Author Topic: pods or airbox?  (Read 2743 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

carsholduptraffic

  • Guest
pods or airbox?
« on: June 21, 2005, 11:17:08 PM »
whats the latest on the pod vs airbox question?
i have foam filter on a modified airbox (only using top half with a plate clamping the exposed element to it) and it has run fine for many years. but the intake trumpets are no longer rubber enough to fit the carbs and the airbox at the same time. i'm sick of doing the whole silastic thing to seal the trumpet/airbox joint, so i'm tossing up whether to stump for new trumpets from david silver, or just go k&n pods.
tell me wise ones.
is it worth the hassle?

Offline Terry in Australia

  • Really Old Timer ...
  • *******
  • Posts: 33,289
  • So, what do ya wanna talk about today?
Re: pods or airbox?
« Reply #1 on: June 21, 2005, 11:44:41 PM »
Do you ride/park your bike in the rain mate? The airbox is an effective tool for stopping your engine ingesting a gutfull of water either when riding or at rest, but pods work ok, once you sort your jetting out remembering that pods flow so much better than the stock airbox you'll be running as lean as buggery with the standard jetting, you may have to go up several numbers before you get it right. Cheers, Terry. ;D 
I was feeling sorry for myself because I couldn't afford new bike boots, until I met a man with no legs.

So I said, "Hey mate, you haven't got any bike boots you don't need, do you?"

"Crazy is a very misunderstood term, it's a fine line that some of us can lean over and still keep our balance" (thanks RB550Four)

Offline TwoTired

  • Really Old Timer ...
  • *******
  • Posts: 21,805
Re: pods or airbox?
« Reply #2 on: June 22, 2005, 01:04:06 AM »
If you enjoy working on and modifying your machine, and becoming ace mechanic in the process, probably the K&N route is for you.

If you’d rather ride your machine than fiddle with its mechanicals,  go with the stock components.

Keeping the bike stock means that Honda has done all the engineering for making a bike that’s very streetable.  Since the carbs are tuned for the stock components, including the intake and exhaust flow characteristics, changing components may mean re-tuning the carbs.  There doesn't seem to be sufficient data widely available for the flow characteristics of the stock components or the aftermarket ones, to predict just what portion of the tuning needs to be changed or how much.  So, if you put pods on, for example, it may work fine.   Or, you may have to adjust; idle air bleed settings or Idle mixture screws, pilot jets, needle position, needle taper, and/or main jets in the carbs.  Or, maybe not.  It's try and run, read the plugs, make changes, repeat until you're satisfied (or fed up with the tedium).

You talked about the trumpets, so I'll talk about their importance/function.  They are shaped as they are to help maintain laminar flow through the carbs.  This, allows even metering by keeping consistent pressures at fuel metering exits into the carb venturi.  If this airflow is allowed to go turbulent you can develop low or high pressure gradients at those exits dependant upon air flow rate or throttle setting. This can give you flat spots in your acceleration where the carbs transition from rich to lean and vice versa because of turbulent patterns in the air flow.  You've seen a flag wave in the wind.  Turbulence from wind deflected by the flag pole exerts alternating low and high pressure areas on each side of the flag causing it move from side to side.  As these high and low pressure turbulent rolls travel across the flag, it appears to wave in the breeze.   When the wind blows faster, the frequency increases, there are more ripples in the flag wave.  The walls of the carburetor venturi are too rigid to wave.  But, if air flow becomes turbulent at the mouth of the carb, the same hi/ low alternating pressure ripples extend into the venturi where the jets release fuel.  This effects the jet flow, as the rate is determined by a pressure differential on either side of the orifice.  Change the suction on a straw, and the flow rate is changed when you sip your drink.

While I haven’t examined a K&N pod, I noticed the UNI pods do not mimic this trumpet at all.  In fact, I see nothing that would address any turbulent airflow issues.  I have to wonder why Honda addressed the issue but UNI did not?  Is UNI’s or K&N’s engineering better than Honda Motor Company?

Apparently a lot of people think so.  But, I think Honda got it right on this one.
Lloyd... (SOHC4 #11 Original Mail List)
72 500, 74 550, 75 550K, 75 550F, 76 550F, 77 550F X2, 78 550K, 77 750F X2, 78 750F, 79CX500, 85 700SC, GL1100

Those that learn from history are doomed to repeat it by those that don't learn from history.

Offline Terry in Australia

  • Really Old Timer ...
  • *******
  • Posts: 33,289
  • So, what do ya wanna talk about today?
Re: pods or airbox?
« Reply #3 on: June 22, 2005, 02:12:40 AM »
But if you just ran trumpets, wouldn't your balls get sucked into your carbs? Ha ha, Cheers, Terry. ;D 
I was feeling sorry for myself because I couldn't afford new bike boots, until I met a man with no legs.

