Author Topic: 1978 CB750F3 rebuild start  (Read 8561 times)

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Offline tctreppin

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Re: 1978 CB750F3 rebuild start
« Reply #75 on: September 11, 2023, 05:02:32 PM »
Thanks TC...Its a new harness but old blinker relay and ignition switch.  I am about half way through all the continuity checks and tomorrow I think I will double check the entire harness starting with the head light area.  Hopefully I just connected something wrong...I guess no such thing as an easy fix...
Thnx for replying , keep us all posted ! Your frustration,post, and ultimate fix is going to help a fellow rider one day!!!


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Offline majorzozo

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Re: 1978 CB750F3 rebuild start
« Reply #76 on: September 12, 2023, 03:29:21 PM »
Well after alot of trial and error all works now.  Started from scratch again and when done had the same issues.  No running lights, no brake light and blinkers blink but the opposite blinkers pulse as well.  Also no tach and speedometer lights.

1. What fixed the blinkers was disconnecting the brown / blue wire from the connector inside the head light bucket coming from the turn signal buzzer going to the turn signal switch.

2. What fixed the tach and speedometer lights was disconnecting the brown / white wires from the tach and speedo lights inside the head  light bucket from their original brown / white connector and reconnecting to a spare black 4 way connector within the head light bucket.  This black 4 way female pin type connector was not being used.  This was attached to the new main wire harness.

What fixed the running lights and tail light was running a wire from item 1 above to the black connector in item 2. 

How and why this works I have no idea but it all works now.  Started to static time (Dyna S) but couldnt get any power to the coils.  The kill switch has too much play going from run to off so will have to see if I can tighten that up.  New switch too....     

Offline tctreppin

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Re: 1978 CB750F3 rebuild start
« Reply #77 on: September 19, 2023, 01:22:46 PM »
Well after alot of trial and error all works now.  Started from scratch again and when done had the same issues.  No running lights, no brake light and blinkers blink but the opposite blinkers pulse as well.  Also no tach and speedometer lights.

1. What fixed the blinkers was disconnecting the brown / blue wire from the connector inside the head light bucket coming from the turn signal buzzer going to the turn signal switch.

2. What fixed the tach and speedometer lights was disconnecting the brown / white wires from the tach and speedo lights inside the head  light bucket from their original brown / white connector and reconnecting to a spare black 4 way connector within the head light bucket.  This black 4 way female pin type connector was not being used.  This was attached to the new main wire harness.

What fixed the running lights and tail light was running a wire from item 1 above to the black connector in item 2. 

How and why this works I have no idea but it all works now.  Started to static time (Dyna S) but couldnt get any power to the coils.  The kill switch has too much play going from run to off so will have to see if I can tighten that up.  New switch too....   
What a good brother !! Taking the time to help others down the road , AND ,showing us what you did in the wiring section thank you !


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Offline majorzozo

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Re: 1978 CB750F3 rebuild start
« Reply #78 on: September 21, 2023, 02:26:23 PM »
Spent a day trying to bleed the rear brake with no joy.  Tried every different way but just couldn't get fluid past the upper cup seal.  Finally tried a plastic syringe filled with fluid forced directly down the reservoir using some fittings from a mitivac set and worked good.

Was hoping the carbs were never messed with but found some damage on the #1 slide linkage.  The pin is loose and both pieces are bent.  Not even sure how that could have happened.  Maybe at one point the slide was stuck and the PO damaged trying to remove?  Good thing David Silver spares has one.

Ordered some guitar felt washers from Amazon for the carb throttle and choke shafts.  Worked good.  Sliced in half they are the correct thickness and the ID is perfect for the choke shafts.  Used scissors to trim to fit for the OD's and the ID for the throttle shafts. 

Offline majorzozo

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Re: 1978 CB750F3 rebuild start
« Reply #79 on: September 29, 2023, 02:49:10 PM »
Finally finished the carbs and airbox.  Lots of parts, hahaha. Unfortunately all 3 of my brake calipers are seeping a little.  Rebuilt with new parts but must not have cleaned them good enough.  Will try again.  Kicking around getting a Delkivic exhaust instead of going through the process of repairing and plating the original but I hate to stray from original.   Hopefully will be running soon.  This site has been a tremendous help.         

Offline denward17

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Re: 1978 CB750F3 rebuild start
« Reply #80 on: September 29, 2023, 03:12:33 PM »
Looks good, I forgot, did you repaint the engine?

Offline majorzozo

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Re: 1978 CB750F3 rebuild start
« Reply #81 on: September 29, 2023, 03:56:13 PM »
Thanks Denward.  Its been so long I almost forgot too.  Yes I did. 

