Author Topic: Global warming and horse manure, is it the same thing?  (Read 5796 times)

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Offline toycollector10

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Global warming and horse manure, is it the same thing?
« on: March 12, 2007, 04:43:48 PM »
I have just watched "The Great Global Warming Swindle" by Martin Durkin.

It's well worth a view, and is available on youtube in 8 parts. It is about 40 minutes long.

This film has reinforced my impression that the whole Chicken Little Global Warming Scare is just that, a whole lot of horse manure.

Future generations will probably look back on some the the idiocy that has taken place and view this era in a similar vein to the flat earthers and "yes, the sun does revolve around the earth" brigades.

I will now retire a safe distance and put on my flame proof suit and wait for the posts....................
« Last Edit: March 12, 2007, 10:01:06 PM by toycollector10 »
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Offline mlinder

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Re: Global warming and horse manure, is it the same thing?
« Reply #1 on: March 12, 2007, 05:23:19 PM »
I'm inclined to agree with you, for myriad reasons.
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Offline Steve F

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Re: Global warming and horse manure, is it the same thing?
« Reply #2 on: March 12, 2007, 05:32:13 PM »
I haven't watched the videos you're refering to, but I have my doubts too.....on the other hand you have to wonder where all the "greenhouse gases" are going, and how mother nature can cope or even keep up with all the crap we spew into the air.
Just this winter (I'm already talking like it's spring) when it gets to -10, -15F and you wonder how in the HELL global warming is even possible :D
I believe there is a warming trend, but it's often exaggerated.

Offline mlinder

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Re: Global warming and horse manure, is it the same thing?
« Reply #3 on: March 12, 2007, 05:34:20 PM »
I haven't watched the videos you're refering to, but I have my doubts too.....on the other hand you have to wonder where all the "greenhouse gases" are going, and how mother nature can cope or even keep up with all the crap we spew into the air.
Just this winter (I'm already talking like it's spring) when it gets to -10, -15F and you wonder how in the HELL global warming is even possible :D
I believe there is a warming trend, but it's often exaggerated.
"Greenhouse Gasses".
Did you know that termites produce more 'Greenhouse Gasses" than humans?
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Offline Roach Carver

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Re: Global warming and horse manure, is it the same thing?
« Reply #4 on: March 12, 2007, 05:45:18 PM »
The earth is not round, It is a half cylinder with rounded edges and 45 degree corners

and there is the proof

Offline Rushoid

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Re: Global warming and horse manure, is it the same thing?
« Reply #5 on: March 13, 2007, 07:32:00 AM »
I don't doubt the globe is actually warming, but I doubt that humans had much to do with it. It's a natural cycle and it's done it before. I didn't know that about termites, but I know man's contribution to the gasses is nothing compared to volcanic eruptions. If it is happening, there's nothing we can do about it - even if we quit using combustion engines and hold in our flatulence.
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Offline mlinder

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Re: Global warming and horse manure, is it the same thing?
« Reply #6 on: March 13, 2007, 07:56:29 AM »
I don't doubt the globe is actually warming, but I doubt that humans had much to do with it. It's a natural cycle and it's done it before. I didn't know that about termites, but I know man's contribution to the gasses is nothing compared to volcanic eruptions. If it is happening, there's nothing we can do about it - even if we quit using combustion engines and hold in our flatulence.
Actually, overall, there is some evidence that the globe is cooling.
The places that are reporting 'warming', are generally larger cities. Why?
Because there is no open running water, trees, or dirt in larger cities.
Mostly concrete, asphalt, glass and metal.
The cities themselves are microcosms of heat reflection material. Of course they are hotter than they were 50 years ago. They are 10 times larger with 10 times as much heat reflective material.
I lived in the forest, about half a mile from a small city in Arkansas for a while. I was surrounded by trees, had a running stream, and very little asphalt around me. In the summer, my house was a full 10 degrees F cooler than on the street a scant 3000 feet from my house. Same elevation, same lat. and long. for all practical purposes.
Where was the temperature measured? Why, at the television station in the middle of town surrounded by asphalt, of course.
However, the town is pretty goddamned small compared the vast areas of wilderness around it.
You tell me those temperatures were accurate for the area, and I'll box your ears till they ring to the tune of "I caught mommy kissing Santa Claus'.
Did you know that the south pole ice cap is actually INCREASING in size? Now, how the hell does that happen if it's warming up?
Besides which, these climate changes have happened every 20 thousand years for the last billion years. You are trying to tell me that we have something to do with that?
There's a million more things that just smack of liberal, bleeding heart bull#$%*, but I won't go into them just yet.
« Last Edit: March 13, 2007, 07:59:45 AM by mlinder »
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Offline nickjtc

