Author Topic: Japanese Phillips Screws  (Read 3648 times)

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Offline andy750

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Japanese Phillips Screws
« on: October 11, 2007, 05:36:11 am »
I saw this post on another forum and thought it was interesting....

"OK, maybe most of you know this already but I just learned about it recently and so there have to be at least a few folks here that are unaware...

I've always heard that Japanese screwdrivers fit Japanese screws better, but I always thought it was maybe some industrial tradition in Japan to make them all at one end of the spec or something. Turns out Japanese Phillips screws are quite different from US ones, they're made to a totally different spec (the "Japanese Industrial Standard" or JIS, where the US spec is ANSI) and the heads are even stamped with a small identifier. Next time you're at your bike, look at the screw heads. If there's a dot next to the slot, then the screw is JIS Phillips, not US Phillips. My Triumph has these things all over the place because a lot of the subassemblies are Japanese.

Here's what the dot looks like:

http://www.katun.com/images/jis1.gif

Even though the screw in this picture is stripped you can still see the dot above the remains of the slot. If you come across one of these screws and it's tight, be very careful and exert a lot of pressure while removing it, as there's a good chance it will strip with a US screwdriver. Smaller screws seem to fit worse, e.g. lots of folks strip the little screws that hold float bowls on carburetors. If you google "JIS screwdrivers" you'll find a lot of angry folks on various forums that have stripped screws on model airplane engines and on old cameras.

If the situation appears risky you might want to order up a set of the correct screwdrivers. You can get a cheap set from:

Precision Screwdriver Set: Japanese Industrial Standard

or if you're a tool junkie you can get high quality from

- VESSEL Tools

The weird thing about this standard is that the big tool companies (Snap-on, etc) don't seem to make JIS screwdrivers -- which is odd in that you'd figure they'd be on all Japanese cars. The only folks that seem to make JIS screwdrivers are, well, Japanese screwdriver companies..."
Current bikes
1. CB750K4: Long distance bike, 17 countries and counting...2001 - Trans-USA-Mexico (CB750K4), 2003 - European Tour (CB750K4), 2004 - SOHC Easy Rider Trip (CB750K4), 2008 - Adirondack Tour 2-up (CB750K4) , 2013 - Tail of the Dragon Tour , 2017: 836 kit install and bottom end rebuild. And rebirth: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,173213.msg2029836.html#msg2029836
2. CB750/810cc K2  - road racer with JMR worked head 71 hp
3. VStrom DL1000 2003
4. XLR650L 2006

Where did you go on your bike today? - http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=45183.2350

Offline Short Round

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Re: Japanese Phillips Screws
« Reply #1 on: October 11, 2007, 05:49:56 am »
I have learned over te years that if there is a screw on my bike that does not want to come off using the usual force exerted by me, I will reach for my impact screwdriver, give it a wack and there you have it.  Screw out and still intact.  Now I'm just waiting on my allen screw set to ge here so I can throw all of them away.  Well back to cleaning my valve cover......................Chris
1974 CB550

Offline bozo4onion

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Re: Japanese Phillips Screws
« Reply #2 on: October 11, 2007, 06:15:22 am »
Who knew? Not me. Thanks Andy. This is what the forum is for huh. Cool. Now.....where do you get a Japanese phillips screwdriver.

Offline rhinoracer

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Re: Japanese Phillips Screws
« Reply #3 on: October 11, 2007, 08:04:34 am »
What I haven't been able to do is find where I can get them locally or someone who knows what I'm talking about.

Not that I really try, I only remember when I'm trying to get one off and by then I'm reaching for my impact driver like Chris said.
Baja native.

Offline johnyvilla

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Re: Japanese Phillips Screws
« Reply #4 on: October 11, 2007, 08:53:04 am »
Does anyone know where to find a good set of these? Ive searched and all I can find are tiny sized drivers for RC applications.

Offline azuredesign

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Re: Japanese Phillips Screws
« Reply #5 on: October 11, 2007, 08:55:03 am »
Very interesting Andy! For years and years I've always thought that Japanese fasteners were made from softer materials than  American or European ones. Either way thank goodness for allen head sets!

Offline JMURACN

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Re: Japanese Phillips Screws
« Reply #6 on: October 11, 2007, 09:06:01 am »
where are you guys finding these allen head sets you speak of?  i've been looking for several days now... and and after the frame is stripped and painted, the next step for me is the motor... and i really want to get my hands on them before i get too deep into the motor work.

Offline andy750

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Re: Japanese Phillips Screws
« Reply #7 on: October 11, 2007, 09:35:58 am »
In the FAQ:

"Jim Spillane, SOHC/4 Member #28, sells stainless-steel philips-head and allen-head screw sets:
Email Jim at spillane@metrocast.net for prices and availability."

