Topic: K1 late model - Winton Kit

[seanbarney41]

I have found that 810/811/812 kits were maybe slightly more common "back in the day" than 836, and of course there is no  definitive way to tell the difference other than tearing down or measuring.  Other than cam swaps, it is very rare to find valvetrain mods outside of maybe some beefier springs, also hard to visually identify without some sort of measuring device.  Gaskets usually look black to me, whether they actually started out that way, or heat discolored, or oil soaked...I don't know

Also in my experience and ironically enough, every engine that I ever bought where the previous owner claimed legendary historic engine mods, there were none....but then the most innocent looking garden variety k3 turns out to be full of Yoshimura or Action Four goodies.  That may just be the way things go for me lol

[newday777]

I have found that 810/811/812 kits were maybe slightly more common "back in the day" than 836, and of course there is no  definitive way to tell the difference other than tearing down or measuring.  Other than cam swaps, it is very rare to find valvetrain mods outside of maybe some beefier springs, also hard to visually identify without some sort of measuring device.  Gaskets usually look black to me, whether they actually started out that way, or heat discolored, or oil soaked...I don't know

Also in my experience and ironically enough, every engine that I ever bought where the previous owner claimed legendary historic engine mods, there were none....but then the most innocent looking garden variety k3 turns out to be full of Yoshimura or Action Four goodies.  That may just be the way things go for me lol

Cam ends will usually have numbers on the ends you can find with the valve cover off and porting can be seen looking in the open intake ports(carbs off)

[Stev-o]

Great looking bike...

[PeWe]

Aha! Action Fours cam.
I had their SS1 in the 80's with  836 and ported head.

My engine top end liked Action Fours ideas about the lobes. No aggressive lift nor closing. It ran really well. AFD cam owners seen in the mirrors

I used it again 2014-15. Later RC295 with more lift gave a little bit more power.
SS1 still my favourite for street and touring which worked fine.

SS2 have longer duration.

Strange that those cam profiles are no longer made. I'm sure better than Web cam cams with lower lift, <0.360".

[Shtonecb500]

I got the center stand on finally, Phil seems to think the motor is built up, he also took a look at #4 valve cap inspection and he said it looks like the keepers are getting pulled through. Further inspection necessary but he said I bought a nice bike.

Im also searching for reverse cone baffles, I found some but they have an OD of 3.75 and the OD of the pipes are 3.5....so im still searching but here is the one I found that is just too large.

If anyone knows of another brand making these reverse cone muffler ends with baffles pls link them.

[willbird]

I got the center stand on finally, Phil seems to think the motor is built up, he also took a look at #4 valve cap inspection and he said it looks like the keepers are getting pulled through. Further inspection necessary but he said I bought a nice bike.

Im also searching for reverse cone baffles, I found some but they have an OD of 3.75 and the OD of the pipes are 3.5....so im still searching but here is the one I found that is just too large.

If anyone knows of another brand making these reverse cone muffler ends with baffles pls link them.

I know easier to buy but I would think you could shrink that OD by cutting 355 degrees around it with a cutoff wheel of death ? That leaves you a ring attached by 5 degrees, then split that opposite the 5 degree tab still holding it on ?? I'd probably make total mess of it but be confident starting into it LOL.

[Shtonecb500]

I had a couple really good days in the shop. The first day I tackled the exhaust collars the pipes 1-4 then 2-3 to be installed, I removed the pipes and finished cleaning them up with steel wool and gave them a bath, then I proceeded to the dual calipers. I sandblasted two calipers and was able to source a few parts locally, a couple genuine honda caliper piston seals, the exhaust collars (zinc plated) and a combo adapter kit for the oil pressure gauge I had, all for 80 bucks. The line seat  came out fairly easily but I used a screw that was a little too large and it misshaped the perfect cone so the hole is a little wider, and shorter, it still seals I just had to tighten the hardline a little more. The flasher relay from my black bike was borrowed and I confirmed thats all the issue was, the turn signals all work on this gold k1 so we are all set there. The next thing I was able to do was remove my front tire and flip it around because I installed it backwards, arrow was facing the wrong way.

