Author Topic: You Too Can Respoke A Wheel! (NOW with Parts 1 & 2!!)  (Read 24599 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline stueveone

  • Hot Shot
  • ***
  • Posts: 346
Re: You Too Can Respoke A Wheel! (Part 1)
« Reply #25 on: March 21, 2007, 02:51:21 PM »
Nice work Jonsey. Lacing a wheel can seem daunting at first, but it's actually pretty simple. Truing on the other hand. . .Sure it's pretty straight forward but damn you can loose hours in it if you're not careful. I first started doing mountain bike wheels, then moped rims. Just recently I've done a pair of BMW 75's. They were insanely easy to spoke, but a little tricky at first to true.

Offline Jonesy

  • Shop Rat
  • Old Timer
  • ******
  • Posts: 2,648
  • "Damn! These HM300 Pipes Are Expensive!!!"
You Can Also True A Wheel! (Part 2)
« Reply #26 on: March 21, 2007, 05:38:02 PM »
OK, gang. I picked up the wheel bearings on my lunch hour and installed them when I got home tonight. With everything installed I could now begin the more challenging part- truing the wheel!

First, a few general comments. This is a detail-oriented job. The more patient you are and strive for precision, the better the result will be. Also, I found remounting the wheel on the swingarm satisfactory, but if I was to do it again I'd either borrow or make a truing jig. While you can work on the runout OK, it's tricky to get an exact offset measurement, with the swingarm having tapered sides. Also, if you are working with an older wheel, check the wheel bearings before you start. If the wheel wiggles a bit due to loose bearings it will be very difficult to get accurate results.

To start, assemble the rear axle, including the adjusters, spacers, wheel, brake plate, etc. as you would for final reassembly. Mount the assembled pieces on the swingarm and push the wheel all the way forward so that both sides of the axle are bottomed out in the adjustment slots. Tighten the axle down. You will need a dial indicator (or some form of pointer), a grease pencil or crayon, and a spoke wrench for the next steps.

Give the wheel a spin and look for any runout and get a feel for how the wheel looks. Mine wobbled a bit, despite careful building. (No matter how carefully you build up a wheel, it will always require some tweaking.) We will be working on radial runout (referred to as "hop") and axial runout (called "wobble").

One thing to note before we measure the wheel. Note the area where the rim was welded together. There will be some surface irregularity here (you can feel it when you run your finger over it) from the grinding, etc. during the wheel's production. Ignore this spot:



First, check the axial runout. Setup the indicator so that you are measuring either the outer or inner edge of the rim:



Slowly rotate the wheel and watch the pointer. Note the lowest point and set the dial to "0" at that spot.



My dial indicator is in millimeters. I gave the wheel a turn and the overall axial runout was just under 2mm. No spec is given in the Honda CB750 Shop manual, but another text gave a general "rough" rule of 1mm, so we have some work to do. Note the highest spot on the rim with your grease pencil and tighten the spokes in this vicinity, going no farther than just under half of the total spokes on the wheel. Tighten the spokes in quarter-turn increments sequentially (meaning the spokes in order, regardless of which side of the hub they go to as the goal is to get even pulling on both sides), rolling the wheel around between each quarter-turn pass to check the progress. If the wheel is showing improvement but the spokes on the high side are getting very tight, proceed to loosen the low-side spokes, again in quarter-turn increments. Keep repeating the "tighten on high, loosen on low" mantra until you cannot get the radial runout any better. This is something that as you go you will get a feel for it, but at first the progress will seem slow. I got my radial runout to just under 0.5mm.

