Author Topic: '76 CB 550 - I have carb questions... long and could be boring.  (Read 1544 times)

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Offline radcb550

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So I Finally set aside a few minutes to run the new right side switch wires and the existing left side switch wires through the new lower bars...  that went well.

Before running the wire bundles into the headlight bucket and connecting the wires I decided to have a look at the carbs, mainly due to having to install a new throttle twist grip which is incorporated in the right hand switch housing.

I lubricated the cables to enable actual movement of the slides.  Then figured I had better at least open the drains and see what happens there.  I was greeted with some really pretty fluid, I squirted carb cleaner up into the drains and that greenish juice cleared up nicely. Next, I pulled the right side carb bowl off, not too badly gunked up but not clean.

I pulled the primary (slow) Jet which is a # 38, oddly enough the Clymer Manual calls for the CB 550 to have a # 40 primary jet.  I cleaned the jet and was able to clear it but I wonder if I should replace all of them, this one is corroded, it will clean up.

Am I to understand that Main Jets are not replaceable...?  I found no way to remove this first one so I did nothing, you can see how corroded the jet is.

Now, I suppose I need to haul the entire bank off but Man, that looks like a major pain.  The Clymer's does not mention how to go about removing the carbs and I dread disturbing the cable linkage and all that.   
I have an ultrasonic cleaner to clean the carbs with.

Couple of questions:

Is there a better manual for the CB550s...? 

Are there particular carb rebuild kits that are better than the rest...?

Is there a certain best method to remove the carbs...?

I did see that @Duanob asked about Motorcycleparts Carb Kits and whether to use their jets or not.


Thanks much,
Rob

Carb bowl...



Junk in the bowl...



Main Jet...



Float...



Carb with air filter...


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Offline bryanj

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Re: '76 CB 550 - I have carb questions... long and could be boring.
« Reply #1 on: July 16, 2024, 02:24:02 PM »
Yes that jet will come out, but it is badly corroded. Normaly i would say clean and reuse the brass bits but you may have to give in and get new mains, Sirius consolodated in Canada for those but there web site is horrible.
Go to sohc.co.uk and look in alladins cave for the genuine honda manual to down load, you start with the 500 and then the 550 supplements.
For all the O rings to rebuild thecarbs ask Nurse Julie on here for a complete O ring kit, probably a good idea to get the oil pump kit as well to save onpostage.
Sorry to say you made a big mistake lubricating cables as the inner cable is rubber covered and the outer is nylon lined so oil makes them swell and drag
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Offline denward17

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Re: '76 CB 550 - I have carb questions... long and could be boring.
« Reply #2 on: July 16, 2024, 02:27:32 PM »
Where to start.......

I went through this a few months ago on my '76 CB550K.

#38 should be correct for this model.  I assume your carbs are stamped with 087A?

If your brass is original and undamaged, all you need to do is clean it, because replacing with original parts is nearly impossible, and after market parts may not work as well. I would tear them apart and clean everything in the ultrasonic cleaner.  Take out the emulsion tubes as well, clean the needles.

If you do, I would be interested to know what clip position they are in.

I got some replacement main jets from JetsRUS, had to carefully measure mine to get replacements, IIR, they were #100.

For new rubber bits, I think NurseJulie (UK) here on this forum sells viton replacement rubber kits, but not sure if she has anymore or if they include all the rubber seals.  I purchased kits from Honda (South Sound Honda).

Removing the carbs is no fun.  I removed the battery, battery tray, and the airbox, then the carbs.

Have you heard the bike run, when was the last time?  By the look of that float bowl, I think I would remove them, tear them apart and really clean them good, also check fuel tank and petcock to make sure no rust particles can make their way back after cleaning.

Offline BenelliSEI

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Re: '76 CB 550 - I have carb questions... long and could be boring.
« Reply #3 on: July 16, 2024, 02:29:50 PM »
Looking at your pictures, I have to agree. Do it now.

Offline Mark1976

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Re: '76 CB 550 - I have carb questions... long and could be boring.
« Reply #4 on: July 16, 2024, 02:50:04 PM »
Where to start.......

I went through this a few months ago on my '76 CB550K.

#38 should be correct for this model.  I assume your carbs are stamped with 087A?

If your brass is original and undamaged, all you need to do is clean it, because replacing with original parts is nearly impossible, and after market parts may not work as well. I would tear them apart and clean everything in the ultrasonic cleaner.  Take out the emulsion tubes as well, clean the needles.

If you do, I would be interested to know what clip position they are in.

I got some replacement main jets from JetsRUS, had to carefully measure mine to get replacements, IIR, they were #100.