Offline majorzozo

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Re: 1978 CB750F3 rebuild start
« Reply #82 on: October 13, 2023, 06:43:02 PM »
Finding it very difficult to get an exhaust chromed.  Picked up a Delkevic.  Didint come with directions and couldnt find any online specific to a 1978 F.  It took a while to get fitted properly and still have some doubts.  The exhaust came with head to pipe gaskets that  were round but squared off on the sides and OD.  I used these but the nuts that attach the pipes to the head only have 1 or so threads protruding through.  Seems there should be more.  I also used the supplied Sealant on both sides of the collector, some where the 4 header pipes enter and some where the muffler attaches.  Hopefully this is correct.  I think once I can get the original muffler repaired I should be able to slightly modify and use with this header.  Plan to rig a fuel tank (origial being painted) and try to start, time, and sync tomorrow.  Hopefully it fires up.   

Offline denward17

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Re: 1978 CB750F3 rebuild start
« Reply #83 on: October 13, 2023, 07:33:14 PM »
^Wow, that looks good, good luck!

Offline Kelly E

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Re: 1978 CB750F3 rebuild start
« Reply #84 on: October 13, 2023, 09:51:21 PM »
We have 3 Delkevic exhaust systems. Sounds like you did it right. We haven't had any issues with the exhaust gaskets other than snugging it up a couple of times.
We just put a black ceramic Delkevic exhaust system on the 82' CB 900F after the stock exhaust died and it sounds awesome. As soon as we get the re- jetted carbs back on we will test the hell out of it. 8)
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The Rust Bros. Garage Collection
1974 Honda CB 550 K0                                            1971 MGB/GT
1975 Honda CB 400F Super Sport                          1972 MGB/GT
1977 Kawasaki KZ 1000 LTD                                   1985 GMC S15
1978 Kawasaki KL 250
1980 Suzuki GS 1100E
1982 Honda CB 900F Super Sport
1983 Honda CB 1100F
1984 Honda VF 700S Sabre
1984 Honda VF 1000F Interceptor
1990 Moto Guzzi 1000 Le Mans
1994 Kawasaki Concours ZG 1000A9
2005 Harley Davidson Fat Boy

Offline majorzozo

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Re: 1978 CB750F3 rebuild start
« Reply #85 on: October 14, 2023, 04:22:21 PM »
Hi All,

If any experts out there please chime in.  Started for the first time today and have good news and bad news.  The good news is it started right up.  No smoking, leaking, burping.  All 4 cylinders firing.  The bad news is it will not idle without the choke.  It is obviously too lean.  The main and pilot jets are stock and the air / fuel mixture screws are 1 3/4 out and I adjusted the timing to the F mark at 1500 but with it only idling with the choke not sure how valid this is. My problems are:

1. Too lean.  When I rebuilt the carbs I noticed each slide had 3 shims each above the needle.  These do not show up in the parts catalog so I did not use.  Now I am thinking I should remove the slides and install these shims as this should richin the mixture?  Correct?  Or should I leave as is and adjust the air / fuel mixture screws out to maybe 2 turns?  Or do both?  I should be able to remove the slides without removing the carbs.

2.  PLease see the spring in the picture.  I believe this is for the accelerator pump.  It isn't strong enough to pull when the throttle is rolled on, in other words it lags.  I am thinking of cutting it and bending it up to be stiffer so it follows the throttle?  I did  move with my fingers while running and it seemed to make no difference so just not sure.

Any advice is aappreciated and thanks in advance...   

Offline majorzozo

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Re: 1978 CB750F3 rebuild start
« Reply #86 on: October 14, 2023, 04:28:13 PM »
I also forgot that with the choke on the throttle response is good but with it off it bogs.  Also when backing off the throttle it takes a second to come back down to idle.  not much but not instantaneous.  Thanks...

Offline newday777

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Re: 1978 CB750F3 rebuild start
« Reply #87 on: October 14, 2023, 04:37:10 PM »
When you "cleaned the carbs" how did you do it?
Did you just spray to clean? Deep soak? Or Ultrasonic cleaning?
Did you pull out the idle jets and clean the emulsion tubes?

