Topic: New Turbo thread

[Don R]

 Thanks for the encouragement and information.
 I got burned twice by mixed race fuel in our dragster, once from an in-ground Unocal station (lesson learned, I thought) and once by a stock car shop with above ground tanks when a delivery guy mixed methanol with leaded race gas.
 I was at Winners Circle Speed Shop in Moline reading VP can labels yesterday, lol.  I'm gathering my info before a call to CycleX.
 
 
 

[BomberMann650]

Can yall help brainstorm how to get a fuel pump to play nice with the carburetor float valve?

The Holley mighty mite can overflow the mikuni in no time flat.

[Don R]

  The VW's I've worked on use a little round chrome fuel pressure regulator.
  I've been looking for a boost referenced regulator, but they are all huge. My ATP setup came with a large stewart warner fuel pump and large regulator, I was looking at that Holley or similar Edelbrock pump also.
 Space is at a premium, Honda didn't leave many openings.

 Google Stormcar fuel pressure regulator, Offenhauser has it at Speedway motors also. I suspect it's the same regulator sold by many re-sellers. You might check VW shops also.
  Quick fuel has one with many different sellers on ebay, it's the holley style, I like it because it has two outlets, one can mount a gauge.

[BomberMann650]

  The VW's I've worked on use a little round chrome fuel pressure regulator.
  I've been looking for a boost referenced regulator, but they are all huge. My ATP setup came with a large stewart warner fuel pump and large regulator, I was looking at that Holley or similar Edelbrock pump also.
 Space is at a premium, Honda didn't leave many openings.

 Google Stormcar fuel pressure regulator, Offenhauser has it at Speedway motors also. I suspect it's the same regulator sold by many re-sellers. You might check VW shops also.
  Quick fuel has one with many different sellers on ebay, it's the holley style, I like it because it has two outlets, one can mount a gauge.

Saw the storm car knob style regulator on amazon.  Will add to list.

[willbird]

Can yall help brainstorm how to get a fuel pump to play nice with the carburetor float valve?

The Holley mighty mite can overflow the mikuni in no time flat.

This controller here

https://www.madhu.com/content/Main/FuelPumpController

will  PWM fuel pump to achieve and hold pressure. Typically folks will use automotive pressure senders...like this one.

https://a.co/d/5Oyn4aB

And IMHO the hose barb would allow you to boost reference the pressure sensor ??

https://a.co/d/5Oyn4aB

I bought the controller and soldered it up for a future project. No idea if it will work with as low of a pressure as what a carburator needs.

[BomberMann650]

Will probably go with Don's recommended Volkswagen part.  Being the simplest analog solution.

But while I have the d.i.why turbo bike running on gravity - there's some interesting fuel delivery dynamics going on during bench testing.
As the manifold pressures shift from vacuum to boost - its almost like the fuel charge builds up in the intake tract.  So the next chance the motor gets to suck it in, goes really rich and smoky.  FBM Turbos Dave Dunlop exhibited this on his draw through gsx kit.

I've also noticed a shift from lean to rich as the motor warms up.  Initial wideband readings can be in the 13.5-14 range - but later on it wants to stick around 12:1 - im not sure if I can relate this to fuel puddling up the intake or not.

While im not too concerned with street driving, and haven't got to run the motor with sustained boost pressure - it would be nice to have a better understanding of whats going on in there.

[willbird]

Will probably go with Don's recommended Volkswagen part.  Being the simplest analog solution.

But while I have the d.i.why turbo bike running on gravity - there's some interesting fuel delivery dynamics going on during bench testing.
As the manifold pressures shift from vacuum to boost - its almost like the fuel charge builds up in the intake tract.  So the next chance the motor gets to suck it in, goes really rich and smoky.  FBM Turbos Dave Dunlop exhibited this on his draw through gsx kit.

I've also noticed a shift from lean to rich as the motor warms up.  Initial wideband readings can be in the 13.5-14 range - but later on it wants to stick around 12:1 - im not sure if I can relate this to fuel puddling up the intake or not.

While im not too concerned with street driving, and haven't got to run the motor with sustained boost pressure - it would be nice to have a better understanding of whats going on in there.

I see you mentioned Engine Masters earlier, big fan myself also. Have you dug into Richard Holdener's material on YouTube much yet ? Richard filled in for Steve B for a few shows when Steve was sick. Richard has done a lot and has gone back through a lot of their old test data and will narrate what happened and why. He likes to do YouTube lives where people can ask questions, myself I do not have the patience to rewatch a live usually LOL. But he is the guy I'd go to to ask questions about the dynamics of your type of setup. Richard works at Westec. Diggin through the thread, I am a huge Steve Morris fan too :-).

