Topic: 1982 CB650SC, Project: "Black and Blue"

[tourmax]

OK, I think I've lost my mind.

Just picked up a set of used cb1100f pistons. 69.98 diameter, shoudl give around 838 cc with the 55.8mm cb650 stroke.

Now the real question is will the cb650 block swallow a set of cb900f liners......

[Gurp]

This is about to be a whole write up the high performance thread lol.

[Ramrod_Racing]

Theres at least one 650 on the board running 85-88 zx carbs and those are 32’s.

Technically a 674 now, but you look like you're going to land a fair bit higher than that when all your scheming comes to fruition.

[tourmax]

Theres at least one 650 on the board running 85-88 zx carbs and those are 32’s.

Technically a 674 now, but you look like you're going to land a fair bit higher than that when all your scheming comes to fruition.

I'm looking at maybe getting 66mm pistons in the bores, which woudl make 763cc's. Question is if I can get liners in there that will accept them on the CB650's bore spacing without breaking through the block....

[tourmax]

Well, 66mm are out. I’d have to put sleeves in the block that would break through in several places because the bore spacing is just too tight. So it’s a max of 65mm and probably will look for 64 or 64.5 mm. That will be right around the 740cc mark.

Also installed the new gauge faces:



That looks pretty sharp!

Speedo will require some fairly serious recalibration as its nearly twice the sweep as the “gov’t mandated” 85mph speedo, but it’s nothing I can’t get done, with enough time that is. Yes, its a metric sweep with imp on the inside. I’m in Canada and we’re kph here, so it works out nicely.

The tacho is the same sweep as the original 650 tach, but I loose the cable drive with the coil on plug change. Not a big deal as I plan to “gut” the original mechanism and use the tcip4 ignition to drive an electric sweep, which I can also refine in the tcip4 programming.

[tourmax]

Next idea:





I’ve always liked cbr shocks. I find them very versatile and unlike most oem shocks, they’re actually pretty decent on build quality and internal components. This will make 3 of my 4 bikes that will have cbr shocks. The one on the FJ is highly modified, but its still a cbr shock. It will take a little “reworking” of mounting points and moving the rear master cylinder a little bit, but I think its worth the effort.

[Kelly E]

I've used CBR1100 Blackbird shocks on a couple of small Sabre's and the 84' Interceptor 1000. There's no reservoir to get in the way of stuff. I made extensions for them because the early Pro-Link is under the swingarm. The results are great, much better than the factory air over spring shock.

[tourmax]

Well, got a little tired of trying to squeeze the R6 wheel into the rzv500 arm. Sooooo:

 

That gives me lots of room to fit the r6 wheel and get it to centerline on the bike, gives me a spot to tuck in the exhaust pipe and moves the shock back in to the swingarm area instead of mounted cantilever style as it is now. Moving the shock means I’ll have room again to relocate the battery and build a somewhat proper airbox.

Cost a couple bucks and I’ll have to adapt it at the swingarm pivot, but it its nothing I haven’t done before:



The cbr arm just makes for a nice neat package with the shock and linkage incorporated into the swingarm itself. All you have to do for the suspension is add a mount point for the linkage on the frame and you’re off and running…

[Kelly E]

That's a great setup. We're old hooligans so we just resurrect them, do some simple mods to improve the ride so we can ride them.

[tourmax]

That's a great setup. We're old hooligans so we just resurrect them, do some simple mods to improve the ride so we can ride them.

Thats cool, whatever puts a smile on your face I always say.

I’m more of a builder than a rider, so I get much as much enjoyment (maybe more)  building then as I do riding them.

I got most of the “hair on fire” stuff out of my system when I was a pup with roadracing at the local tracks. I was mostly a “middling” racer and was better at building bikes than racing them even back then. After a couple rather spectacular “get offs”, I pretty much gave up racing. But it wasn’t all a waste, most of the guys at the track noted how hard my bikes accelerated and how well they handled and I ended up building bikes for lots of local guys. These days, I just build for myself and its a hobby that keeps me busy (well, along with building cars and diesels that is)

[Gurp]

Was scrolling the eBay......


https://www.ebay.com/itm/1985-1986-1987-Kawasaki-zx600a-600r-Ninja-kiehin-carburetors-READ-description-/275277933178?mkcid=16&mkevt=1&_trksid=p2349624.m46890.l49286&mkrid=711-127632-2357-0

[tourmax]

Was scrolling the eBay......


https://www.ebay.com/itm/1985-1986-1987-Kawasaki-zx600a-600r-Ninja-kiehin-carburetors-READ-description-/275277933178?mkcid=16&mkevt=1&_trksid=p2349624.m46890.l49286&mkrid=711-127632-2357-0

thanks for keeping it in mind but the seller doesn't ship to Canada. They're also nearly double what i paid for the 36's with shipping.

