Topic: Cam chain tensioner ajustment with electronic ignition

[bryanj]

OK now you tell us you have changed multiple patrs at the same time so one of the following is wrong
Cam grind
Follower refinishing
Valve stem length
Knowing Mike i doubt the valve stem length is wrong, it would be unusual for a cam gring to be wrong so i would first try a standard, untouched, rocker and see what happens

[flatlander]

if you're lobe centres are both around 105, they're totally ok. that was already stated in your previous thread from years ago.
while you're there with your dial indicator, can you measure max lift of the cam? that would tell if the grind is so wrong that it can cause your tappet adjustment issues. i would doubt it, but measuring takes away the doubting factor.

[AlekStooge]

Yes I should have mentioned those things. I am going to restart the whole process later today. Since the degree wheel got loose. Take off the cover find TDC again. I will measure the rocker faces. I don't think I have a micrometer though just a dial indicator.

[Keith]

What I would do: rotate until you have free play on the exhaust valve. Then with plugs  out slowly rotate the engine, the whole while feeling the exhaust rocker free play. I bet you can rotate until you find you have major play in the rocker. If so, you are adjusting while the cam is trying to open the valve.

[AlekStooge]

What I would do: rotate until you have free play on the exhaust valve. Then with plugs  out slowly rotate the engine, the whole while feeling the exhaust rocker free play. I bet you can rotate until you find you have major play in the rocker. If so, you are adjusting while the cam is trying to open the valve.

Aren't you supposed to adjust valve lash at that point? When the rocker feels loose not tight. Anyways it's off now.

[AlekStooge]

Here are the valve lift measurement. I've never done this so please verify I'm doing it correctly. Also I don't know what valve lift was on the stock cam?

Get the base of the indicator as level as possible. It's not perfect. Get the arm as close as I could to 90°. Put the indicator touching the base circle of the cam. Zero it out and tighten the bezzle and recheck it's at zero. Rotate the engine.

I did this several times. Re-adjust the dial zero it out and do it again and got close results.

I got around 265° on the exhaust + or - 3°

I got around 278° on the intake + or - 3°

Cam card is .270° exhaust and 285° intake. I would say any error would be negligable. It would be nice to know the stock for comparison.

Also I remembered I have an MLS gasket. I don't know how much that would impact valve lash. I did re-torque it after letting it sit overnight. Back it off and retorqued the next day.

[Tracksnblades1]

That’s how you measure camshaft lobe lift..
I like to preload the indicator at least .100 before I zero it to make sure my zero will repeat on the 2nd reading to verify the first measurement.

You can do the same on the lash adjuster like your earlier picture shows for valve lift. Sometimes rocker arm ratios aren’t perfect and your lash will subtract from the cam card value..you’ll have to preload the indicator around .500 inch though before you zero because your valve is moving away from the indicator.

[AlekStooge]

Right I went back around to see if it was 0 on the base it was sometimes of by .001.

The rocker faces look pretty even. I spoke to a machinest and he said you don't measure those or anything with a micrometer. The exhaust and intake look the same thickness. Again these were hardwelded.

I think we could confirm the grind of the cam is good.

[Tracksnblades1]

Can you eyeball the exhaust base circle right next to the intake base circle to see if you can see a difference?.. Like a small stair step up to the exhaust base circle from the intake base circle...

So like rotate the crank until both lobes point down. Place a small straight edge across both the exhaust base circle and the intake base circle inline with the camshaft and see if the straight edge lies flat across both base circles or whether it tilts up or down to get to one of the base circles. (machinist straight edge would be best)

[AlekStooge]

That's for cylinder 2.

[Tracksnblades1]

Lay a straight edge across it and see if it touches flat on both base circles..or if it has to tilt to touch them both.

[Tracksnblades1]

While you have your straight edge out. Straight edge diagonally across the cover machined flat surface by the exhaust valve stem  and compare it to the intake stem. Eye balling the stem heights initially.

[AlekStooge]

I didn't do this diagonally. I'll redo it tomoorrow. I'm done for tonight. The edge looked and felt flat with a little bit of finger pressure.

[Tracksnblades1]

If that’s a razor blade, hold it perpendicular with a light behind it. Itll be like in Missouri. It’ll show me. (You) 😁

[Tracksnblades1]

That's for cylinder 2.