Now, onto axial runout. Setup the dial indicator on the side of the rim:



Wipe off the grease pencil marks you made during the previous step and spin the wheel slowly, noting the high and low areas. Zero out the indicator at the low spot. My wheel read 2.5mm, with the Honda spec being 2mm max:



The tighten/loosen routine will be employed here as well, but a bit differently. We will focus on which sides of the hub the spokes are on, as the ones we tighten will pull the rim closer to their respective sides. On the low side, for example, you will work on the 4 or 5 spokes in the lowest spot. Tighten the ones on the side you are measuring from a quarter turn and loosen the spokes going to the opposite side a quarter turn. This allows the rim to move a bit while keeping even tension in that area so we don't mess up the radial runout we just worked so hard to perfect. Do the opposite on the high spot (so the spokes on the other side will pull the rim away from the indicator slightly) and remeasure. I was shooting for 0.5mm or less as this is the general rule for wheels to be run over 90 MPH. I don't plan on ever going that fast, but the CB750's top rated speed was 125 MPH, so why not aim high?  :D

When you are satisfied with the axial runout, go back and double check the radial:



When both the radial and axial runouts check out, go over each spoke and tap it with your wrench. They should all make a nice, clear "ping" sound. If you come across one that makes a "thunk" sound, tighten it up until it pings. Don't worry if all the spokes aren't tuned to the exact same pitch, but they will be fairly close. My wheel plays a bit of a tune, but all the spokes are good and tight.

A word about offset. From what I could tell, The rim was evenly spaced in the middle of the swingarm opening. With no solid measuring point it is impossible to get it measured down to the 10th of a millimeter, but just measuring with a ruler indicated it was very close. If you need to pull the entire rim one way, the procedure is just like adjusting the axial runout, except you'd snug up all the spokes on the side you want to pull towards, and subsequently loosen the ones on the other side. As always remeasure after every pass with the wrench!

I'm taking the wheel in tomorrow for the tire mounting, as I'm fitting a tubeless-type tire (which are a bear to mount by hand!) and I don't want to bark up my nice new rim! I'll leave it to the guys with the tire machine.

So, that's my experience. It's a bit hard to describe, as you have to work with it a bit to get the feel for it. The nice (and sometimes frustrating) thing about it is if you mess it up really badly, you can just loosen all the spokes up and start over again. I think I will still ask if the dealer can check them over, just as a double check since this was my first time with this. No publications list any tension spec for the spokes, they all just say they should ring when struck. I welcome any comments or requests for clarification of any descriptions. These will help me put the polish on this write-up before Bob archives it.

« Last Edit: March 22, 2007, 05:04:44 AM by Jonesy »
"Every time I start thinking the world is all bad, then I start seeing people out there having a good time on motorcycles; it makes me take another look." -Steve McQueen

Offline Bodi

  • Really Old Timer ...
  • *******
  • Posts: 5,696
Re: You Too Can Respoke A Wheel! (NOW with Parts 1 & 2!!)
« Reply #27 on: March 21, 2007, 07:50:58 PM »
I helped an expert respoke a British bike wheel years ago (helped... got in the way more likely). It had one hub flange about 6 inches diameter and the other about 12 inches - plus an offset. He measured the offset by laying a straight edge across the rim and measuring to the hub flanges. I'm grateful that Honda has equal diameter hub flanges at least.

Offline Jerry Rxman Griffin aka MuthaF'er

  • This MuthaF'er is getting to be a
  • Really Old Timer ...
  • *******
  • Posts: 14,912
  • Bought her new 4/75
Re: You Too Can Respoke A Wheel! (NOW with Parts 1 & 2!!)
« Reply #28 on: March 21, 2007, 09:55:56 PM »
Polish it?! That SOB already shines like new chrome! Great job on both the pictures and the excellent write up.
As of today 3/13/2012 my original owner 75 CB750F has made it through 3 wives, er EX-wives. Free at last.  ;-)

Offline CrisPDuk

  • Christ on a bike! Me, an
  • Expert
  • ****
  • Posts: 1,115
  • Oh happy day! 3rd December 2005
Re: You Too Can Respoke A Wheel! (NOW with Parts 1 & 2!!)
« Reply #29 on: March 21, 2007, 10:03:38 PM »
Blimey, a dial gauge and everything ;D  We never used them building up MTB rims ;)


Damned Good Job Jonesy 8)


Education: Elitist activity. Cost ineffective. Unpopular with Grey Suits. Now largely replaced by Training."


