Author Topic: ‘77 550f tapping noises  (Read 2987 times)

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Offline kerryb

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‘77 550f tapping noises
« on: October 25, 2024, 04:14:03 PM »
I got this a couple years ago and have put maybe 2000 miles on it.  The tapping noise is in the head, appearing after the bike warms up.  I have adjusted the valves carefully, so I assume it is worn cam bearings in the head.  So I got another ‘78 head to fix it.  Then I read a reference that said the 1977 year bikes also had the pinned rockers, so worn cam bearings may not be the problem.  Since this motor leaks oil from every gasket, it’s coming apart anyway but I still don’t know the correct way to measure the bearing tolerance of the cam bearings.  Is there a better way than plasti-gage to measure the clearance.  I also have two ‘78 motors to pick from so the measuring piece is important for me to know.
Can anyone tell where to start reading? 
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Re: ‘77 550f tapping noises
« Reply #1 on: October 25, 2024, 06:33:13 PM »
Looks to be a 550F2 in which case it should already have the pinned rocker shafts. If you remove the breather cover and can see 8 bolts it’s pinned, only 4 and it’s not.

The main problem with the pinned shafts is that they wear in one place only, so when you remove them you’ll see really shiny areas where it’s been wearing. If the oil isn’t changed regularly the wear can be substantial and the surface looks grooved due to debris in the oil. These shafts can be hard to locate if the wearing is allowing the rocker arm to move back and too. I had some shafts hard chromed in order to try and reclaim really badly worn ones but as yet I haven’t been able to test if it’s a solution to the problem, I strongly suspect it will be though. Any back and too movement on the rocker arms you can feel? Not side to side, front to back.

Offline HondaMan

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Re: ‘77 550f tapping noises
« Reply #2 on: October 25, 2024, 08:19:14 PM »
Sure looks like a nice bike!
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Offline kerryb

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Re: ‘77 550f tapping noises
« Reply #3 on: October 25, 2024, 08:29:14 PM »
Thank you to both of you,
Is plasti-gage the only way to measure cam journal clearance?
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Offline bryanj

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Re: ‘77 550f tapping noises
« Reply #4 on: October 25, 2024, 09:22:59 PM »
Never needed to, if there is obvious wear the head or cover is toast
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Offline HondaMan

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Re: ‘77 550f tapping noises
« Reply #5 on: October 25, 2024, 09:40:31 PM »
Plastigage is the defacto standard method, but it doesn't show runout, if it is present. This is an 'ovalling' of the hole(s) that, in this particular arrangement, would let the cam try to wiggle fore-and-aft in the oval-ed hole. The best way to measure that involves bore gages, not something many people have: if you want to be one of those folks you can get some Chinese-made ones for less that would be enough to do the measuring job - just don't trust them for fine work.  While an oval-ed bearing situation isn't common in this engine, it is caused when the oil was run too long for too many times, or if high-detergent oils were used for an extended time. Both situations make for oil that lost its lubricity sufficiently to allow bearing loading to exceed safe limits, and then the aluminum alloy wears as the cam bearings get striations on them in the direction of rotation. It's pretty obvious to the naked eye when this happens, though, so fancy bearing tools aren't usually needed to find it.

The bearing clearance is best measured under the cam, not on top of it, with the cam chain loosened up so it doesn't add artificial loading to the Plastigage and make it spread too much for the actual torque on it. You can loosen the chain in-situ by releasing the cam chain tensioner bolt of the [rear] chain-slipper-adjuster, then while pressing the middle of the slipper toward the back of the bike, re-snug the bolt to hold the slack on the chain. Then you can estimate your clearances with Plastigage on the top sides of the cam bearings - all this so you don't have to disassemble the whole top end just to check for clearances.
See SOHC4shop@gmail.com for info about the gadgets I make for these bikes.