Jims a good guy as well,
good luck,
Andy
Current bikes
1. CB750K4: Long distance bike, 17 countries and counting...2001 - Trans-USA-Mexico (CB750K4), 2003 - European Tour (CB750K4), 2004 - SOHC Easy Rider Trip (CB750K4), 2008 - Adirondack Tour 2-up (CB750K4) , 2013 - Tail of the Dragon Tour , 2017: 836 kit install and bottom end rebuild. And rebirth: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,173213.msg2029836.html#msg2029836
2. CB750/810cc K2  - road racer with JMR worked head 71 hp
3. VStrom DL1000 2003
4. XLR650L 2006

Where did you go on your bike today? - http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=45183.2350

Offline lhemrick

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Re: Japanese Phillips Screws
« Reply #8 on: October 11, 2007, 09:36:23 am »
I'm new to metrics, so thankyou for that info. I had no idea.

Lynn
Don't give up; Rust is only Temporary!
77 Honda CB750
70 Honda CB350 twin
71 Honda CB350 twin
72 Honda CB350 Four
72 Honda CB175
81 KZ550C2
81 KZ750H2
82 KZ750M1 CSR
84 ZN700 Shaft

Offline Helo229

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Re: Japanese Phillips Screws
« Reply #9 on: October 11, 2007, 01:59:39 pm »
I have learned over te years that if there is a screw on my bike that does not want to come off using the usual force exerted by me, I will reach for my impact screwdriver, give it a wack and there you have it.  Screw out and still intact.  Now I'm just waiting on my allen screw set to ge here so I can throw all of them away.  Well back to cleaning my valve cover......................Chris

That's the way to go man - I bought a set for my bike before I even had it delivered to me! I'll never understand why you would rely on philips to hold and engine together when you can't torque them down, regardless of that "stock look" or not. Get yourself a hex head socket and working on the bike is like Christmas. If, you know, Christmas was the time of year for bashing knuckles to hell and back, cursing like a pirate, bleeding occasionally, and making your neighbors angry as you test the bike with no exhaust installed.  ;D

Offline Gordon

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Re: Japanese Phillips Screws
« Reply #10 on: October 11, 2007, 04:22:46 pm »
I'll never understand why you would rely on philips to hold and engine together when you can't torque them down, regardless of that "stock look" or not.

Because the engine cover screws were never meant to be torqued down.  Having said that, though, I definitely prefer the hex-head screws to the stock ones, once they're out. 

There's been a thread about this in the "Tips and Tricks" section going on for a while now.
http://www.sohc4.us/forums/index.php?topic=25918.0

Offline Jerry Rxman Griffin aka MuthaF'er

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Re: Japanese Phillips Screws
« Reply #11 on: October 11, 2007, 08:52:08 pm »
Andy,

This is boring  ;). I thought you were going to tell us about more of your Japanese adventures  ;D
As of today 3/13/2012 my original owner 75 CB750F has made it through 3 wives, er EX-wives. Free at last.  ;-)

Offline Short Round

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1974 CB550

Offline andy750

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Re: Japanese Phillips Screws
« Reply #13 on: October 12, 2007, 04:39:46 am »
Sorry Jerry, I was too busy in Japan to update you on my weekend adventures - lets just say I got to ride again on the back of the ZXR1200 which as usual was a lot of fun. ;-)


cheers
Andy

Current bikes
1. CB750K4: Long distance bike, 17 countries and counting...2001 - Trans-USA-Mexico (CB750K4), 2003 - European Tour (CB750K4), 2004 - SOHC Easy Rider Trip (CB750K4), 2008 - Adirondack Tour 2-up (CB750K4) , 2013 - Tail of the Dragon Tour , 2017: 836 kit install and bottom end rebuild. And rebirth: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,173213.msg2029836.html#msg2029836
2. CB750/810cc K2  - road racer with JMR worked head 71 hp
3. VStrom DL1000 2003
4. XLR650L 2006

Where did you go on your bike today? - http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=45183.2350

Offline Helo229

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Re: Japanese Phillips Screws
« Reply #14 on: October 12, 2007, 05:28:45 am »
I'll never understand why you would rely on philips to hold and engine together when you can't torque them down, regardless of that "stock look" or not.

Because the engine cover screws were never meant to be torqued down.  Having said that, though, I definitely prefer the hex-head screws to the stock ones, once they're out. 

They weren't? Even finger-tight there's a torque value on the screw from drag on the thread. Tighten them up by hand and then measure with a torque wrench, and then swap it out with a phillips and measure it again. Just because there's no assigned value for torque in the book doesn't mean you don't want it snug and tight, and personally, I feel more confident riding the bike with fasters attached securely with an extra 3/4 turn than 1/4 turn you can get with philips before the screw driver flies off the head.