1978 CB550 K3
1985 H100S

Offline Jonesy

  • Shop Rat
  • Old Timer
  • ******
  • Posts: 2,648
  • "Damn! These HM300 Pipes Are Expensive!!!"
Re: You Too Can Respoke A Wheel! (NOW with Parts 1 & 2!!)
« Reply #30 on: March 22, 2007, 04:55:08 PM »
Thanks guys!

Here's the final product after tire mounting and balancing:



And back on the bike:



The weather is perfect for riding right now, but I'll have to wait until I get the front end back together... :(  Should be ready to go by this weekend, though. I'll report on the ride.
"Every time I start thinking the world is all bad, then I start seeing people out there having a good time on motorcycles; it makes me take another look." -Steve McQueen

Offline Bob Wessner

  • "Carbs Suck!"
  • Really Old Timer ...
  • *******
  • Posts: 10,079
Re: You Too Can Respoke A Wheel! (NOW with Parts 1 & 2!!)
« Reply #31 on: March 22, 2007, 07:26:25 PM »
Hey, Dan, did you know the rotational arrow is pointing the wrong way?

Just kidding. ;D Looks great, might have to try the whole wheel thing myself some time.
We'll all be someone else's PO some day.

Offline Jonesy

  • Shop Rat
  • Old Timer
  • ******
  • Posts: 2,648
  • "Damn! These HM300 Pipes Are Expensive!!!"
Re: You Too Can Respoke A Wheel! (NOW with Parts 1 & 2!!)
« Reply #32 on: March 22, 2007, 07:35:00 PM »
Hey, Dan, did you know the rotational arrow is pointing the wrong way?

Just kidding. ;D Looks great, might have to try the whole wheel thing myself some time.

Nice try, Bob... I checked it before I left the Honda shop!  8)

If you ever need a wheel tutorial, just give me a call...
"Every time I start thinking the world is all bad, then I start seeing people out there having a good time on motorcycles; it makes me take another look." -Steve McQueen

Offline bwaller

  • Really Old Timer ...
  • *******
  • Posts: 7,484
Re: You Too Can Respoke A Wheel! (NOW with Parts 1 & 2!!)
« Reply #33 on: March 22, 2007, 08:56:34 PM »
Nice improvement Jonesy, good work.

Offline Raul CB750K1

  • Old Timer
  • ******
  • Posts: 3,881
Re: You Too Can Respoke A Wheel! (NOW with Parts 1 & 2!!)
« Reply #34 on: March 23, 2007, 11:47:38 AM »
Good thread indeed. I have trued some MTB wheels and it can be confusing at first but it just takes a little realizing how it works. Tightening a spoke brings the rim towards that side, but when I had to, I used to tighten that one and loosen the previous and next -from the other side.

I didn't use a dial gauge, just a piece of wire bent to barely touch the rim and check for alignment. In MTB bikes, wheel truing is very important because the brake shoes rub directly on the rim, but in a motorcycle, a little side-to-side or up or down play is not that important, as the tire will accomodate to the imperfections and give an almost-perfect round surface.


Raul

Offline CrisPDuk

  • Christ on a bike! Me, an
  • Expert
  • ****
  • Posts: 1,115
  • Oh happy day! 3rd December 2005
Re: You Too Can Respoke A Wheel! (NOW with Parts 1 & 2!!)
« Reply #35 on: March 23, 2007, 10:57:18 PM »
This thread has made me start looking at the wheels of the swarms of scooters here in Bangkok :o

One of the biggest mods is anodised aluminium rims in a fantastic array of colours, and I'm sure they relace their own wheels. Sure enough if you watch them as they go past you, a fair proportion have wobbly wheels ::)

Doesn't seem to slow the beggars down much though :o
Education: Elitist activity. Cost ineffective. Unpopular with Grey Suits. Now largely replaced by Training."


1978 CB550 K3
1985 H100S

Offline rhinoracer

  • Hot Shot
  • ***
  • Posts: 664
Re: You Too Can Respoke A Wheel! (NOW with Parts 1 & 2!!)
« Reply #36 on: March 24, 2007, 06:50:50 PM »
Great job Jonesy!  8)  8)  8)

This whole forum is like a candy store, now I got to get me some of those new chromed rims.