2. Don't cut the spring.
« Last Edit: December 21, 2023, 01:03:05 AM by newday777 »
Stu
Honda Parts manager in the mid 1970s Nashua Honda
My current rides
1975 K5 Planet Blue my summer ride, it was a friend's bike I worked with at the Honda shop in 76, lots of fun to be on it again
1976 K6 Anteres Red rebuilding project, was originally my brother's that I set up from the crate, it'll breath again soon!
Project 750s, 2 K4, 2 K6, 1 K8
2008 GL1800 my daily ride and cross country runner

Prior bikes....
1972 Suzuki GT380 I had charge of it for a year in 1973 while my friend was deployed and learned to love street riding....
New CB450 K7 after my friend returned...
New CB750 K5 Planet Blue, demise by ex cousin in law at 9,000 miles...
New CB750 K6 Anteres Red, to replace the totaled K5, I sold this K6 at 45k in 1983, I had heavily modified it, many great memories on it and have missed it greatly.....
1983 GL1100A, 1999 GL1500 SE, 1999 GL1500A

Offline majorzozo

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Re: 1978 CB750F3 rebuild start
« Reply #88 on: October 14, 2023, 04:54:00 PM »
Thanks Newday.  I pulled everything apart soaked in carb cleaner, ultrasonic cleaned and then blew everything out with carb cleaner.  I did validate all the very small holes were clear using a .009 guitar string.  All new packings and O rings.

Offline denward17

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Re: 1978 CB750F3 rebuild start
« Reply #89 on: October 14, 2023, 06:39:13 PM »
Probably not all of the problem, but I do run my '78 K air/fuel mixture screws at 2 turns out, and it runs much better when warm.  The 1.5 turns was too lean for my bike.

Mine is a cold natured beast

Offline majorzozo

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Re: 1978 CB750F3 rebuild start
« Reply #90 on: October 14, 2023, 07:17:01 PM »
Thats good to know and thanks Denward.  When I get the tank back I might just try opening to 2 turns, riding around the block, time, and see where I stand.  If still no good then maybe take off the carbs, re-clean the slow jets, and install the 3 shims on each slide needle.  Always knew this would be the most challenging part of the restore but I guess its just trial and error.  Thanks again. 

Offline HondaMan

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Re: 1978 CB750F3 rebuild start
« Reply #91 on: October 26, 2023, 07:19:32 PM »
The PD42a/b carbs (yours might be the "b" model) have a lean idle circuit by design, and the idle mix adjuster screw's operation is the key to engine speeds below 1800 RPM. There is one critical item re; the idle mix screws' tiny O-ring(s) on that long needle of a screw. This must be installed above the tiny washer that these screws press on as you adjust them: they always seat snugly and then back out loosely, with the spring pressing the washer upward to help seal these tiny O-rings. In many PD42[n] carbs these tiny O-rings are hard (aged) if not replaced, or could be in upside-down ( i.e., on the bottom, the wrong side of the washer): both situations will cause the bike to not idle at all when cold unless the choke is on, and after it warms up it tends to not idle below 1700 RPM - it just dies instead. I find many of these tiny O-rings to be still and flattened, which makes them unadjustable in operation.

Another thing that will cause this sort of low-RPM instability is the ignition timing, specifically too much advance at idle. I've seen many Dynas that would not cooperate with this, because the pickups were too far away from the rotor's magnet. The pickups must both be the same distance away from the rotor-magnet's face, too. A timing light will help with this, although the critical setting is the one you're also struggling to get: the timing marks "1-4 F" and "2-3 F" must align on the indicator at idle, and not jitter back-and-forth. If they are jittering around, then the points advancer shaft is bent more than 0.006" out-of-straight and will need to be trued. Turning the engine backward with sparkplugs installed, using that tempting big nut by the points side, will bend the shaft, nearly every time! :(
See SOHC4shop@gmail.com for info about the gadgets I make for these bikes.

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Link to Hondaman Ignition: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=67543.0

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Link to website: www.SOHC4shop.com

Offline majorzozo

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Re: 1978 CB750F3 rebuild start
« Reply #92 on: October 26, 2023, 09:13:09 PM »
Good stuff, thanks Hondaman.  I will check it all.  The weird thing about the Dyna is every instruction I read has you time it using the advance marks.  Static and with a strobe.  Been away so once I get back home I will check it all.  Thanks again.. 

Offline majorzozo

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Re: 1978 CB750F3 rebuild start
« Reply #93 on: November 02, 2023, 01:54:32 PM »
Hi all,

Has anybody ever installed new tank badges.  The pins on the new badge are bigger than the old badges so they will not fit through the existing clip nuts on the tank strap.  The badges came with 2 spring type washers but how do you keep the washers on the strap before pushing on the badge?  Even if they would stay when you push on the strap the washers would push into the tank not allowing the pins to engage enough. 

Anybody have any advise or experience with this?  Thanks in advance.   