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Re: Global warming and horse manure, is it the same thing?
« Reply #7 on: March 13, 2007, 08:26:22 AM »
Being the cynic that I am (and admitting up front that I have no idea whether 'global warming' is the threat that we are led to believe it is, or indeed how it has been caused) I can't help but wonder how much of all the brouhaha is down to political spin. As a result of all the publicity Al Gore has achieved on this issue (largely positive from an adoring tree hugger populace) can you see him saying no to running for president of the US again...?

The reality of the situation is that even if the western world did knuckle down and 'clean up its act' over the next twenty five years, or whatever time frame, the amount by which greenhouse gas emissions might be reduced is inconsequential compared to the increase of the same emissions in the 'developing' world, such as China and the far east.

When I was in Manila ten years ago on an optical mission the (vehicle produced) pollution was horrendous. The authorities were trying to control it by saying that the only vehicles allowed on the road on odd days were those with odd last numbers on their licence plates; even days, even numbers. What was the consequence? The people that could afford it bought another car with the opposite licence plate number. Net result: no difference.
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Offline DammitDan

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Re: Global warming and horse manure, is it the same thing?
« Reply #8 on: March 15, 2007, 08:04:42 AM »
I'm just curious...  Have any of you actually watched An Inconvenient Truth?  It's pretty enlightening.

If you don't think that the previous 150 years of industrial revolution have had any effect on the planet, then that's simply being ignorant for the sake of ignorance.  It is true that the Earth goes through warming and cooling cycles.  And it's true that we're on the top end of a warming cycle right now.  But isn't it only logical that a human phenomenon that has ONLY existed for the latter part of the last millennia might have an effect on the natural cycle that we aren't taking into account?  Of course temperature changes have happened in the past...  But the exponential rate at which industrial and consumer pollution is rising (which we can even SEE that pollution is having an effect; ever seen smog?) is bound to have a negative effect on the natural cycle.

I for one think that making a political issue out of this is wrong.  If it weren't Al Gore making all these statements (which he has been making since the 70s), do you think it would be taken more or less seriously?

To quote an interesting interview with a collegiate professor on the G Gordon Liddy show, "People need to stop listening to what talkshow hosts spout about what they only half understand, and start paying attention to what the scientists who are doing the research are saying."

I have experience with what this professor was talking about.  My brother in law works for the Tennessee Nature Conservancy as a field researcher (cave biologist), and during a local council meeting regarding ongoing construction in the area he revealed his research about the negative impact the construction was having on local watersheds (and therefore cave health).  Of course he was almost run out of town on a rail for even suggesting that new human expansion might be a bad thing for local wildlife and environmental health.  The council voted to continue construction regardless of my brother in law's research with no alteration to the current construction techniques to protect the watersheds, because it would have been too expensive to alter the construction process for such an unnecessary fact.

Is this the world we want to live in?  One where human expansion in the name of "progress" tramples over the environment we live in?  Where corporate interests are politically protected in the face of a global threat?  We are becoming our own worst enemies.
« Last Edit: March 15, 2007, 08:09:10 AM by DammitDan »
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Brent C.

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Re: Global warming and horse manure, is it the same thing?
« Reply #9 on: March 15, 2007, 08:15:42 AM »
Global warming believers need to study history again, 1600 years ago in the Medieval warm period. When settlers went to iceland and grew crops, yes iceland+crops.  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Medieval_Warm_Period

where were the SUV's and power plants then huh?? no really.....where were they?????

This horse#$%* over "industry causing global warming" is just a big ploy to get rich nations to pay a "tax" for their pollution. ::) what a scam!!