What tires are those? I was planning on using what came with the bike but now i gotta have what Jonesy's got on his ride.
Baja native.

Offline Jonesy

  • Shop Rat
  • Old Timer
  • ******
  • Posts: 2,648
  • "Damn! These HM300 Pipes Are Expensive!!!"
Re: You Too Can Respoke A Wheel! (NOW with Parts 1 & 2!!)
« Reply #37 on: March 25, 2007, 04:56:06 AM »
I got a Continental K112 4.00x18 rear tire. Goes with the Conti RB2 up front.

I got them from http://www.onoffroad.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Product_Code=CONTINENTAL-STREET-K112&Category_Code=CONTINENTAL-STREET

"Every time I start thinking the world is all bad, then I start seeing people out there having a good time on motorcycles; it makes me take another look." -Steve McQueen

Offline Bob Wessner

  • "Carbs Suck!"
  • Really Old Timer ...
  • *******
  • Posts: 10,079
Re: You Too Can Respoke A Wheel! (NOW with Parts 1 & 2!!)
« Reply #38 on: March 25, 2007, 05:53:22 AM »
Just an FYI, Dan's original posting(s) re: wheel lacing and truing are now in the FAQ's under Wheels and Tires.
We'll all be someone else's PO some day.

Offline puppytrax

  • Expert
  • ****
  • Posts: 1,059
Re: You Too Can Respoke A Wheel! (NOW with Parts 1 & 2!!)
« Reply #39 on: May 20, 2007, 02:48:09 PM »
Let me add my "Thank You!" to Jonesy for this tutorial!   ;)

I have several CB500/550 wheels awaiting mounting, and since I had just mounted a new rear tire on my CL450, I decided to experiment on the front on the CL450. This is my temporary street/commuter bike, and had a pronounced case of front wheel hop (what we used to call "pogoing"). [I was also getting an alarming brake action...a "pulsing" of the front brake, which is odd since the CL450 uses a dual-leading shoe front brake].  I already had new bearings in stock [Timken 302KDD] and a new 19" front Dunlop K70 + tube/rim rubber, so that was the guinea pig. I mounted the stripped wheel with new bearings on the table of my mill, and dial indicated it. It showed ~.082" out of round (the "hop"), but very little side-to-side play - ~.012" ("wobble"). So I marked off a segment of the high side about 2/5 of the circumference, and tightened each spoke 1/4 turn. This lowered the high side ~.005". I did it several times more, and got it down to about ~.030"+. Those spokes were getting pretty tight, so I marked off a segment 180* opposite and loosened those spokes. This also moved the low side out about .005" per quarter turn. Due to the one side getting tight and the other side getting progressively looser, I stopped at ~.012" out of round. All spokes were "tinging" nicely, so I moved on to the side-to-side wobble. By working back and forth, I got it down to about .005", not counting the weld section. Good enough!

The dial indicator was useful for real world number comparisons, but I was able to get everything roughed out quicker by eyeballing the hop & wobble with a straightedge clamped to the table, and  just making running adjustments. Initially, the dial indicator confused me as to which actual direction to turn the spokes being worked on...several times I went the wrong way and had to undo my work...

The one wheel took me about 90 minutes. I just came back from a test ride, new tire, bearings, and "truing" completed, and it was nice and smooth. No "pogoing", and best of all [surprisingly], no brake pulsing. I still haven't figured that out, but I'm glad that I took the time to adjust the spokes.

(BTW: The rear wheel, which also got a new tire, wasn't off enough to bother adjusting; although it also got new bearings).

Finding a spoke wrench was difficult. The local Honda shop only had a "universal" nipple wrench, with 6 sizes on one wrench, instead of the required 5.7mm size only. I believe the wrench calls that a "#3" spoke nipple size. I don't see one in Dennis Kirk, so if anyone knows of a supplier, please post it (I'm thinking of the wrench which looks like a miniature tuning fork).