[Don R]

 I'll check into his video, sounds interesting.

[BomberMann650]

I'll check into his video, sounds interesting.

I certainly have my work cut out for me .. literally.

I've got the idle mix to settle at 14:1 on the meter.  During the heat wave with the shop door open.
Wasted money on the big pilot jets.  Ended up with a size 20.  Weird how this setup, with a cam, wanted smaller jets than the 4 pack carbs from 75 did.

The accelerator pump nozzle is probably too much for this setup.  I've dialed it back, but when it hits the meter dives to 10:1. 

I've ordered some needles and needle jets to try and get the mid throttle to play nice.  Its wanting to go lean.

[willbird]

I'll check into his video, sounds interesting.

Wasted money on the big pilot jets.  Ended up with a size 20.  Weird how this setup, with a cam, wanted smaller jets than the 4 pack carbs from 75 did.

Well, feeding the turbo is a lot steadier vacuum signal than what goes on with 4 individual carbs probably ?

Bill

[Don R]

  I like the 1.5 to 30 psi small fuel pump from Holley and summit has a small regulator that is boost referenced. The issue is that it's a by-pass type. Where do I return the fuel to? I read about someone that returned the regulator bypass back to the feed line, that doesn't sound legit.
  But then, I re-read GPZ's post about his 1100 Suzuki, a big Mikuni with a float bowl extension might not need that help.
 There is also a dial a jet type power jet that can be fed with a separate float bowl that can even have a different fuel in it.

[Don R]

  Here is my ATP intake with the curious passage under the plenum. It doesn't connect to the plenum at all, it just passes through. Guesses have been varied as a crude intercooler, a heater for cold weather use, or a fuel passage so a rubber hose doesn't have to pass the turbo.
 It has a fin inside the passage so I'd have to agree that it is for heat transfer of some sort. This couldn't have been easy to make and adds some weight for sure.

[Don R]

 A couple thoughts on the turbo. Dale Walker mentioned adding compressed air to the exhaust side to provide a smooth power boost during the 1/4 mile run, he controlled it with a solenoid hooked to the horn button.
 An article online showed a small car with threaded pipe blowing compressed air into the exhaust manifold towards the turbine, I'm hesitant to drill the turbine housing but I tested my turbo by adding an oil hose 6' tall for a lube feed, and inserting a blow gun into the turbine, when aiming the air just right, it howled like an air raid siren. I'm wondering how important placement of the compressed air inlet is.
 There are now patents for these systems so Dale may have missed out.
 Another thought is they are now piping the wastegate exhaust into the main turbo outlet exhaust pipe to aid in the header effect. I'm not sure the little Rajay 301-B25 would bypass enough flow to make this worthwhile.

[Tracksnblades1]

I think Volvo has that in practice….?

https://www.foxnews.com/auto/compressed-air-gives-volvos-turbo-engines-a-boost

[Don R]

  What seems like a good idea apparently lives on.
 I'm sure I mentioned it somewhere here because I was thinking of using co2 due to the ease of re-filling the small non-DOT bottles, that are track accepted. Then someone mentioned the cold nature of the co2, blowing onto the red-hot turbine. Maybe it needs to pass through my intake intercooler first.

[Tracksnblades1]

  What seems like a good idea apparently lives on.
 I'm sure I mentioned it somewhere here because I was thinking of using co2 due to the ease of re-filling the small non-DOT bottles, that are track accepted. Then someone mentioned the cold nature of the co2, blowing onto the red-hot turbine. Maybe it needs to pass through my intake intercooler first.

Not for sure anymore, but back when I was trained for SBA and SUBA. Their tanks could be refilled at the fire station.  I’m think quite a bit higher pressure than your average O2 bottle.. 3000-3500 maybe. I remember they pumped them to 4000# to test them periodically to certify them…

Maybe a small SBA tank could be used…the solenoid will probably be the $$ item.  Nitrogen tanks are higher pressure than O2 tanks too and won’t help any booms…

[Don R]

 NHRA tech is pretty picky about the volume and pressure of gas cylinders, although nitrous seems to be an exception. The small C02 bottles we use on our dragster's throttle stop and shifter are exempt from DOT because of their low volume. I legally or otherwise re-fill them at home off of a beverage bottle.