Mt. saint hellens put more "pollution" into the air Than all of mankind EVER!!! I am still waiting for a rebuttal on that point. ;)
« Last Edit: March 15, 2007, 08:19:10 AM by Brent C. »

Offline mlinder

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Re: Global warming and horse manure, is it the same thing?
« Reply #10 on: March 15, 2007, 08:25:06 AM »
Quote
But isn't it only logical that a human phenomenon that has ONLY existed for the latter part of the last millennia might have an effect on the natural cycle that we aren't taking into account?
Which effect would that be? You need to be a bit more specific (or any specifics at all might help.) If we are bringing logic into this, we had better have data to extrapolate logical conclusions from.
For instance, maybe you are talking about air pollution and smog?
Of course, Volcanoes give off exponentially greater air pollution than the last 100 years of industrialization has.

Quote
It is true that the Earth goes through warming and cooling cycles
Indeed. And theres little relevant evidence that we've actually had much of an affect on this cycle.

Quote
is bound to have a negative effect on the natural cycle
And what, pray tell, would that negative effect on the 'natural cycle' be? And while you are at it, perhaps you can tell us what the natural cycle ought to be?

Quote
To quote an interesting interview with a collegiate professor on the G Gordon Liddy show, "People need to stop listening to what talkshow hosts spout about what they only half understand, and start paying attention to what the scientists who are doing the research are saying."
And perhaps you should tell us which scientist to listen to? The ones with millions of dollars in grants that work for environmentalist groups? Billions, really? Make no mistake, 'Big Environmentalism" is on it's way to being "Big Business".

Quote
I have experience with what this professor was talking about.  My brother in law works for the Tennessee Nature Conservancy as a field researcher (cave biologist), and during a local council meeting regarding ongoing construction in the area he revealed his research about the negative impact the construction was having on local watersheds (and therefore cave health).  Of course he was almost run out of town on a rail for even suggesting that new human expansion might be a bad thing for local wildlife and environmental health.  The council voted to continue construction regardless of my brother in law's research with no alteration to the current construction techniques to protect the watersheds, because it would have been too expensive to alter the construction process for such an unnecessary fact.

This is unfortunate. However, many animals and their habitats (millions, actually) are ruined by 'natural cycles' constantly. Some of those natural cycles include one species dominance over an area that they had not had dominance over before.

I do think, though, that being reasoning beings, if a reasonable compromise can be made that would limit our impact on an area, it should be taken.


« Last Edit: March 15, 2007, 08:27:26 AM by mlinder »
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Offline nickjtc

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Re: Global warming and horse manure, is it the same thing?
« Reply #11 on: March 15, 2007, 08:33:08 AM »
So maybe our stance should be to let nature take its course, naturally, with us (humans) making as little impact as is possible....given that some impact is inevitable as a result of our need for power, consumer durables etc, etc...??
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Offline mlinder

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Re: Global warming and horse manure, is it the same thing?
« Reply #12 on: March 15, 2007, 08:36:59 AM »
So maybe our stance should be to let nature take its course, naturally, with us (humans) making as little impact as is possible....given that some impact is inevitable as a result of our need for power, consumer durables etc, etc...??

Nature will take it's course, regardless of what we do. What we do is in fact, part of the course of nature. As I said, many (all) animals have impacted their environment to some degree or another. To say otherwise makes little sense.
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holysmokes

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Re: Global warming and horse manure, is it the same thing?
« Reply #13 on: March 15, 2007, 08:39:00 AM »
well seing here in nova scotia,

 I drove my bike most of the winter..

not able to skate on ponds or lakes anymore, no ice

snowmobiling is almost non existant, now

3 weeks of winter in a 6 month season

my apple trees had blossoms in october

......................................................

in the canadian north, ice flows are melting , rapidly

polar bears are coming further south for food

we had robins here all winter

the seals here along the atlantic coast have noice to birth pups on


.............................


global warming, naw, its a lie

unless yoy live in as true 50/50 cold/warm climate, north of the US / canadian border


Offline mlinder

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Re: Global warming and horse manure, is it the same thing?
« Reply #14 on: March 15, 2007, 08:41:48 AM »
well seing here in nova scotia,

 I drove my bike most of the winter..

not able to skate on ponds or lakes anymore, no ice

snowmobiling is almost non existant, now

3 weeks of winter in a 6 month season

my apple trees had blossoms in october

......................................................

in the canadian north, ice flows are melting , rapidly

polar bears are coming further south for food

we had robins here all winter

the seals here along the atlantic coast have noice to birth pups on


.............................


global warming, naw, its a lie

unless yoy live in as true 50/50 cold/warm climate, north of the US / canadian border



While other places are getting colder...