So I said, "Hey mate, you haven't got any bike boots you don't need, do you?"

"Crazy is a very misunderstood term, it's a fine line that some of us can lean over and still keep our balance" (thanks RB550Four)

Offline oldbiker

  • Expert
  • ****
  • Posts: 1,101
  • I HATE RAIN
Re: pods or airbox?
« Reply #4 on: June 22, 2005, 02:21:45 AM »
That's alright for you, Terry. You've only got one, haven't you?

Offline MRieck

  • Really Old Timer ...
  • *******
  • Posts: 10,561
  • Big ideas....
Re: pods or airbox?
« Reply #5 on: June 22, 2005, 04:28:21 AM »
From what I've been told Aussie mens balls are so big they only need one! :D
Owner of the "Million Dollar CB"

carsholduptraffic

  • Guest
Re: pods or airbox?
« Reply #6 on: June 23, 2005, 05:12:43 AM »
i am not old enough for my balls to hang that low. one testicle is plenty in this harsh, dry land. i just keep a spare one in the tool bag.............
the bike has to be up to anything in terms of conditions, so i'm just wondering if i should deviate from the tried and true. ride a cb750 for long enough, and you know how it is.
jetting aside, are pods better or worse to live with?

Offline gkw120649

  • Enthusiast
  • **
  • Posts: 124
Re: pods or airbox?
« Reply #7 on: June 23, 2005, 06:56:35 AM »
I run a K & N in a stock airbox which pulls a lot better than the OEM filter. 
1977 CB-750 K
1978 CB-750 K

Offline MRieck

  • Really Old Timer ...
  • *******
  • Posts: 10,561
  • Big ideas....
Re: pods or airbox?
« Reply #8 on: June 23, 2005, 10:27:52 AM »
You can cut a 1" or 1.5" slot into the back of the bottom portion of your airbox too. Combined with an OEM K&N filter you get pretty good flow.
Owner of the "Million Dollar CB"

Offline Terry in Australia

  • Really Old Timer ...
  • *******
  • Posts: 33,289
  • So, what do ya wanna talk about today?
Re: pods or airbox?
« Reply #9 on: June 23, 2005, 01:53:51 PM »
That'd be my pick, I was surprised how much difference a foam "unifilter" made to my Suzuki GS1000S, I had to raise the needle 2 notches and play with the mixture screw (CV carbs) to get it spot on. I had pods on my K1, and although the bike was parked undercover (for 3 months, unridden) the moisture in the air was enough to sieze the engine!

I'd never seen it happen before, but it cost me a set of O/S pistons and a rebore, so that was the end of that. Having said all that I'll be putting pods on the Mikuni flat slides that I'm gonna use on my racer engine, I'll just have to make sure I ride it more often! Cheers, Terry. ;D
I was feeling sorry for myself because I couldn't afford new bike boots, until I met a man with no legs.

So I said, "Hey mate, you haven't got any bike boots you don't need, do you?"

"Crazy is a very misunderstood term, it's a fine line that some of us can lean over and still keep our balance" (thanks RB550Four)

Offline chippyfive50

  • Hot Shot
  • ***
  • Posts: 405
  • NO PEE ON TEPEE
    • thesweetimpala
Re: pods or airbox?
« Reply #10 on: June 23, 2005, 07:52:34 PM »
For a dependable rider I'd stick with the stock box. I have pods and open pipes  on my rodded 550 and it rips, but I had to jet it up to 105's and fiddle fiddle with it, i's a  hobby. My stock 750 is rock solid. (The humidity droppped off and the temp went down to 74 here in SW Ohio and the 550 was SCREAMING.  I was JAZZED UP).....   

the flight can still  be successful with only one astronaut left in the command module....   that's why there are four carbs right??
 

SOHC Member#4000
71' 500K0 #1021237--E1108327
78' 550
72' 750K2(sold to "Craig")
74' 750K4 #2306334--E2303422
73' CL175
http://gallery.sohc4.net/main.php?g2_itemId=14013

low-side

  • Guest
Re: pods or airbox?
« Reply #11 on: June 24, 2005, 07:27:12 AM »
Some people like pods for the look, and if that suits you, that's fine.  If you run true K&Ns, and keep them oiled water won't get in them while parked and your legs and engine block the rain while riding.  That said, you don't need them for a stock or near stock machine because they flow worse at low speeds and leave the carb assembly unsupported except for your rubber intake manifolds.  They are really only needed for high powered machines that require more flow than the stock airbox can deliver.  However you go, have fun with it.