For new rubber bits, I think NurseJulie (UK) here on this forum sells viton replacement rubber kits, but not sure if she has anymore or if they include all the rubber seals.  I purchased kits from Honda (South Sound Honda).

Removing the carbs is no fun.  I removed the battery, battery tray, and the airbox, then the carbs.

Have you heard the bike run, when was the last time?  By the look of that float bowl, I think I would remove them, tear them apart and really clean them good, also check fuel tank and petcock to make sure no rust particles can make their way back after cleaning.
+1 to the above.
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« Last Edit: July 16, 2024, 02:53:34 PM by Mark1976 »
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Offline HondaMan

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Re: '76 CB 550 - I have carb questions... long and could be boring.
« Reply #5 on: July 16, 2024, 05:16:31 PM »
Is there a better manual for the CB550s...? 
Not yet... ;)

The pilot jet #38 is probably the right one. Clymers and Chilton are both wrong. The 550 has #35 in some, #38 in others, and #40 in the last of the series.

To remove the carbs:
Release the clamps on the airbox side and the front side, both. Make sure they are loose: even just pulling the screws out will do it. Loosen the large clamp that holds the plenum to the air filter's box. (It's hidden down in the dark, behind the plenum.)
Remove the throttle cables, and then the carbs are ready to be removed.
The hardest part: making those hoses let go of the carb noses. That's where the 'hard' comes from, they are old friends now, and may be stuck together. Spraying some penetrating oil around their joints will help loosen things up, especially if you do it multiple times while wiggling the carbs. When they [finally] let go of the rubber hoses, pull them backward to compress the plenum a little bit, then turn them upward (at their front) to twist them free. Then you have to wiggle them out past their plenum hoses.

Soak those carb bodies (all together is fine if you have a large pan) deep enough to cover the carbs at least halfway, in gas. This will soak away that green stuff that someone tried to prevent gas going old with, but which just cemented things together when the carbs dried out.

After some soaking the mainjets will wiggle out.

DON'T replace this brass, if you can help it: the bike will not run with Keyster jetting (which most off-brand kits have).

After you get that far, post some more pix and we'll work you thru it. ;)
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Offline radcb550

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Re: '76 CB 550 - I have carb questions... long and could be boring.
« Reply #6 on: July 16, 2024, 05:38:09 PM »
bryanj,
How does the Main come out...?  I did not see a slot or shape of  wrench fitting to turn it out...  I took a chance on the cables not knowing whether that era had lined cale sheathes or not.  I can replace them.
10-4 on Nurse Julie... And the Tech Manual info.

Thanks.
Rob


=======================

denward17,
I actually enjoy rebuilding carbs, I do the Guzzis, Triumphs, XS Yamaha but this four bank has me nervous, not cleaning the carbs but pulling them and going back together without breaking stuff...!  lol  That airbox appears to be the biggest hurdle.

I have Not heard it run, bought it as a non runner knowing I had work to do.  The tank looks good and while it is off I will clean that and the fuel tap.

Thanks,
Rob


=====================


Mark1976 & BenelliSEI,
As mentioned earlier, I have rebuilt carbs for years, I find it very satisfying.  The hauling this bank off is the head scratcher.  The assembly that holds the carb and cable pivots etc... I am not at all familiar with that type of set up.

This is not a race, I have plenty to ride and this is a decent project.  Happy to have the facility to perform the work.

I am a little taken aback over the lack of parts sourcing.   

Thanks all,
Rob
Long time motorcycle and small sports car enthusiast...

Hondas, on & off road, Yamahas, Guzzis, Triumphs and an HD for two...  and a Dalesman Trials for good measure.
VeeDubs and MGBs...

Offline jonda500

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Re: '76 CB 550 - I have carb questions... long and could be boring.
« Reply #7 on: July 16, 2024, 05:46:55 PM »
Here's some more removing the carbs tips:

Loosen the clamps that hold the carbs in the engine manifold rubbers but don't loosen the clamps that hold the rubbers to the engine manifold.

Loosen and then completely remove the clamps that hold the air filter phelom rubbers to the carbs (or you will wreck the clamps trying to drag the carb bank past them).

Undo the front and rear air box mounting brackets from the frame to give a few more mm's wiggle room.

John
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Offline bryanj

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Re: '76 CB 550 - I have carb questions... long and could be boring.
« Reply #8 on: July 16, 2024, 09:11:42 PM »
It can be easier to unbolt the air filter box from the plenum chamber, i dont.
You can get new pattern rubbers for plenum to carb which are ok and Honda still sell the carb to head rubbers.