The next day I tackled the rear wheel which I had previously installed the 110 rear instead of the 120 that I wanted, it tried to give me a hard time for a moment but ultimately, the tire was defeated by me and the 120 is on. The rear brake assembly, the hurst air heart mc and caliper was taken apart and rebuilt by me, surprisingly the entire assembly works really well, I have great roll at the rear wheel and the stopping power is good enough considering their age. Once I had the rear brake bled and functioning well I proceeded to the front brakes, I almost got a full lever at the front but it was a long day and getting brake fluid flowing down the calipers was good enough for me so I stopped.


select 1080

[grcamna2]

Nice to see the brakes are now sorted 'stoppers'.
The custom rear air shocks that the bike came with which Winton? had designed?..
How do they compare on a ride w/ a standard set of dual shocks ?
Do they rebound freely,or are they a bit stiff ?

[Shtonecb500]

Nice to see the brakes are now sorted 'stoppers'.
The custom rear air shocks that the bike came with which Winton? had designed?..
How do they compare on a ride w/ a standard set of dual shocks ?
Do they rebound freely,or are they a bit stiff ?

Im glad the brakes are working out as well. Yeah the air shocks im taking about are the ones Winton built, they rebound really well actually, I had my gf get on the bike with me and bounced up and down and it felt great....I want to try to get them functioning and at least give them a fair shake before I swap on the konis.

Eventually I would like to buy some nice gold ohlins and rebuild the fork with race tech, call it complete.

[grcamna2]

Nice to see the brakes are now sorted 'stoppers'.
The custom rear air shocks that the bike came with which Winton? had designed?..
How do they compare on a ride w/ a standard set of dual shocks ?
Do they rebound freely,or are they a bit stiff ?

Im glad the brakes are working out as well. Yeah the air shocks im taking about are the ones Winton built, they rebound really well actually, I had my gf get on the bike with me and bounced up and down and it felt great....I want to try to get them functioning and at least give them a fair shake before I swap on the konis.

Eventually I would like to buy some nice gold ohlins and rebuild the fork with race tech, call it complete.

Will it be a little more time before you take it for a ride ?

[Shtonecb500]

Nice to see the brakes are now sorted 'stoppers'.
The custom rear air shocks that the bike came with which Winton? had designed?..
How do they compare on a ride w/ a standard set of dual shocks ?
Do they rebound freely,or are they a bit stiff ?

Im glad the brakes are working out as well. Yeah the air shocks im taking about are the ones Winton built, they rebound really well actually, I had my gf get on the bike with me and bounced up and down and it felt great....I want to try to get them functioning and at least give them a fair shake before I swap on the konis.

Eventually I would like to buy some nice gold ohlins and rebuild the fork with race tech, call it complete.

Will it be a little more time before you take it for a ride ?

I might try to take it down the road today, still dont have any baffles, might have to throw the front wheel on the balancing machine, finish bleeding brakes, tune up, teh chain guard I have for this bike isn't really working out so I may have to try an aftermarket chrome chain guard....I believe its not working out because of the larger rear sprocket and chain....ordering a 530 o ring chain shortly...the chain on the bike is slightly larger than it needs to be and the chain has lots of room to slide on the sprocket teeth back and forth.

[grcamna2]

Nice to see the brakes are now sorted 'stoppers'.
The custom rear air shocks that the bike came with which Winton? had designed?..
How do they compare on a ride w/ a standard set of dual shocks ?
Do they rebound freely,or are they a bit stiff ?

Im glad the brakes are working out as well. Yeah the air shocks im taking about are the ones Winton built, they rebound really well actually, I had my gf get on the bike with me and bounced up and down and it felt great....I want to try to get them functioning and at least give them a fair shake before I swap on the konis.

Eventually I would like to buy some nice gold ohlins and rebuild the fork with race tech, call it complete.

Will it be a little more time before you take it for a ride ?

I might try to take it down the road today, still dont have any baffles, might have to throw the front wheel on the balancing machine, finish bleeding brakes, tune up, teh chain guard I have for this bike isn't really working out so I may have to try an aftermarket chrome chain guard....I believe its not working out because of the larger rear sprocket and chain....ordering a 530 o ring chain shortly...the chain on the bike is slightly larger than it needs to be and the chain has lots of room to slide on the sprocket teeth back and forth.

 

[Shtonecb500]

Thanks for the direction on looking for mods.