[Stev-o]

That's a great setup. We're old hooligans so we just resurrect them, do some simple mods to improve the ride so we can ride them.

its a hobby that keeps me busy (well, along with building cars and diesels that is)

What cars?  I've started restoring old Corvettes and Mustangs...

[tourmax]

That's a great setup. We're old hooligans so we just resurrect them, do some simple mods to improve the ride so we can ride them.

its a hobby that keeps me busy (well, along with building cars and diesels that is)

What cars?  I've started restoring old Corvettes and Mustangs...

There's only two right now.

The (never ending) project:





The runner:





There's been many many more over the years, but the Mustang has always been around. The 'vette is relatively new (only had it a couple years) , but I've already been into the EFi programming and soon will start building a "big mouth" TPI project. There's not a lot to improve on teh "vette, other than bumping up the L98 a couple ponies. I'm only shooting for 350-400 hp, so nothing crazy, just a good (well, more than it does now) push in the back when you stop the throttle.

[Stev-o]

Coincidentally, I also have a Mustang and a Vette...





Have had the '70 C3 Corvette a number of years but recently picked up the '69 Mach 1 from my brother.  It sat in his shop for 5+ years, so it's a bit of a project but it is getting there.

[tourmax]

Coincidentally, I also have a Mustang and a Vette...





Have had the '70 C3 Corvette a number of years but recently picked up the '69 Mach 1 from my brother.  It sat in his shop for 5+ years, so it's a bit of a project but it is getting there.

You lucky SOB! I've lusted after a 69 mach for decades, but they're just too pricey for my pocketbook. I've always thought the 69 mach was the pinnacle of Mustang styling. Oh well, I'll go back to my usual "someday" coping mechanism.

Oddly enough, I'm not a big fan of the C3. They're cool looking, but I've just never taken to them. Not to mention, as i get...*ahem*...."older'...the C3 ride is getting rougher and rougher for me.

If I were to have one, it would definitely be an early C3 and not the "rubber nose" models. It's a bit strange that I'm not a C3 fan though, seeing as that was "the car" when I was still young and dumb.

My C4 is a different beast for sure. A little less curvy (and hated by some for it), but a lot more useful as a driving vehicle.

[tourmax]

Did a quick mock up with some spare parts:





Daum, that's beginning to look pretty serious! Everything is just propped into place, but it give a me rough idea of where it's going.

The swingarm needs narrowing to fit the pivot points, but the fit and centering of the rear wheel is already better. Clearnace at the rear of the arms for the wide wheel isn't an issue, as the CBR arm is designed to hold a big 17" radial.

That the shock mounts and brake caliper stay are already built into the swingarm is a huge plus.

Time to start thinking about making the frame “stiffer” to match its new “legs”.

Also, having the bike look serious but only 50-60 hp of poke isn’t going to get it. I don’t particularly like bikes that are more show than go, so taking it out to 740cc’s is almost a given here. I can appreciate the work that goes into an “aesthetic” build, but to me a bike has to function first and look good second.

Getting more poke out of what is already (essentially) a punched out 550 isn’t going to be simple, let alone “inexpensive”. Trajectory is probably punch it out to 654-ish first, and go up to the 718-740 range later on…

[tourmax]

Hmmm, I've always liked the look of trellis framed bikes:



Sexy and functional.

I've actually always had a fondness for the Spondon frames as well. Just a super cool looking 80's style custom:



that's a cbx1000, but I'm sure you get the idea.

I'm kind of stuck with a "cradle" style frame though, as that is how the engine cases are designed to be loaded. So it woudl be a "hybrid" trellis at best. I wouldn't trust the OEM engine mounts to "hang" the engine as a stressed member It's just not designed to be stressed that way. Not to mention, without a head mount, the engine woudl be too free to "jink around" under loading.