Offline newday777

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Stu
Honda Parts manager in the mid 1970s Nashua Honda
My current rides
1975 K5 Planet Blue my summer ride, it was a friend's bike I worked with at the Honda shop in 76, lots of fun to be on it again
1976 K6 Anteres Red rebuilding project, was originally my brother's that I set up from the crate, it'll breath again soon!
Project 750s, 2 K4, 2 K6, 1 K8
2008 GL1800 my daily ride and cross country runner

Prior bikes....
1972 Suzuki GT380 I had charge of it for a year in 1973 while my friend was deployed and learned to love street riding....
New CB450 K7 after my friend returned...
New CB750 K5 Planet Blue, demise by ex cousin in law at 9,000 miles...
New CB750 K6 Anteres Red, to replace the totaled K5, I sold this K6 at 45k in 1983, I had heavily modified it, many great memories on it and have missed it greatly.....
1983 GL1100A, 1999 GL1500 SE, 1999 GL1500A

Offline newday777

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Re: 1978 CB750F3 rebuild start
« Reply #95 on: November 02, 2023, 02:47:55 PM »
The nuts you have are for the side covers
Stu
Honda Parts manager in the mid 1970s Nashua Honda
My current rides
1975 K5 Planet Blue my summer ride, it was a friend's bike I worked with at the Honda shop in 76, lots of fun to be on it again
1976 K6 Anteres Red rebuilding project, was originally my brother's that I set up from the crate, it'll breath again soon!
Project 750s, 2 K4, 2 K6, 1 K8
2008 GL1800 my daily ride and cross country runner

Prior bikes....
1972 Suzuki GT380 I had charge of it for a year in 1973 while my friend was deployed and learned to love street riding....
New CB450 K7 after my friend returned...
New CB750 K5 Planet Blue, demise by ex cousin in law at 9,000 miles...
New CB750 K6 Anteres Red, to replace the totaled K5, I sold this K6 at 45k in 1983, I had heavily modified it, many great memories on it and have missed it greatly.....
1983 GL1100A, 1999 GL1500 SE, 1999 GL1500A

Offline majorzozo

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Re: 1978 CB750F3 rebuild start
« Reply #96 on: November 02, 2023, 03:36:53 PM »
Thanks Newday but the spring washers came in the bags with the tank emblems.  The clip nuts in your picture are too small.  The ID of those is too small for the after market badge post OD.

Offline newday777

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Re: 1978 CB750F3 rebuild start
« Reply #97 on: November 02, 2023, 04:21:00 PM »
You didn't mention the badges were aftermarket....
Stu
Honda Parts manager in the mid 1970s Nashua Honda
My current rides
1975 K5 Planet Blue my summer ride, it was a friend's bike I worked with at the Honda shop in 76, lots of fun to be on it again
1976 K6 Anteres Red rebuilding project, was originally my brother's that I set up from the crate, it'll breath again soon!
Project 750s, 2 K4, 2 K6, 1 K8
2008 GL1800 my daily ride and cross country runner

Prior bikes....
1972 Suzuki GT380 I had charge of it for a year in 1973 while my friend was deployed and learned to love street riding....
New CB450 K7 after my friend returned...
New CB750 K5 Planet Blue, demise by ex cousin in law at 9,000 miles...
New CB750 K6 Anteres Red, to replace the totaled K5, I sold this K6 at 45k in 1983, I had heavily modified it, many great memories on it and have missed it greatly.....
1983 GL1100A, 1999 GL1500 SE, 1999 GL1500A

Offline majorzozo

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Re: 1978 CB750F3 rebuild start
« Reply #98 on: November 06, 2023, 02:54:51 PM »
I believe I solved my Lean and idle problems.  Being in the aviation field my whole life I used the "shotgun" approach.  Basically checked and changed everything.  Specifically:

1. Added 3 shims each to all the carbs at the needle running through the slides.  These were on prior to the restoration but didn't think I would need.  Total for the 3 is approximately 1.2 MM.
2. Checked the fuel air mixture screws for proper O ring installation and adjusted each to 2 turns out.
3. Replaced the carb to head rubber insulators and clamps. 
4. Pulled the oil pan and cleaned the oil pump screen.
5. Replaced the RH side handlebar kill switch.  The old one was intermittant.
6. Timed the ignition and synced the carbs.

After warm up with the choke the bike comes to idle without the choke now.  Also once the choke is off there is no more hanging idle.

Somehow I developed rust inside the fuel tank while being painted.  Going to treat with Evapo rust for the night and hopefully within the next couple of days I can finally take it for a ride.  Been a long road but starting to see the light... 

Offline majorzozo

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Re: 1978 CB750F3 rebuild start
« Reply #99 on: November 06, 2023, 02:57:22 PM »
Forgot 2 other things.  Removed and cleaned the idle jets again and lubed the gator boot where the accellerator pump shaft runs through...