[willbird]

  What seems like a good idea apparently lives on.
 I'm sure I mentioned it somewhere here because I was thinking of using co2 due to the ease of re-filling the small non-DOT bottles, that are track accepted. Then someone mentioned the cold nature of the co2, blowing onto the red-hot turbine. Maybe it needs to pass through my intake intercooler first.

Not for sure anymore, but back when I was trained for SBA and SUBA. Their tanks could be refilled at the fire station.  I’m think quite a bit higher pressure than your average O2 bottle.. 3000-3500 maybe. I remember they pumped them to 4000# to test them periodically to certify them…

Maybe a small SBA tank could be used…the solenoid will probably be the $$ item.  Nitrogen tanks are higher pressure than O2 tanks too and won’t help any booms…

PCP (pre compressed pneumatic) air rifles can be filled with Scuba tanks, but other mfg make tanks as well. Many fire extinguisher service companies can  fill them with high pressure air. I have one made by Ninja Paintball that is a 5k psi carbon fiber wrapped tank.

[Tracksnblades1]

  What seems like a good idea apparently lives on.
 I'm sure I mentioned it somewhere here because I was thinking of using co2 due to the ease of re-filling the small non-DOT bottles, that are track accepted. Then someone mentioned the cold nature of the co2, blowing onto the red-hot turbine. Maybe it needs to pass through my intake intercooler first.

Not for sure anymore, but back when I was trained for SBA and SUBA. Their tanks could be refilled at the fire station.  I’m think quite a bit higher pressure than your average O2 bottle.. 3000-3500 maybe. I remember they pumped them to 4000# to test them periodically to certify them…

Maybe a small SBA tank could be used…the solenoid will probably be the $$ item.  Nitrogen tanks are higher pressure than O2 tanks too and won’t help any booms…

PCP (pre compressed pneumatic) air rifles can be filled with Scuba tanks, but other mfg make tanks as well. Many fire extinguisher service companies can  fill them with high pressure air. I have one made by Ninja Paintball that is a 5k psi carbon fiber wrapped tank.

That sounds like a great very light idea…what is a paint gun’s regulator pressure set at…? How does the trigger activate the pressure/duration…?

[willbird]

  What seems like a good idea apparently lives on.
 I'm sure I mentioned it somewhere here because I was thinking of using co2 due to the ease of re-filling the small non-DOT bottles, that are track accepted. Then someone mentioned the cold nature of the co2, blowing onto the red-hot turbine. Maybe it needs to pass through my intake intercooler first.

Not for sure anymore, but back when I was trained for SBA and SUBA. Their tanks could be refilled at the fire station.  I’m think quite a bit higher pressure than your average O2 bottle.. 3000-3500 maybe. I remember they pumped them to 4000# to test them periodically to certify them…

Maybe a small SBA tank could be used…the solenoid will probably be the $$ item.  Nitrogen tanks are higher pressure than O2 tanks too and won’t help any booms…

PCP (pre compressed pneumatic) air rifles can be filled with Scuba tanks, but other mfg make tanks as well. Many fire extinguisher service companies can  fill them with high pressure air. I have one made by Ninja Paintball that is a 5k psi carbon fiber wrapped tank.

That sounds like a great very light idea…what is a paint gun’s regulator pressure set at…? How does the trigger activate the pressure/duration…?

I am not sure about the paintball stuff, the PCP rifles have a valve that is filled with air, and a striker slides forward and hits the release button on that valve which dumps it's contents into the barrel behind the projectile. Many incorporate a method to tune the striker spring tension, this will change the velocity, and if you do not strike the valve as hard and do not release as much air you get more shots before velocity drops off. There is lots of science and engineering involved, and for ultra high velocities and or heavy projectiles you can use helium instead of compressed air or nitrogen. One can buy the 5k or 3k psi bottles with an included regulator, when I bought my 5k I ordered it regulated to the max fill pressure of the PCP gun. You can also buy a hand pump to fill the guns and I suppose a bottle but you should bring your lunch while pumping LOL. Quite a bit of heat is involved in filling, the fire extinguisher place can get a better fill if you leave the bottle overnight and they can fill it, let it cool over night, then top it off.

Bill

[Don R]

 I won't be using anything that requires a large investment in bottles or hardware. This is just a fun deal and my years of racing tell me use something you have or easy to replenish.

[dragracer]

Nitrous oxide. You can get small bottles and the gas is readily available at every dragstrip or get a larger, used mother bottle and fill your own.