It's been a while since I last built a frame, but it's not that hard. It's just time consuming with making the jigs, getting good tig penetration, etc. Not to mention there woudl need to be several parts machined from billet (swingarm pivot plates, steering stem, etc). Heck, I don't even have a frame table anymore, so I'd have to build that as well.

I'm tying with the thought of making in aluminum, but I'm not sure I want to go through that extra cost or fabrication. Would sure shave several pounds off the bike though.

Ah, daydreaming.....always fun!

And sometimes, it leads to new and/or innovative ideas. It's one of the reasons I always encouraged brainstorming and "out of the box" ideas at work. It's a lot of the reason why my unit lead the way on so many missions. Always encourage creativity, in any of it's forms. Daydreaming or otherwise.

[MauiK3]

I would think getting the geometry right on a hand built frame would be very difficult.

[Stev-o]

Coincidentally, I also have a Mustang and a Vette...


Have had the '70 C3 Corvette a number of years but recently picked up the '69 Mach 1 from my brother.  It sat in his shop for 5+ years, so it's a bit of a project but it is getting there.

You lucky SOB! I've lusted after a 69 mach for decades, but they're just too pricey for my pocketbook. I've always thought the 69 mach was the pinnacle of Mustang styling. Oh well, I'll go back to my usual "someday" coping mechanism.

Oddly enough, I'm not a big fan of the C3. They're cool looking, but I've just never taken to them. Not to mention, as i get...*ahem*...."older'...the C3 ride is getting rougher and rougher for me.

If I were to have one, it would definitely be an early C3 and not the "rubber nose" models. It's a bit strange that I'm not a C3 fan though, seeing as that was "the car" when I was still young and dumb.

My C4 is a different beast for sure. A little less curvy (and hated by some for it), but a lot more useful as a driving vehicle.

Agree, the '69 is the pinnacle year of the Mustang.  Ran hot last time I drove it, need to diagnose the electric fan issue.

The C3's are for everyone, and yes, would only have one with the chrome front bumper.  The roads around here are excellent, so a rough riding car is not an issue for me. 

The two cars compliment each other, the Mustang is faster but the Vette has better handling in the Hills 'round here!

Would be boring if we all had the same cars and bikes, ya know?

[tourmax]

I would think getting the geometry right on a hand built frame would be very difficult.

Well, there's a method to the madness when using an existing bike.

You build your frame table, then you place the original on the table and then build your jig for the critical points. Then you take your original frame off the table and start bending/building pieces to connect the points on the jig. keeping in mind the objects you have to get into the frame (IE: engine, carbs, etc).

that makes it sound simple, but it's not really. The critical part is to make sure you build your jig properly and strong enough to resist the forces you put into the metal as you weld (or it will distort from the welding and ruin your frame).

There's also a fair bit of math involved, and the knowledge to use that math properly.

Now, a "pure" scratch build....that's a heck of a challenge to get right and at this age, it's a process I have no desire to do again. Those days are long behind me.

[tourmax]

well, the "new" carbs showed up today.

First off, the spacing is different than the zx6 sidedraft carbs so they don't line up to the intake ports:



The middle two are pretty much bang on, but the outer carbs are what you see in the pic above. That sucks, but it's nothing I can't deal with for what I'm planning.

They also sit pretty high in order to get the float bowls level:



Again, not ideal, but I do plan to rework the ports in the head and the frame can be dealt with easily enough.

Picked up a set of carb manifolds as well:



Those are key to making the plan work.

the plan is to rework the ports to fit the manifolds nd then the carbs will drop right in. Reworking will be extensive and should result in a semi downdraft design.

This will all be done on a spare head, so if I "trash it", no worries. I'll still have the original head to reinstall if needed.

[tourmax]

After a bit more measuring and sussing, it looks like a trellis style frame just ins’t going to work with the tank and bodywork.

So I guess it will be bracing and triangulating where I can and live with the rest.

Building a trellis means tossing out the tank and likely the side covers as well. Making a new tank is more than I want to get into. At that point, I might as well mount the engine on a frame jig and toss the rest of the bike away. I’m not looking to go that far with this old hack…

[tourmax]

Hmmmm….now that I think about it, I DO have a good tank form an 86 vfr750 out in the rafters….

[Alan F.]

I really like your thought process.