Whilst carbs are off remove the bolt on manifolds and replace the O rings, same as tapper caps and Nurse Julie does those as well, the Honda kits do not have enough O rings for the fuel tees but Julies kit does.

The main jet just pulls out and is sealead with a small O ring, also in Julies kit, those mains look very corroded and horrible so you may well have to replace, try and get oem if at all possible the jets are held in by the shaped spring clip held up by the float bowl.

Download the 500 parts book to see how it all fits.

The carbs are a pain to get in and out but it is possible and a LOT easier with new rubber bits.
Splitting the carbs off the bracket is relatively easy after you pop off the adjuster blocks, bit mor fiddley to re assemble but nothing a third, or maybe fourth, hand wouldnt make easier, at least the chokes go back easy not like the PD  devil carbs
Semi Geriatric ex-Honda mechanic and MOT tester (UK version of annual inspection). Garage full of "projects" mostly 500/4 from pre 73 (no road tax in UK).

Remember "Its always in the last place you look" COURSE IT IS YOU STOP LOOKIN THEN!

Offline RAFster122s

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Re: '76 CB 550 - I have carb questions... long and could be boring.
« Reply #9 on: July 17, 2024, 01:34:53 AM »
Do NOT buy aftermarket rubber intake manifold ribbers or you are likely to be buying again in less than a year if you put many miles on it. Possibly even if you don't...
The aftermarket rubber has issues and some has serious issues with any ethanol fuel...
South Sound Has carb rubbers available at reasonable prices.
David- back in the desert SW!

Offline Oddjob

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Re: '76 CB 550 - I have carb questions... long and could be boring.
« Reply #10 on: July 17, 2024, 05:26:39 AM »
Going to disagree with a lot of what's been said, not that it's wrong just that it could be a different solution needed.

Cables, ok to oil them IF they are aftermarket, most don't have any liner fitted to the inner cable, if they are genuine it's ok to use silicon oil but not mineral oil etc. The liner or sheath on the inner is teflon and it reacts to mineral oil by swelling but is fine with silicon.

On the butterfly system on the carbs, where the cables connect to just release the nuts holding the cables tight, start with the bottom or push cable, a single nut usually holding it to the bracket, release and slide cable out, disconnect nipple from butterfly and put to one side, same for the top or pull cable. Very easy really.

Main jet, as said it's held in place by a small oring so should just pull down and out, however most people tend to grab them with pliers and mark them, wrap it in a cloth before trying that. I don't think it's corroded, when petrol evaporates, as it does over time, it leaves a tar like residue, that's what is coating the jet, once that comes off you'll most likely find it's still looking ok. Hopefully. Boil all the brass in soapy water and see if that helps. The drain screws will be blocked, get some thin wire and have a dabble in there to see if you can get it all out. Pilot jets may look ok but look up them against strong sunlight to check all the crap is out, you should see what looks to be a small spiders web inside the jet, it's an optical illusion but usually means it's clean.

Once the cables are off and the clips are all loose the carbs will pull out, a lot of people just pop off the rear rubbers to get the room for them to go backwards, not saying that's a good idea or a bad idea, it works but it can be a little awkward getting them back into place. It's a lot easier than undoing the airbox for instance, your choice. If they are split anyway I'd certainly do it that way.

As for Honda carb oring kits, Bryan is right and wrong, he's right they don't have enough rings for the T pieces on the fuel lines, however the kit is for 1 carb only so 1 carb only uses 2 rings not 4. Buy 2 kits and you have enough to do one T piece, buy 4 and you have enough for everything. The problem being that it's likely but not certain the orings will be nitrile not Viton and so you may have issues using fuel with ethanol in it. The plus side is that the rings are the exact size specified by Honda and AFAIK all aftermarket ring kits are not, the sizes needed are unique to Honda and unless you get them specially made to order they'll be a compromise of the nearest size commonly available. Hence why most orings for the float bowl leave a little extra and you have to glue the ring in place (500/550).

Pulling the carb bank apart can look daunting but just have 5 boxes ready, I use plastic takeaway containers with lids, mark 1 to 4 and one marked body and keep everything separate. How's the throttle linkage bar looking? rusty?

« Last Edit: July 17, 2024, 05:29:21 AM by Oddjob »

Offline bryanj

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Re: '76 CB 550 - I have carb questions... long and could be boring.
« Reply #11 on: July 17, 2024, 05:34:51 AM »
I agree about the manifold genuine rubbers but i said plenum to carb pattern rubbers which is all you can get unless you find a nos complete plenum for megabucks.
The Honda carb kits i been sold onlybhave 1 Tee piece O ring in them so 4 i 4 sets but you need 8
« Last Edit: July 17, 2024, 05:36:25 AM by bryanj »
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Remember "Its always in the last place you look" COURSE IT IS YOU STOP LOOKIN THEN!