It's quick and dirty, and I could have done better by spending more time on it, but as someone once told me, "If you get it just about right, stop right there, because you'll never get it exactly right!"...

...   ;)...
...stock 1972 CB500 '500 Four' undergoing re-assembly...
...Stock 1972 CL450 'Scrambler' also being re-assembled...

Offline johnsy

  • Hot Shot
  • ***
  • Posts: 271
    • what I do!
Re: You Too Can Respoke A Wheel! (NOW with Parts 1 & 2!!)
« Reply #40 on: October 08, 2010, 09:26:25 AM »
Great post thanks. it helped alot
This was my first wheel truing experience....im one of those people, if i can pay another human to do it i should be able to do it myself. so i gave it a shot and it wasnt as hard as i thought it would be. A little common sence, some time on your hands, alot of patience and im sure you can make it happen.I started here,and took a few pointers from you tube Here is a breakdown.


equipment wasnt as pricey as most think.
go to Harbour Freight:
TRUING STAND $59.00
http://www.harborfreight.com/catalogsearch/result?category=&q=wheel+truing+stand
MAGNETIC BASE $9.99
http://www.harborfreight.com/multipositional-magnetic-base-with-fine-adjustment-5645.html
DIAL INDICATOR $11.99
http://www.harborfreight.com/1-inch-travel-machinists-dial-indicator-623.html

alos you can find coupons for this place in the back of most powersports magazines...mine was %20 off instore purchase.


1-daily driver, 2007 CBR 600rr
current project, cb550 four
75 360T

Offline GammaFlat

  • Master
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,565
  • humanitas, qualitas, quantitas and velocitas
Re: You Too Can Respoke A Wheel! (NOW with Parts 1 & 2!!)
« Reply #41 on: October 08, 2010, 11:01:14 AM »
Jonesy.. THANK YOU for this thread! 

I have been recently considering re-doing my wheels.  Strangely enough, I want to do them more to get at the hubs - so I can clean/polish them.  I guess the spokes aren't the best either.  If I do go to the trouble, however, I'd likely replace the hoops.  What is the skinny on getting replacements?  I guess OEM Honda is not a requirement for me... and probably rare/expensive.  I'm most interested in the correct size and good chrome.  Are there other aftermarket hoops that are reasonable? 

Again, thanks.  There are so many things I would never have attempted if it were not for the generous folks on this forum.   

John
K6
K7 
Suzuki GN400 - Ignition fixed!
03 KLR650 - Doesn't do anything very well but.. well.. does everything.

Offline lrutt

  • Expert
  • ****
  • Posts: 916
Re: You Too Can Respoke A Wheel! (NOW with Parts 1 & 2!!)
« Reply #42 on: October 08, 2010, 11:16:32 AM »
Great post thanks. it helped alot
This was my first wheel truing experience....im one of those people, if i can pay another human to do it i should be able to do it myself. so i gave it a shot and it wasnt as hard as i thought it would be. A little common sence, some time on your hands, alot of patience and im sure you can make it happen.I started here,and took a few pointers from you tube Here is a breakdown.


Interesting philosophy. Post another how to when you need a vasectomy  ;D
06 Harley Sporster 1200C, 06 Triumph Scrambler, 01 Ducati Chromo 900, 01 Honda XR650L, 94 Harley Heritage, 88 Honda Hawk GT, 84 Yamaha Virago 1000, 78 Honda 750K w/sidecar, 77 Moto Guzzi Lemans 850, 76 Honda CB750K, 73 Norton 850, 73 Honda Z50, 70 & 65 Honda Trail 90, 70 & 71 Triumph 650s, 65 Honda 305 Dream, 81 Honda 70 Passport, 70 Suzuki T250II, 71 Yamaha 360 RT1B, 77 BMW R75/7, 75 Honda CB550K, 70 Honda CT70

Offline johnsy

  • Hot Shot
  • ***
  • Posts: 271
    • what I do!
Re: You Too Can Respoke A Wheel! (NOW with Parts 1 & 2!!)
« Reply #43 on: October 08, 2010, 01:24:27 PM »
Great post thanks. it helped alot
This was my first wheel truing experience....im one of those people, if i can pay another human to do it i should be able to do it myself. so i gave it a shot and it wasnt as hard as i thought it would be. A little common sence, some time on your hands, alot of patience and im sure you can make it happen.I started here,and took a few pointers from you tube Here is a breakdown.