I’m betting your exhaust valve is on the right in reply 59 picture..?

[AlekStooge]

Well no the picture was taken left side of the bike. The lobe appears to be on the right furthur away from me but exhaust valves are on the left.

[Tracksnblades1]

What valve looks like it sticking up higher in the photo in reply 23..?

It’s not letting me post the picture right now…😩

[AlekStooge]

What valve looks like it sticking up higher in the photo in reply 23..?

It’s not letting me post the picture right now…😩

It is cylinder 4 intake. On the left in the photo?

Hey man, thanks for reading through all this!

[scottly]

So, does your Ignition TDC “T” advancer match your degree wheel TDC paint brush mark..?

I’ll look at all your pictures to make sure I didn’t miss anything..

Well yes I found TDC using the piston stop method and just verified it by puting the handle of a paint brush into the spark plug hold on cylinder 1.

Not to distract from the topic and don't take this the wrong way, since it's most likely me not understanding something. I know ignition is not important at this moment. The TDC mark light on my ignition turned on 1° advance. I haven't touched this nor the cam position.

When you say advancer I am automatically think of the mechanical advance, which is not on. Is it necessary for me to take off the module and put the advancer on?

Here is the notch photo.

And it is on tdc compression on no. 4

Yes it is a TDC . Hang on I have to read through the posts because I don't know which stroke this is for cylinder 4. I think this may be what I was missing. (Ignition is not on in photo)

Your ignition is a known POS, and even the manufactures have given up on them, despite the claims of how "superior" it was to any other system. Regarding your cam timing issues, the C5/PowerArc rotor is not indexed to the crankshaft like the stock advancer base, so it can't be used to find TDC; in fact, you are supposed to turn the crank to TDC using the stock marks, then replace the advancer with the C5 rotor and hope nothing moves when you tighten it down.

[AlekStooge]

Yeah that's funny you mention that. Couple years ago everyone was raving about the multi spark ignition. I mean it works for now.

Yeah I figured the stock timing marks are useless with my setup but people didn't understand that. I am using the piston stop method of finding TDC. Works well.

[enwri]

Your first picture with the adjusters showing all the thread poking out, do the rockers move up any further if you pull them? They shouldn't be able to more than the .003 or whatever they are set to.. If they do it's the cam 180 out. 360 at the crank.

You mentioned earlier that you turned it over 360 from 1 to 4 and said 4 were loose, and you adjusted them. Weren't they all loose when backed off? How loose were they? like 3/8 of an inch or feeler gauge loose? They should have been the 3/8 type loose otherwise your cam is 180 out. 360 at the crank.

Ignition is irrelevant at the moment.

The notch in the cam can be at 3 or 9 o'clock.

If at 3 o'clock,  no. 4 is on compression,

If at 9 o'clock,  no. 1 is on compression,

In your picture the no.4 tappets are ready to adjust.

Turn the crank 360 degrees and no.1 tappets are ready to adjust.

Does the manual say set the cam to 3 o'clock and set cylinder 1 tappets?

Because that is not right. 3 o'clock gives no. 4 on compression. Like your photo shows.

[AlekStooge]

In the first picture with the threads sticking out. If I pull up on them after adjusting valve last yes they still pull up if I remember correctly.

When backed up they were on the tight end I'd say of the feeler guage. Ideally I would back the screw out more but that is not a possibility with given situation. I did a few times and the adjuster was off the thread.

I will have double check and note in which direction the cam notch is facing when adjusting the valves. I remember based on the lobes facing down, I was at compression before installing the cover, adjusters and adjusting them.

The manual has the photo at 3 O'clock and I have to look when home which valves it says to adjust.

[AlekStooge]

Wait, the notch is supposed to be above cylinder 4 correct. As in the ignition/points side? I remember when doing this originally that the notch was on the alternator side of the engine.

[enwri]

"Wait, the notch is supposed to be above cylinder 4 correct. As in the ignition/points side? "

Yes the tach drive will only work one way.

The clearance should never get bigger than the setting, only smaller until it compresses the valve spring.

[AlekStooge]

Based off of the position of the lobes this would be compression for cylinder four if the valve cover was installed.

This is where I adjusted valves for both intake and exhaust.