Author Topic: sythetic oil  (Read 5534 times)

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Offline Pinhead

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Re: sythetic oil
« Reply #25 on: May 21, 2007, 12:38:06 PM »
Came across this article a few years ago. Pretty interesting reading indeed.
http://www.xs11.com/stories/mcnoil94.htm

Thanks for that lincoln.

I don't get MCN.  And that article was written in 1994.  Did any of the oil Manufacturers take up the offer to print more definitive test data since this printing?

I would expect not.  Such data would not educate the buying public in a way favorable to the oil companies, even though it is what they (the public) actually need.

Cheers,

Got to Amsoils website and look at their testing results. Take those results and go to the websites of Mobil 1, Castrol, Vavoline, etc and see if you can find all of that information posted. If you can, compare it and then see which is better. If you cant find it, call them and see if they will tell you. Id be willing to bet you run into so many hassles trying to find it or get it that you'll want to pull your hair out. Yet every one of them go through the same testing that Amsoil posts with their product information openly.

Make an apples to apples comparison. If Amsoil is better, then use it. If you find something else that does better, use that instead. Just be sure you make an apples to apples comparison. You can read the white papers Amsoil puts out and they will openly tell you when they didnt test as well as another product in a given category. If that particular category is important to you, then the choice should be clear.
Doug

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Offline rhinoracer

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Re: sythetic oil
« Reply #26 on: May 21, 2007, 03:35:34 PM »
Came across this article a few years ago. Pretty interesting reading indeed.
http://www.xs11.com/stories/mcnoil94.htm

This article bases it's arguments on a single viscosity test, which is only one of the multiple factors that provide protection to our engines.

The article didn't test chemical composition, molecular stability at different temperatures and pressures, didn't subject oils to shear forces, etc.

It just took the only factor with which it could win an argument and stuck with it.

Why didn't they spin a camshaft at 16,000 rpm and compare molecular stability after hours of use?

Why didn't they measure lubricity?

Why didn't it list advertised additives and compare with a chemical analysis to disclaim the advertisements?

Why didn't they compare thermal breakdown?

Why didn't they bang a 200 gram piston up and down 250 times per second (that's 15,000 rpm) and determine if there's metal to metal contact with the different oils after 5,000 miles of use?

I don't believe every claim the oil companies make about their oils.

But I don't believe that the mentioned article is saying one oil is better than the other or that all oils are the same. It is just focusing it's attention on VISCOSITY, if viscosity is all you care about in oils.

My point is : Don't believe everything you read including Motorcycle Consumer News, beacause truth can be misleading as in the mentioned article.
Baja native.

Offline TwoTired

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Re: sythetic oil
« Reply #27 on: May 21, 2007, 05:18:59 PM »
I have no illusions about the MCN test being thorough.  It focused on one point in manufacturer claims about an oil's superiority.  Certainly there are other data points about oil integrity/benefits.  But, if one can find a verifiable flaw in the information source stream, doesn't that cast doubt on other claims from the same source?  If viscosity breakdown is occurring at a rate higher than desired, despite promises to the contrary, what can you believe of other benefits claimed?

Thorough testing costs money and time.  Who is willing to fund such a project? The oil companies know that religion is easier to sell than product analysis, particularly to people who have no engineering, analysis, mechanical skills, or the desire to acquire same (much of the planet).

If available, would anyone besides me compare all the tests line item by line item to evaluate a quality conclusion?  Or, just pick a brand that has the API rating recommended by the engine manufacturer?  You know, the one you see advertised and/or the one you've been using in your vehicle for the last X years without known oiling issues?

MCN offered a data point, an eye opener with some verifiable test data that refutes some manufacturer claims that justify higher profits for them, and thinner wallets for motorcyclists.

Quote
My point is : Don't believe everything you read including Motorcycle Consumer News, because truth can be misleading as in the mentioned article.

Total agreement. 
But, the same can be said of oil company literature, as well as just how "truth" is defined. 
Who stands to make the most profit in what your read?  They will try to define "truth" toward their designs.

cheers,
Lloyd... (SOHC4 #11 Original Mail List)
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Offline merc2dogs

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Re: sythetic oil
« Reply #28 on: May 21, 2007, 08:11:39 PM »

 My outlook, and it may be slanted a bit, because I am just naturally very skeptical, is to look at reviews with an eye on who stands to profit by believing what you read.

 person 'A' will gain a great deal if you go by what they say.
 person 'B' has nothing to gain or lose if you believe or disbelieve what he says

 Who has the most to gain by hyping up the test results?  people who are trying to sell you something are not unbiased, they will choose the terms that shed the best light on their product. people who will gain nothing either way are far more likely to provide honest information.

 I prefer using oil and changing it regularly, I am not extremely picky about brand, I am picky about what's in it, don't like and won't use quaker state or pennzoil in anything because every motor I've opened up that's run them has had a seriously nasty dried foamy grunge layer inside, (QS worse one, they could have changed, quit using them years ago, but I don't feel like testing it)  prefer Valvoline and Kendall because every motor that I've torn into that's run them has been pretty clean inside, very easy to see the texture of the castings etc and I'd prefer the oil to keep the engine clean, not form a buildup inside.

 synthetics used to be true synthetics, most of them have become like orange juice, at just about any store you can buy orange juice that will proudly display "100% pure orange juice" in big bold letters accross the top, with the phrase in small letters towards the bottom "made from reconstituted orange juice, contains artificial flavors and colors" all you need is x% to call it 'real'

  which brings up an oddity, a homebuilt plane requires 51% home fabricated parts to be classed as homebuilt, any less and it's a kit and needs to follow different rules, but food and other products only require I think it's 10% natural ingredients to avoid being called artificial, what gives with that?
 
 
ken

Offline aptech77

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Re: sythetic oil
« Reply #29 on: May 21, 2007, 09:29:19 PM »
Use ....blue whale spoo

Offline Master Ted

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Re: sythetic oil
« Reply #30 on: May 21, 2007, 09:52:44 PM »
I used to run Golden Spectro (synthetic) in my Kaw for years without any problems whatsoever. Never had any issues with the clutch or engine wear.

The Golden is a blend with the Platinum being full synthetic (whatever that means these days). FWIW, The Golden Spectro is what the local Honda service dept uses. The dang stuff is priced at $8.50 in their showroom!
CB750/K2

Offline Bob Wessner

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Re: sythetic oil
« Reply #31 on: May 22, 2007, 03:49:08 AM »
Quote
The dang stuff is priced at $8.50


No wonder it's in their showroom. ;D
We'll all be someone else's PO some day.

eldar

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Re: sythetic oil
« Reply #32 on: May 22, 2007, 06:57:47 AM »
Pyro, if he had slippage, then it was,
A: the wrong oil. or,
B: The clutch was getting worn or rider error.

Dont blindly blame synthetics as they cannot cause clutch slippage unless one of the 2 above conditions is met.

Offline c_kyle

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Re: sythetic oil
« Reply #33 on: May 22, 2007, 07:27:39 AM »
My $.02:  Choose the best oil you can easily obtain.  Don't buy something you have to order online, etc.
Izanami, my 1979 CB650Z:  Clicky

eldar

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Re: sythetic oil
« Reply #34 on: May 22, 2007, 07:29:06 AM »
Well amsoil is difficult to get, either online or find a supplier. But it is probably the best oil out there.