Interesting philosophy. Post another how to when you need a vasectomy  ;D


ALREADY CORNERED THAT MARKET... :P
1-daily driver, 2007 CBR 600rr
current project, cb550 four
75 360T

Offline SoyBoySigh

  • Enthusiast
  • **
  • Posts: 124
Re: You Too Can Respoke A Wheel! (NOW with Parts 1 & 2!!)
« Reply #44 on: May 21, 2015, 06:32:46 PM »
Hey - I'm lacing up an Akront 4.25x18" on a SOHC CB750F1 rear hub for my '82 CB900F Bol D'Or tribute to the '65 CB450K0 Black Bomber - aka "CB900K0 Bol Bomber".

And yeah this post is really helpful, even though this isn't the first wheel I've laced up. Probably counts as wheel #10 or #12 for me, IF you include the '69 CB100 x '70 SL100 hybrid I built when I was 16 counts (used both rear rims and tires, hub and spokes swapped on both front and rear) or the years of running a C70 Passport as the family car - I was hard on that/those bikes, riding 'em hard on one wheel all the time: two block long cat-walks on the back wheel when accelerating, endo stoppies on the front wheel when slowing down! Take a look at how small the C70's front hub is, and understand what all a drum brake can do when properly set up!

Wish I was using a drum on THIS bike to tell the truth, but am getting my drum-brake kicks on my "KZ440LOL" build. But yeah, next DOHC four I build, I wanna do a light-weight 750 single-seater with a drum up front. Even though I've already got some really sweet 2.50x18 & 3.50x18 alloy rims for the thing. 'Spose if I can ever lay hands on a Fontana 250mm 4LS, I can score another 2.5x18" Borrani, or re-drill this cheap used old Harley rim. Still - $40 & $50 for a pair of rims, plus $20 shipping, used but ready to lace up - I really should've used 'em on this 900 build!

But yeah, I'm sticking the rear disc on this bike, but hate how heavy this rear hub and rotor are. Heavier than the rear Comstar hub. Rear '82 Comstar RIM weighs the same as this 4.25" Akront, if you can believe it. That's 'cause the Comstar is a hollow-shouldered rim, basically one rim inside the other. Always gotta look at WEIGHT on the alloy rims - for the KZ project, the 3.00x16" Borrani weighs more than the Super-Akront 3.5x16" so pick only them if you REALLY like the look of the shoulders/flanges! NOBODY lists that type of info. I've gotta keep stats and list all the weights in my build thread.

Does anybody know off hand of a smaller rotor that'll fit the Super-Sport rear hub? I guess the later DOHC non-composite rotor from the earliest DOHC models should work, so long as it's five holes are replaced with six. Would really rather find something like a CBX750F or VF750F type of rotor which bolts up to these hubs! Was looking the other day, found out the ZRX1100 rear rotor fits the DOHC-four Comstars. Doesn't help ME, but it's good information - gleaned from hours spent perusing Galfer wave-rotor catalogues (YUCK!) and eBay listings for other aftermarket stuff. The FRONT end I've got the CB1100R type vented double-layer rotors, with CBX caliper hangers - I wanted to swap 'em onto the SOHC/GL1000 front carriers, but NOW I realize it's this rear CB750F1/GL1000 REAR rotor which makes the most sense. 'Cause it's lighter, but still 296mm! Wanna use Harley Juice-Drum rivets! Hanging out with my Harley-fan buddy pays dividends after all! Ha-ha.