The demons are repulsed when a man does good. Use that.
Blood is thicker than water, but motor oil is thicker yet...so, don't mess with my SOHC4, or I might have to hurt you.
Hondaman's creed: "Bikers are family. Treat them accordingly."

Link to Hondaman Ignition: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=67543.0

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Offline bryanj

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Re: ‘77 550f tapping noises
« Reply #6 on: October 25, 2024, 11:46:32 PM »
Mark i would love to see a bore gauge you could get into thos bearing spaces with the cover on
Semi Geriatric ex-Honda mechanic and MOT tester (UK version of annual inspection). Garage full of "projects" mostly 500/4 from pre 73 (no road tax in UK).

Remember "Its always in the last place you look" COURSE IT IS YOU STOP LOOKIN THEN!

Offline Deltarider

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Re: ‘77 550f tapping noises
« Reply #7 on: October 26, 2024, 12:37:32 AM »
KerryB, could you upload a video with sound of the engine idling and @ say 2700 rpm?
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Offline kerryb

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Re: ‘77 550f tapping noises
« Reply #8 on: October 26, 2024, 05:39:04 AM »
Wow, my head is starting to spin from overthinkin!  I bought the chinese bore gauges at a garage sale last year (a barn in the country full of antique custom hot rods) but I can’t figure out how to get them in there.  I’ll try to get a video uploaded, but don’t hold your breath, that’s harder than putting the carbs back on with old boots & airbox!
    It seems the most efficient repair would be to take this head off and hope the thirty years in the hedgerow didn’t ruin it (the inside of the tank is perfect!)
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Re: ‘77 550f tapping noises
« Reply #9 on: October 26, 2024, 07:56:06 AM »
Odd that your title says 1977 bike and on the frame is a dirty great sticker saying 78  ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

Offline kerryb

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Re: ‘77 550f tapping noises
« Reply #10 on: October 26, 2024, 08:13:30 AM »
Odd that your title says 1977 bike and on the frame is a dirty great sticker saying 78  ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

The first post describes the answer to that riddle.
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Re: ‘77 550f tapping noises
« Reply #11 on: October 26, 2024, 08:21:46 AM »
The title of the thread says 77 550 but the vin plate says it’s a 78, unless of course that bike is not the same as the title

Offline denward17

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Re: ‘77 550f tapping noises
« Reply #12 on: October 26, 2024, 08:28:52 AM »
The title of the thread says 77 550 but the vin plate says it’s a 78, unless of course that bike is not the same as the title
I think it is a spare bike he got for the engine..

Offline kerryb

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Re: ‘77 550f tapping noises
« Reply #13 on: October 26, 2024, 08:47:47 AM »
Unlike facebook, the introductory post here contains an explanation you can still access.
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Offline Little_Phil

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Re: ‘77 550f tapping noises
« Reply #14 on: October 27, 2024, 10:47:31 AM »
Lots of bikes marked 78 model have a manufactured dates in 1977 on the frames. I have one. Probably like it for other years.

Offline kerryb

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Re: ‘77 550f tapping noises
« Reply #15 on: October 27, 2024, 02:40:03 PM »
The date is easily found.
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Re: ‘77 550f tapping noises
« Reply #16 on: October 27, 2024, 03:04:30 PM »
We didn’t get the vin plate so please excuse my ignorance, when we did get them later on the large print 1977 bit wasn’t present. So are you saying the date of manufacture can be different from the year of model?

Offline kerryb

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Re: ‘77 550f tapping noises
« Reply #17 on: October 27, 2024, 03:11:04 PM »
All of the vin plates that I have seen show a manufacture date in the year prior to the model year listed.  I don’t know what the alternatives might be.
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Re: ‘77 550f tapping noises
« Reply #18 on: October 27, 2024, 03:19:35 PM »
This is a typical example of a VIN plate on Hondas in the UK, they didn't start to appear till around 1976.

https://www.sohc.co.uk/index.php/topic,8945.msg61237.html#msg61237