The bike must have a barnette clutch in it cause its stuck like hell, it stalls when u drop it into first gear.  Got it running, got it rolling, then popped into second but the rear brake doesn't haven't enough power to really lock up the rear wheel and break the plates loose. I had this same issue with the cb500, had stuck clutch plates, even taking them out, cleaning them and putting back in didn't work....so ill just save myself some time and replace with new plates.

The wheels are polishing up nicely, I cleaned the rear wheel with some aluminum polish and its already outshining the front wheel after only one application. I managed to space out the chain guard and find the clearance in there that I needed, replaced the lock mechanism under the seat that latches into the frame because mine was bent, still don't have a firm brake lever at the front but Ill attempt bleeding the brakes again when I have new speed bleeders installed.

I must say, I've never had a built up 750 for myself but i'm excited, the bike pulls hard as hell, sounds mean as hell, doesn't sound anything like a stock 750. I'm geeked.

The front sprocket looks a little wider than stock, so im keeping all the sprockets and the chain thats on there...I was gonna buy a new 530 o ring gold chain but im gonna wait.


to buy/complete:

clutch plates, and gasket
speedo cable
new grips?
stock mirrors
if I can find a shorter tach cable, Id like to replace that too.
replace rear shocks
replace starter, which requires me to pull the carbs and stuff but I think I have a good functioning starter sitting on the shelf.
need two reverse cone baffles with a 3.5" diameter to fit this Hooke exhaust, or figure out a different exhaust. I have a few old school headers and pipes to choose from, just not sure what Id like on there.


this bike is so close, I wanted to be riding this while the black bike is down but luckily I have the gold 500 to scratch the itch.

take care.

[grcamna2]

Yeah Man  !

[Shtonecb500]

I think the rear shocks are a creation of Dan Hanebrink, I found a couple links that mention limited details often saying the same things.

http://teamheronsuzuki.blogspot.com/2021/01/monotrack-by-dan-hanebrink.html

https://www.pinkbike.com/news/rip-dan-hanebrink-inventor-competitor-and-mountain-bike-pioneer.html

He would show up with a monster—the Monotrack. This machine now sits in his crowded kitchen—because, you know, where else do you display a one-of-a-kind road racer? The spec chart is impressive and terrifying all at once. It started life with a 650cc, three-cylinder, two-stroke snowmobile engine. Hanebrink punched it out to 750cc. It powered the rear wheel (which Hanebrink made) via belt drive and a continuously variable transmission. The chassis was a magnesium monocoque. Hanebrink also built the springless suspension, which used oil to compress air in a remote reservoir. His favorite track was Willow Springs International Raceway, he says. Now, take a deep breath and imagine driving that thing off into Turn Eight at Willow with the throttle at the stop …


"The suspension had no springs, but relied on air and oil damping. The circular component on the fork bottom and rear strut contains a central neoprene diaphragm, which separates the oil and air. In use, the oil in the suspension struts compresses the air under load, allowing 41/2 inches of travel in the front forks and 4 inches in the rear. "

[grcamna2]

Quite a machine !! 
Can you get in touch with him to learn more about the design of the shocks ?

[Shtonecb500]

Clutch and starter have been replaced, my starter tested bad and was replaced with a good used one off the shelf. The clutch plates in the bike were indeed barnette and were VERY stuck together, doubt I would have been able to break those loose at all. Looks like my front axle is loose so the front wheel is coming off for that and balancing, sync carbs, new speed bleeders and bleed brakes, install new speedo cable.

After that I should be able to take this thing for a spin.

pics of old plates and the springs went back in....they are not the best pics but does this look like a port job?

[grcamna2]

Clutch and starter has been replaced, my starter tested bad and was replaced with a good used one off the shelf. The clutch plates in the bike were indeed barnette and were VERY stuck together, doubt I would have been able to break those loose at all. Looks like my front axle is loose so the front wheel is coming off for that and balancing, sync carbs, new speed bleeders and bleed brakes, install new speedo cable.

After that I should be able to take this thing for a spin.

pics of old plates and the springs went back in....they are not the best pics but does this look like a port job?

Pics?

[Shtonecb500]

Got the  bike out and down the road working it through all gears problem free, it felt great but needs tuning. Went to start the bike with electric start and it just spun, assumed a gear was missing so I pulled the alternator cover and the #$%*ing crankshaft is sheared off. Pictures of the damage, then a couple pictures of a spare crankshaft to compare.
 