ANYWAY hey - much as I like your tutorial, it seems as though there are a couple of things you may (or may not?) have over-looked:

I'm not as familiar with the SOHC bikes, but I was under the impression it was the de facto standard (though I'm unsure whether this really matters?) to leave the engraved/stamped lettering on the RIGHT side of the wheel. YOU'VE laced the wheel with the lettering on the cush-drive side, ie the left. Unless you're fitting this rim to a CB72/CB77, Harley Sportster, something like that? Just a brain-fart.

Also didn't find any mention of where to start the lacing so as to wind up with the AIR VALVE hole in between two groups of four spokes. Though I suppose it would be pretty cool to lace it the other way, with the valve in the depth of the apex underneath/betwixt the four crossed nipples -

(That's nice imagery ennit? Sticking your valve tube between the four criss-crossed nipples? Oh wait - the air that the air/gases come out of? Bad imagery all of a sudden. Where the air goes IN and comes out? As in a nostril? In between the nipples? Now it's a motor-boat. What's the other one? The rusty sputtering motor-boat? Ewww.....)

COUGH. Yes - as I was saying. If one were building say, a TUBE-LESS rim, using a more modern rim with the bead retention ridges, such as say - an Akront 4.25x18"-er? THEN one could stuff one of them side-pointing 80/90-degree Aluminum air valves. Under the apex of the group of four crossed spokes.

I realize there are ways of doing this which would utterly screw up the rim, that it's pretty much prevented by the directionality of the inner/outer & left-hand/right-hand types of spokes, as well as the direction of the rim's spoke holes themselves, but from what I gather in reading other wheel-building sites, it's SOMEHOW possible to screw the thing up that badly, and still have it all laced in a work-able fashion - more or less.

I suppose the thing to work from should always be an image of an OEM wheel - just so long as that image is showing the valve stem hole!

Well whatever - maybe I'm way off the mark here, maybe the lettering's SUPPOSED to be on the left side of the wheel, I dunno.

Just wish me luck with all the wheels I'm about to build! PHEW! Did I mention the KZ's a possible side-car candidate? That I've got spares all 'round, another 4.25x18" Akront drilled for Harley which will either get the "front hub trick" OR if it can be re-drilled a KZ750B conical hub (far far lighter, works with a smaller rotor etc) and even a spare 4LS Suzuki front drum in 3.00x16" Borrani? That's a HELL of a lot of wheels to lace up!

Got my KZ440LOL front wheel from Buchanan's the other day, "loose-laced" 'cause the spare hub has some trick ventilation, lightening, polishing etc done. So even THAT'S gotta be re-done. Though I'm happy just LOOKING at the thing for the time being.

Gotta update my Avatar I suppose - the old one had no spokes, was a GT550J 4LS hub and NOS Borrani 3.00x16" which I lost in a house-fire a couple years back. The NEW Avatar is the loose-laced version I just got back. Then at some point I suppose the NEXT Avatar should be the wheel built with the hub full of air holes etc, THEN at some point with a tire on it - Maxi-Scooter radial 110/70-16 like a scaled-down crotch-rocket tire of 120/70ZR17 spec - though bias-ply are a cheaper option - Michelin City Power or City Grip, 140/70-16 rear with all NOS belt-drive for '80 KZ440LTD, KZ400 hub, going with the same rim instead of the 3.50x16" Akront might even bump down to a 130/70-16 rear tire hell might even have to ditch the damn belt-drive to align the wheel properly seeing as Kawasaki had the 'LTD wheel kicked over an inch to the right - At which point, why the hell did I build a KZ440 instead of a SOHC-four like CB350F or CB400F???? Wouldn't use the Suzuki 4LS on anything bigger, it's really only a 200mm drum and only 125% the bite of a T500 2LS drum which is less than half the weight! I shake my head when I see that on a CBX-based Hailwood replica, or other quick & heavy bikes like that. Especially when it's supposed to connote racing pretensions..... Bah - I get off on this tangent and I can't stop myself! Ha-ha.