I thought 'Global' kinda meant, you know, Global....

There have been natural instances of general local weather changes pretty much since the earth cooled down from being an entire ball of molten magma.
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Brent C.

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Re: Global warming and horse manure, is it the same thing?
« Reply #15 on: March 15, 2007, 08:54:06 AM »
Here in cheyenne we had over a month of sub zero temps!! and Just south of us, Denver had record breaking snowfall!!!

Offline DammitDan

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Re: Global warming and horse manure, is it the same thing?
« Reply #16 on: March 15, 2007, 09:30:32 AM »
Considering the "natural cycles" take thousands of years to make meaningful gains or losses.  Of course there's little relevant evidence that we've had much of an effect on the overall view of this cycle, seeing as how our modern industrialized civilization has only spanned the last few hundred years.  But just look at how different those last few hundred years have been as opposed to the entire history of the planet!  Especially considering the levels of greenhouse gases in our environment have been increasing exponentially in the last 50 years alone (how many cars per family did people have in 1900 vs. 1950 vs. 2000?).

The "effects" I was speaking of are ANY effect at all; be it global warming, ozone degradation, acid rain effects, smog, air/water pollution...  An effect is an effect, it's the cause we need to fix.

In regards to volcanoes, how much of that volcano's emissions are greenhouse gas does versus heavier-than-air particles (ash, smoke, etc)?  I don't know for certain, but I'm going to say most of the "pollution" you see from an eruption is superheated ash that cools and falls back to earth.  Besides, a volcano is a natural process in regards to the planet's evolution.  I don't know how "natural" you can call a smokestack or tail pipe.

Of course I don't have numbers or research that I can pull off the top of my head, but I can reference you to Al Gore's documentary.

And mlinder you didn't answer my first question:  Did you take the time to watch An Inconvenient Truth before towing the conservative party line?

So maybe our stance should be to let nature take its course, naturally, with us (humans) making as little impact as is possible....given that some impact is inevitable as a result of our need for power, consumer durables etc, etc...??

This is the most logical course of action, but it won't be realized until people stop treating environmentalism as a political issue and start treating it as a health (or even survival) issue.  Human impact is not a course of nature...   Nature molds the environment, true.  But humans try to master it.  In many times regardless of consequences.  I for one would rather NOT live in a world paved over with superhighways and with a WalMart on every corner, where you have to pay a museum entry fee to see "nature".

Global warming isn't about drastic immediate changes in our local forecasts...  It's about subtle overall changes of 1 degree here, 3 degrees there, that ultimately destroys the environment.  That's why you can have sub zero temperatures in Cheyenne and record breaking highs in Tennessee.  Floods in one country and drouts in another.
« Last Edit: March 15, 2007, 09:32:36 AM by DammitDan »
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Offline mlinder

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Re: Global warming and horse manure, is it the same thing?
« Reply #17 on: March 15, 2007, 09:49:22 AM »
woop... I'd like to make a correction to one of my statements before I go any further.\

Volcanoes release a lot of co2 very quickly, (more than we would in say, a year), however, overall, the total release of co2 by volcanoes is NOT as much as humans do over periods of time.

I'm at work, have some wrenching to do afterwards, but I will be back with more data.
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Brent C.

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Re: Global warming and horse manure, is it the same thing?
« Reply #18 on: March 15, 2007, 10:08:40 AM »
woop... I'd like to make a correction to one of my statements before I go any further.\

Volcanoes release a lot of co2 very quickly, (more than we would in say, a year), however, overall, the total release of co2 by volcanoes is NOT as much as humans do over periods of time.

I'm at work, have some wrenching to do afterwards, but I will be back with more data.

