle from the front wheel?

YoungBlood · « **Reply #31 on:** November 29, 2021, 12:48:04 PM »

I've never pulled the axle from the front wheel.

However, I have pulled the axle from the rear wheel many times. The last I removed the rear axle was to manually replace a punctured inner tube. The time before that I went to a shop and had new tires installed, the rear axle must have been pulled then, but I am unsure about whether they touched the front wheel's axle.

-T

Alan F. · « **Reply #32 on:** November 29, 2021, 12:49:56 PM »

How do your chain adjusters look? Is one side screwed in visibly more than the other? You can verify alignment by measuring with a tape measure from axle center to swingarm pivot center on both sides.

I asked about the front axle because the sleeve/nut #18 in this diagram can be put on backwards causing fork misalignment. The hex side should be towards the inside, an easy visual check.

YoungBlood · « **Reply #33 on:** November 29, 2021, 01:34:01 PM »

Hey Alan, I just checked outside. I can't tell if the sleeve/nut in #18 was assembled reversed on the bike. The rear brake caliper housing seems to be blocking the view.

The spacers are bent, but the markings are each lined up properly. But I will check by measuring with a tape as you described.

YoungBlood · « **Reply #34 on:** November 29, 2021, 01:35:36 PM »

We both are talking about #4 in this picture, right?

Alan F. · « **Reply #35 on:** November 29, 2021, 01:52:34 PM »

I'm not talking about #4, I mean #18 which is on the front axle.

Chain adjusters have reference marks on the swingarm but for accuracy always measure axle to swingarm pivot centers on both sides and adjust until they're the same. If one chain adjuster is not equal to the other, your rear axle will not be 90 degrees to the direction you want the bike to go, resulting in squirrelly handling.

YoungBlood · « **Reply #36 on:** November 29, 2021, 01:58:32 PM »

Sorry Alan, thought we were talking about the rear axle. I'll check the front.

I just attempted to measure from the rear axle to the rear fork pivot center. However, to get the tape to run straight I had to measure from the back of the rear fork to the axle. On the left side I have 18 5/8~3/4 and the right I have 18 3/4 in. I'm going to double check my measurements.

Alan F. · « **Reply #37 on:** November 29, 2021, 01:58:57 PM »

If #18 at the front axle were put on backwards, your forks would have to be force fit since the area the front axle caps clamp to would have been altered narrower, causing all kinds of fork stiction. Forks would feel stiff and not want to slide up & down when you hold the front brake and push down on the handlebars.

If the Hex part of #18 is on the outside end of the axle, it needs to get turned around.

Alan F. · « **Reply #38 on:** November 29, 2021, 02:00:53 PM »

Yeah, a tape measure isn't really accurate here but it'll let you know if you're close or not.

That String Method would probably be the next thing to look at.

YoungBlood · « **Reply #39 on:** November 29, 2021, 02:12:44 PM »

Okay Alan, you're the winning ticket.

The front axle sleeve was turned the wrong way. The hex is facing outward, not towards the wheel hub, but towards the cap.
I'll be damned, would a shop remove my front fork axle when they replaced the tire?

Also, did a second measurement with the tape for the rear axle alignment. Here's what I got: Right side (caliper) 18 3/4 ; Left side 18 ~5/8 (definitely not 3/4)

Alan F. · « **Reply #40 on:** November 29, 2021, 04:53:03 PM »

They probably took the front axle out to balance the wheel, because they don't know how to do that on the bike. Chain adjustment, they probably eyeballed it and said good enough.

Did you get a good deal on the tires?

YoungBlood · « **Reply #41 on:** November 29, 2021, 05:31:46 PM »

The shop charged $260 for wheels on the bike, $190 wheels off the bike. I chose the former since the shop was 8 miles away, and the bike is all I have for private transport. Since they already were going to have the wheels off, I asked them to also install the sprockets and o-ring chain I purchased privately (I also don't have the riveting tool). They tacked another $130 onto the $260, so I was robbed of $390 altogether.

The tires themselves Bridgestone Battlax BT46 were $260 all together (235 for the tires, the rest tax and shipping). I bought the tires myself from Motosport.com

YoungBlood · « **Reply #42 on:** November 29, 2021, 05:54:56 PM »

Alan, never knew what balancing tires requires, but just watched a few youtube videos.

I'm not sure the shop I went to balanced my tires, there certainly are no "weights" taped onto either wheel. Is there another way one might balance a tire without using stick on weights?
Update: shop apparently uses ride-on tps, but when I popped the inner tube I don't recall seeing this goo inside there. I'm going to check that the tires are balanced soon.

Alan F. · « **Reply #43 on:** November 29, 2021, 06:10:50 PM »

Balanced tires will help get rid of the squirrell, but with a new chain you will need to learn how to adjust the slack out of it as it wears in. I'd start a thread on chain adjustment and get all of the best tips from everyone.

Plus you need to get that front axle collar turned around, that'll be another thread to get the best know-how that can be found.

These are some of the reasons most of us don't trust shops to work on our bikes, or sometimes cars too.

YoungBlood · « **Reply #44 on:** November 29, 2021, 06:23:45 PM »

Thanks Alan, I appreciate all the sound advice.

I'll make some new posts on these topics. And I'll be opening my own shop soon with one employee servicing one bike, The Alley.

Alan F. · « **Reply #45 on:** November 29, 2021, 06:26:25 PM »

Glad to help, learn that string trick though, it will help wrap your head around why your bike won't go where you point it when issues like this are in play.

YoungBlood · « **Reply #46 on:** November 30, 2021, 12:53:36 PM »

The front fork sleeve wasn't installed backwards. I thought the hex was to be brushed up entirely against the hub, I did not notice the second spacer between the hub and the sleeve when I looked at these diagrams initially. It is installed correctly.

While I had the wheel off I noticed that I have lost new oil underneath the fork c-caps. I used my impact drill and tightened them down. Since I have lost oil, do you all think it would be best to once again repeat draining and refilling to ensure equal and proper levels? I can do this without removing the front wheel, correct?

Alan F. · « **Reply #47 on:** November 30, 2021, 01:06:09 PM »

If you found a puddle I'd say yes to adding more to your forks, if you found several drops I'd say you're probably ok.

News:

Author Topic: Squirrely Ride...Concerned. (Read 1806 times)