Honestly though - picture this:

Yanno how people are building the fake drum brakes from the CBX550F front Comstar hub, with the "internal" disc, which is another double-thick rotor like these CB1100R/GL1100A/CBXpro-link 296mm rotors, and only "internal" to a thin plastic shroud with huge air holes all through it, like a screen to keep the autumn leaves off it, there's absolutely no issue with air flow over them rotors, it's just that the damn thing's only something like 230mm!!!

Well - take a look at the GL1500 Goldwing sometime. Especially with the light-up rotor shrouds, 'cause they're styled just like the CBX550F hub with the two air scoops one above one below. Now ignore the GL1500 front rim, but look at the disemboweled front wheel from the PC800 Pacific Coast!

THAT wheel is just BEGGING to be cut apart and laced with straight-pull "nail spokes"!!!

Or maybe even the bent-head spokes, provided there's enough caliper-to-hub clearance, or some way to create enough clearance there by spacing the rotors and calipers out wider?

I do know THIS - that GL1500 front fork looks a lot like the forks on Freddie Spencer's AMA Superbike Champion '82 Daytona winner 1032cc "CB750F" - they're 41mm, TRAC anti-dive, 20mm axle, built-in fork brace, the only thing missing is Spencer's bike (never mind all of his team-mates ha-ha) the '82 Works Superbikes had special NISSIN floating calipers, a lot like the OEM DOHC calipers the twin-pot type but I THINK they might've been cast in Magnesium. The Caliper hangers/pivots aren't the same cast alloy bits as the GL1500 parts from 1988, and there are no external oil pipes running from the axle area halfway up the lower fork legs. I'm sure they're TUNED quite a bit differently as well. Would probably need some springs from another 41mm fork like the VF1000R etc. Tough to say. Might even wanna have the tops of the tubes cut & re-threaded, re-chromed even. Tough to say. But it would be a really awesome thing to build for a DOHC-four Honda, a Spencer-replica front end just like the bikes in the museums.

Heck, I've already gotta copy his steering damper mount, as I can't keep mine where it is while mounting the bubble fairing and CB1100R gas tank - with the polished "toaster-tank" sides which make up the brunt of the whole homage to CB450K0 thing. Relocate the damper, oil-cooler, every last damn thing really.

Friggin' wheels aren't gonna wind up on the bike until next year, what with all this other stuff going on. Just as well, when the Comstars have decent tires on 'em.

My 2.50x18" rear Comstar has a 140/80-18 rear tire, put there by the previous owner. Has me thinking I should lace up the CHEAP/"skinny" rims so I can stick that 140 on the type of rim it NEEDS. I really don't feel at all good about riding that tire the way the P.O. did it. It looks so damn pinched in there, like it just wants to pop out!

Seems like ... if I put too little air pressure in there, it'll pop off. Put too MUCH air in it, it'll pop off.

I gotta tell ya I feel better about lacing up my own wheels than I do about riding on THAT type of DIY mods.....

-S.

Offline oldhatt45

  • The person called in at the last minute to share the blame is the...
  • Expert
  • ****
  • Posts: 902
  • Just an Old Guy that's gone to the Dogs
Re: You Too Can Respoke A Wheel! (NOW with Parts 1 & 2!!)
« Reply #45 on: May 22, 2015, 08:20:50 AM »
SoyBoySigh,

Here is the missing info from almost every Respoking thread, document, video, etc.
I posted this in this thread originally.  http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,146766.msg1670514.html#msg1670514

==========

OK,  your problem is offset.

Look at the attached picture.

The reference is the Valve Stem.

The Green Arrow is pointing to the lower spoke end of the spoke to the right of the valve stem.
The Blue Arrow is pointing to the Spoke hole on the upper side of the rim and is just to the left of the Green Arrow hole on the lower side.
The 2 purple lines in the picture try to indicate that spacing.
The Red Arrow is pointing to the hole on the upper side where the spoke to the left of the valve stem goes.
So, if you count from the Blue Arrow hole starting at the Blue Arrow hole as one and count to the Red arrow hole, you have the correct spacing (which is 5).  :)

Hope this helps,

Once you know the offset, it only took me about 20 minutes to Respoke the Wheel.

Good Luck in getting yours squared away.

Charlie