Offline Nurse Julie

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Re: '76 CB 550 - I have carb questions... long and could be boring.
« Reply #12 on: July 17, 2024, 05:42:23 AM »
Yes Bryan, fully stocked with Viton carb O ring kits.
I do them for the 350/400/500 and 550 carbs, but not the 550K3 Keihin PD carbs.
1 kit contains all O rings that is needed for 4 carbs.

« Last Edit: July 17, 2024, 06:30:27 AM by Nurse Julie »
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Offline Oddjob

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Re: '76 CB 550 - I have carb questions... long and could be boring.
« Reply #13 on: July 17, 2024, 05:53:30 AM »
Mine had 2 in Bryan. Maybe one had fallen out, spares departments used to rob them regularly. Mine was missing 2 of the others and I found a very small slit cut in the plastic to allow them to get them out.

Offline Stev-o

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Offline Nurse Julie

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Re: '76 CB 550 - I have carb questions... long and could be boring.
« Reply #15 on: July 17, 2024, 06:57:13 AM »
Yes Bryan, fully stocked with Viton carb O ring kits.
I do them for the 350/400/500 and 550 carbs, but not the 550K3 Keihin PD carbs.
1 kit contains all O rings that is needed for 4 carbs.

Here's the link to Nurse Julie's ebay listing for the o ring kit...

https://www.ebay.com/itm/166872157914?itmmeta=01J30ECS7WVE980RYANE6XJVZE&hash=item26da5b0eda:g:iS8AAOSw2A9egceq&itmprp=enc%3AAQAJAAAA4AddzlKFOuZmbGrgh9ERwoXSXGMmHbbbcYmv2xZmcyTWcy%2Fxrxac3V%2BYS8q7w%2BZ7S8W79%2B%2Fu0JtybuVOtbjd%2BBUh97%2FBQEv68ZEV39ZMRPcfb3PrM66rCI%2BppHQmiJeDhBeF%2FIZHxTPb7B0DZyT0JTEDaGhdXWN0Poyxt62ckJ5%2FcUoudeQNehuMEoaxewWD8old2PWKiIfA1mn5Xpigtde5WhBy%2BE5FVp4jWaQmIVYjTeX5LICdokxN%2FMIDKFlTJXyksugaos%2Bx3lSOAozZYOhaXSVChFUoSnpYFuIRIOTR%7Ctkp%3ABk9SR4CUs46YZA

Julie - is that the best way to buy them or...?   Thx for providing this service!

Thank you. It's best for members to PM on here. If I sell outside of my ebay page, I can give 10% discount and do post at cost. I've sold quite a few sets recently to members in USA and they are receiving them in 7-10 days, Standard International.
Many thanks.

If anyone buys multiple items, they all go in the same packet and the post is still done at cost for the complete package.
Here's a link to my little Ebay page 😊😊😊😊
https://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/julies9731/m.html?item=165142672569&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.m3561.l2562
« Last Edit: July 17, 2024, 07:02:45 AM by Nurse Julie »
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Online Deltarider

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Re: '76 CB 550 - I have carb questions... long and could be boring.
« Reply #16 on: July 17, 2024, 07:24:10 AM »
I agree about the manifold genuine rubbers but i said plenum to carb pattern rubbers which is all you can get unless you find a nos complete plenum for megabucks.
The Honda carb kits i been sold onlybhave 1 Tee piece O ring in them so 4 i 4 sets but you need 8
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Offline MauiK3

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Re: '76 CB 550 - I have carb questions... long and could be boring.
« Reply #17 on: July 17, 2024, 07:54:35 AM »
It will be an interesting journey!!
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Offline bryanj

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Re: '76 CB 550 - I have carb questions... long and could be boring.
« Reply #18 on: July 17, 2024, 07:56:29 AM »
It looks like the newer kits do have more O rings, i am fairly sure the kits i had were 004 but then i got hold of a really early parts book that gave individual part numbers and sizes for the O rings and locally we have one of the biggest suppliers anywhere, Dowty Hydraulics, whose parent company makes propellors for aircraft
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Remember "Its always in the last place you look" COURSE IT IS YOU STOP LOOKIN THEN!