What about continuous co2 release? Hawaii, or even here in my state with Yellowstone?? There is always Co2......man is a pimple on earths ass.

Offline DammitDan

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Re: Global warming and horse manure, is it the same thing?
« Reply #19 on: March 15, 2007, 10:14:43 AM »
What about continuous CO2 release?  I fail to see the connection in argument between natural and unnatural CO2 emissions.  There have always been natural emissions; that's what causes the natural temperature cycles.  However, humans are now producing greenhouse gases where in the past humans weren't producing greenhouse gases.  The extra "unnatural" greenhouse gases produced by us are building up and having an effect on global climate.

A single man is a pimple on the earth's ass... but modern human civilization is a rash over the entire surface.
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holysmokes

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Re: Global warming and horse manure, is it the same thing?
« Reply #20 on: March 15, 2007, 10:19:56 AM »
not pimples, hemmoroids


the atlantic has warmed , that creates  vastly different temperatures here

actually global warming, is a mis term..kinda

with the different earth systems being in a state of flux, some places are colder/ warmer/ drier / wetter

dissappearing ice in the canadian north is just the rim of change, and yes there has been many heating and cooling cycles in the past for various reasons

i know what i see in my own 20 acres, it has changed

which goes to prove, this isnt a mind game being spouted by some special interest group, its happened before

even after 9/11 books were written, spouting outrageous schemes, hysteria sells, on both sides

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Re: Global warming and horse manure, is it the same thing?
« Reply #21 on: March 15, 2007, 10:23:41 AM »
What about continuous CO2 release?  I fail to see the connection in argument between natural and unnatural CO2 emissions.  There have always been natural emissions; that's what causes the natural temperature cycles.  However, humans are now producing greenhouse gases where in the past humans weren't producing greenhouse gases.  The extra "unnatural" greenhouse gases produced by us are building up and having an effect on global climate.

A single man is a pimple on the earth's ass... but modern human civilization is a rash over the entire surface.

Then give up your bike, your hot water, your stick built house. If you truly believe your statement you would live as a caveman before fire, because burning wood is "unnatural"  ::) I fail to see how you can make them differ. quit feeling guilty.

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Re: Global warming and horse manure, is it the same thing?
« Reply #22 on: March 15, 2007, 10:28:05 AM »
we have almost destroyed the north american continent in a few hundred years

it took the rest of the world thousands of years to do the same amount of damage

its all in Gods plan, and will continue to the end

humans are self destructive and have been since conception

this truth  will always get things going

Offline DammitDan

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Re: Global warming and horse manure, is it the same thing?
« Reply #23 on: March 15, 2007, 10:32:20 AM »
Then give up your bike, your hot water, your stick built house. If you truly believe your statement you would live as a caveman before fire, because burning wood is "unnatural"  ::) I fail to see how you can make them differ. quit feeling guilty.

Ignorance leads to pain, my friend.  I'm not guilty in the least...  I ride a fuel-efficient motorcycle, I drive an even more fuel-efficient car, I turn off the lights when I'm not in the room and I don't drive my car to the mailbox.  I recycle, I don't shop at wal-mart, I believe in conservation before consumption.  The difference is that I know that my presence could cause a cataclysmic shift in the environment, and I'm willing to do things to help allay those changes.

And thank you holysmokes, I had forgotten about that point of research.  Changes in ocean temperatures (even just a few degrees) change oceanic currents, which in turn alter weather patterns.  For example:  huge hurricanes in the gulf of mexico (which acts as a giant enclosed water heater).  Altered weather patterns affect jet streams, which can cause cooler-than-normal or hotter-than-normal temperatures in otherwise stable climate zones.
« Last Edit: March 15, 2007, 10:35:40 AM by DammitDan »
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Re: Global warming and horse manure, is it the same thing?
« Reply #24 on: March 15, 2007, 10:33:35 AM »
we have almost destroyed the north american continent in a few hundred years

it took the rest of the world thousands of years to do the same amount of damage

its all in Gods plan, and will continue to the end

humans are self destructive and have been since conception

this truth  will always get things going

Destroyed?? are you serious?  You need to get out more.....my home state looks pretty much the same it did 3000 years ago.

Why do you guys need to feel guilty? please explain.