The fastest and cheapest way back to a running bike would be to find a donor bottom end and swap everything onto that. Considering this motor and frame are pretty close in numbers I want to rebuild this one and make it whole .
frame 1117817
engine 1117649

168 unit difference....maybe thats pretty average though.
Incredibly disappointing but it is what it is, should be splitting cases on this in 2-3 weeks.


edit: Finished the baffles on a side note.

[newday777]

No! Bummer

[grcamna2]

I took the bike out and down the road, it felt great. Went to start the bike with electric start and it just spun, assumed a gear was missing so I pulled the alternator cover and the #$%*ing crankshaft is sheared off.

This project is dead in the water for now because of this…don’t have the time or money for two engine builds.

I’m guessing the fastest and cheapest way back to a running bike would to find a donor bottom end swap everything onto that?


Incredibly disappointing but it is what it is.

Ouch,sorry to see that !
I imagine the rotor was loose on the shaft 'taper' and spun-free for quite a few rides,which heat-treated the end of the shaft and made it brittle;which eventually cracks and the result..
I mentioned this problem to member Don R with his Suzuki GS1100E;those engines have very intense acceleration and this same thing happens to them,unless a person cleans up the shaft taper/s,then red Loctite on the shaft,then install the rotor and crank it down with a powerful air impact.

[Shtonecb500]

I took the bike out and down the road, it felt great. Went to start the bike with electric start and it just spun, assumed a gear was missing so I pulled the alternator cover and the #$%*ing crankshaft is sheared off.

This project is dead in the water for now because of this…don’t have the time or money for two engine builds.

I’m guessing the fastest and cheapest way back to a running bike would to find a donor bottom end swap everything onto that?


Incredibly disappointing but it is what it is.

Ouch,sorry to see that !
I imagine the rotor was loose on the shaft 'taper' and spun-free for quite a few rides,which heat-treated the end of the shaft and made it brittle;which eventually cracks and the result..
I mentioned this problem to member Don R with his Suzuki GS1100E;those engines have very intense acceleration and this same thing happens to them,unless a person cleans up the shaft taper/s,then red Loctite on the shaft,then install the rotor and crank it down with a powerful air impact.

thanks, its alright tho. Ill work through this...it felt so damn good riding this tho and shifting through all gears.

[grcamna2]

I took the bike out and down the road, it felt great. Went to start the bike with electric start and it just spun, assumed a gear was missing so I pulled the alternator cover and the #$%*ing crankshaft is sheared off.

This project is dead in the water for now because of this…don’t have the time or money for two engine builds.

I’m guessing the fastest and cheapest way back to a running bike would to find a donor bottom end swap everything onto that?


Incredibly disappointing but it is what it is.

Ouch,sorry to see that !
I imagine the rotor was loose on the shaft 'taper' and spun-free for quite a few rides,which heat-treated the end of the shaft and made it brittle;which eventually cracks and the result..
I mentioned this problem to member Don R with his Suzuki GS1100E;those engines have very intense acceleration and this same thing happens to them,unless a person cleans up the shaft taper/s,then red Loctite on the shaft,then install the rotor and crank it down with a powerful air impact.

thanks, its alright tho. Ill work through this...it felt so damn good riding this tho and shifting through all gears.

Did it ride like a 'hot machine' ? 
Good power over stock ?

[Kevin D]

Anthony, you are fortunate to be outfitted and surrounded with the skills to deal with this.
Already, you have your hands on a replacement crank, and a plan.
I have to get myself out to Crescent Lake road.

thanks, its alright tho. Ill work through this...it felt so damn good riding this tho and shifting through all gears

[Shtonecb500]

The Hanebrink shocks are removed and the Konis have been installed but these won't be up to the task of two up riding, now they are off of the bike I realize how much I enjoy them being on the bike. Much more robust units.

I’d say there is about 4oz of fluid in the system.

"The suspension had no springs, but relied on air and oil damping. The circular component on the fork bottom and rear strut contains a central neoprene diaphragm, which separates the oil and air. In use, the oil in the suspension struts compresses the air under load, allowing 41/2 inches of travel in the front forks and 4 inches in the rear. "