Offline Oddjob

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Re: '76 CB 550 - I have carb questions... long and could be boring.
« Reply #19 on: July 17, 2024, 10:06:25 AM »
Even orings like the tappet cover and inlet manifolds on the 500/550 are not commercially available Bryan and they are a decent size, 30.8 x 3.2mm. Look that size up and I’m betting you won’t find them available off the shelf. I have a price for them but minimum order is 500. To get the orings made the exact size for the carbs is close to a £1000. That’s why people substitute them for sizes close to them, far cheaper. Saying that I once went to fit some manifold rings in a 550 and they were so bad I just couldn’t make myself do it. I ended up using old tappet cover rings. Some suppliers don’t care, just want the money.

I’ve heard of carb kits where you needed to hammer the main jet into place the oring was so big. Good luck getting that back out.
« Last Edit: July 17, 2024, 01:04:02 PM by Oddjob »

Online Deltarider

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Re: '76 CB 550 - I have carb questions... long and could be boring.
« Reply #20 on: July 17, 2024, 11:03:21 AM »
It looks like the newer kits do have more O rings, [...]
When you look at the picture...
http://www.cmsnl.com/products/packing-set_16010323315/

... I cannot help getting the impression that superseding the 16010-323-305 set by the 16010-323-315 Honda did indeed correct the error in the 16010-323-305 set which (at least in my case) had only one O-ring for the T-joint in each set.
Funny, Honda overdid things however, because now - looking at the picture - there are no less than 4 O-rings for the T-joint in each set. ;D ;D ;D
« Last Edit: July 18, 2024, 02:03:03 AM by Deltarider »
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Offline denward17

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Re: '76 CB 550 - I have carb questions... long and could be boring.
« Reply #21 on: July 17, 2024, 11:05:17 AM »
It looks like the newer kits do have more O rings, [...]
When you look at the picture...
http://www.cmsnl.com/products/packing-set_16010323315/

... I cannot help getting the impression that superseding the 16010-323-305 set by the 16010-323-315 Honda did indeed correct the error in the ... -305 which (at least in my case) had only one O-ring for the T-joint in each set.
Funny, Honda overdid things however, because now - looking at the picture - there are no less than 4 O-rings fot the T-joint in each set. ;D ;D ;D

4-5 months ago I bought the honda kits to redo my carbs, if I remember correctly there was about 4 extra for the fuel T joints.

Offline radcb550

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Re: '76 CB 550 - I have carb questions... long and could be boring.
« Reply #22 on: July 17, 2024, 03:17:55 PM »

4-5 months ago I bought the honda kits to redo my carbs, if I remember correctly there was about 4 extra for the fuel T joints.


So are you telling me that there is a chance that the local Honda Dealer Might be able to supply the carb rebuild kits, gaskets, jets, O-Rings etc...? 

Before I send Nurse Julie a PM...  Looks as if this is going to be a long haul to rehab these carbs.

Thanks,
Rob

Long time motorcycle and small sports car enthusiast...

Hondas, on & off road, Yamahas, Guzzis, Triumphs and an HD for two...  and a Dalesman Trials for good measure.
VeeDubs and MGBs...

Offline denward17

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Re: '76 CB 550 - I have carb questions... long and could be boring.
« Reply #23 on: July 17, 2024, 03:45:53 PM »

4-5 months ago I bought the honda kits to redo my carbs, if I remember correctly there was about 4 extra for the fuel T joints.


So are you telling me that there is a chance that the local Honda Dealer Might be able to supply the carb rebuild kits, gaskets, jets, O-Rings etc...? 

Before I send Nurse Julie a PM...  Looks as if this is going to be a long haul to rehab these carbs.

Thanks,
Rob

No, not telling you that, especially the jets.
South Sound Honda ordered my rebuild kits from somewhere, but just the gaskets/o-rings.

Offline Oddjob

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Re: '76 CB 550 - I have carb questions... long and could be boring.
« Reply #24 on: July 17, 2024, 03:47:57 PM »
If your local Honda dealer has stock then yes, jets are a maybe but best to see if you need them first. If they are 98 main jets for instance I have some spare I think, may also have some 38 idle jets as well. Genuine jets, not copies. I also have some emulsion tubes if required.

If needed I can also supply some new felt washers that are fitted to the slide lifter shafts, 4 of those, and the choke shafts use them as well, another 7 there. Those were never available separately and only came with a new carb body. I suspect your carb were flooded with water after the petrol dried up and it’s my feeling that’s the green stuff left after that also dried up. Like stagnant water with the green tinge. If that’s so I’d suggest inspecting the alloy inside the float bowl area closely as water can seriously corrode this type of alloy, especially that main jet tube.

Have you found the carb identification number yet? Should be stamped on the right hand side of the mounting flange where the carb bolts to the mounting bracket