Author Topic: Who thinks 70.00 is to much for NEW carb insulators...... (Read 14193 times)

BobbyR · « **Reply #25 on:** November 03, 2007, 12:22:46 PM »

Here is the corporate address and name of the CEO of Honda

http://world.honda.com/profile/overview/

TwoTired · « **Reply #26 on:** November 03, 2007, 02:02:44 PM »

Actually, When Mr. Honda was still alive, he mandated that the Honda company would make and supply parts for every single model of Honda ever sold. This changed in 1991 when he died. Then the bean counters and business suits held sway and profits were given highest priority.

I speculate that side covers aren't offered, primarily because of the painting issues. I don't believe that raw unpainted covers were ever offered. The quality control and paint hue/appearance quality control effort made those operations untenable. Plus, paint formulation, due to EPA type issues, made the original paints unavailable. They would have had to start a new program to get color matching "modern" paints and process, making the costs associated unprofitable. Certainly, in the last 10 years I've heard/read many complaints that Honda pre-painted side covers (when they were still available) at $70 each was a "ridiculous" price to pay for a piece of plastic. How many would buy them at double that price?

Cheers,

MRieck · « **Reply #27 on:** November 04, 2007, 07:47:35 AM »

Quote from: TwoTired on November 03, 2007, 02:02:44 PM

Actually, When Mr. Honda was still alive, he mandated that the Honda company would make and supply parts for every single model of Honda ever sold. This changed in 1991 when he died. Then the bean counters and business suits held sway and profits were given highest priority.

I speculate that side covers aren't offered, primarily because of the painting issues. I don't believe that raw unpainted covers were ever offered. The quality control and paint hue/appearance quality control effort made those operations untenable. Plus, paint formulation, due to EPA type issues, made the original paints unavailable. They would have had to start a new program to get color matching "modern" paints and process, making the costs associated unprofitable. Certainly, in the last 10 years I've heard/read many complaints that Honda pre-painted side covers (when they were still available) at $70 each was a "ridiculous" price to pay for a piece of plastic. How many would buy them at double that price?

Cheers,

Actually the last 750F side covers I bought were primered. That must have been 15 years or so ago.

TwoTired · « **Reply #28 on:** November 04, 2007, 02:32:45 PM »

Quote from: MRieck on November 04, 2007, 07:47:35 AM

Quote from: TwoTired on November 03, 2007, 02:02:44 PM
Actually, When Mr. Honda was still alive, he mandated that the Honda company would make and supply parts for every single model of Honda ever sold. This changed in 1991 when he died. Then the bean counters and business suits held sway and profits were given highest priority.

I speculate that side covers aren't offered, primarily because of the painting issues. I don't believe that raw unpainted covers were ever offered. The quality control and paint hue/appearance quality control effort made those operations untenable. Plus, paint formulation, due to EPA type issues, made the original paints unavailable. They would have had to start a new program to get color matching "modern" paints and process, making the costs associated unprofitable. Certainly, in the last 10 years I've heard/read many complaints that Honda pre-painted side covers (when they were still available) at $70 each was a "ridiculous" price to pay for a piece of plastic. How many would buy them at double that price?

Cheers,
Actually the last 750F side covers I bought were primered. That must have been 15 years or so ago.

When I bought my side covers 550 and 750F through the Honda dealer (at about the same time period) the ONLY options were for ones pre-painted in unit color. What part numbers did you use? My fiche cards have no numbers for primered covers. You get Black or Red for the 77-78 750F. I also have to wonder why they were primered at all. Plastic doesn't rust. Metal bits would need primmer, but plastic? Also, as I understand it. Honda did not not paint them, themselves. They subcontracted the side cover painting from a separate vendor, thereby only having to stock ones ready to install by factory or field technicians.
Honda dealers/shops didn't do painting. And, a primered side cover would have had to have been intercepted and diverted from the Honda vendor's production facility.

While I don't doubt you bought some, even from a Honda dealer, are you certain it was through Honda corporate channels?

I also distinctly remember trying to get the 75 Orange metal flake for the CB550F. No dice. I asked specifically for unpainted, and they said "no way to order such a thing".

Cheers,

paulages · « **Reply #29 on:** November 04, 2007, 04:35:41 PM »

Quote

I also have to wonder why they were primered at all. Plastic doesn't rust. Metal bits would need primmer, but plastic?

some paint requires a barrier (primer/sealer) between itself and plastic...but for that matter, whatever given primer is not compatible with every paint, so it does seem a bit strange either way for them to have primered the sidecovers. i have sanded stock paint from sidecovers and found primer though.

MRieck · « **Reply #30 on:** November 04, 2007, 05:12:05 PM »

Quote from: TwoTired on November 04, 2007, 02:32:45 PM

Quote from: MRieck on November 04, 2007, 07:47:35 AM
Quote from: TwoTired on November 03, 2007, 02:02:44 PM
Actually, When Mr. Honda was still alive, he mandated that the Honda company would make and supply parts for every single model of Honda ever sold. This changed in 1991 when he died. Then the bean counters and business suits held sway and profits were given highest priority.

I speculate that side covers aren't offered, primarily because of the painting issues. I don't believe that raw unpainted covers were ever offered. The quality control and paint hue/appearance quality control effort made those operations untenable. Plus, paint formulation, due to EPA type issues, made the original paints unavailable. They would have had to start a new program to get color matching "modern" paints and process, making the costs associated unprofitable. Certainly, in the last 10 years I've heard/read many complaints that Honda pre-painted side covers (when they were still available) at $70 each was a "ridiculous" price to pay for a piece of plastic. How many would buy them at double that price?

Cheers,
Actually the last 750F side covers I bought were primered. That must have been 15 years or so ago.

When I bought my side covers 550 and 750F through the Honda dealer (at about the same time period) the ONLY options were for ones pre-painted in unit color. What part numbers did you use? My fiche cards have no numbers for primered covers. You get Black or Red for the 77-78 750F. I also have to wonder why they were primered at all. Plastic doesn't rust. Metal bits would need primmer, but plastic? Also, as I understand it. Honda did not not paint them, themselves. They subcontracted the side cover painting from a separate vendor, thereby only having to stock ones ready to install by factory or field technicians.
Honda dealers/shops didn't do painting. And, a primered side cover would have had to have been intercepted and diverted from the Honda vendor's production facility.

While I don't doubt you bought some, even from a Honda dealer, are you certain it was through Honda corporate channels?

I also distinctly remember trying to get the 75 Orange metal flake for the CB550F. No dice. I asked specifically for unpainted, and they said "no way to order such a thing".

Cheers,

They were OEM items ordered through Parkway Cycles in Everett, MA ( a certified Honda dealer). They came in boxes with Honda labels on them. The numbers were pulled from the 75F fiche.....I saw it. They had a dull coat and to be honest....I was puzzled. I have ordered over 30,000.00 worth of parts from Parkway with a majority ot that number being when I owned a bike shop. They are ordered through cooperate channels.The 75F came through with a gray, glossy finish. The painter even commented on their finish. I know other side covers that have been painted but the color was aimost completely different from original. I have also seen....because I received the wrong parts ....2 side panels for a CBR600F3 Smokin Joe replica. Body parts for "limited" bikes were supposed to require proof of ownership etc, etc. before Honda would ship them. Stuff happens and if you think of the volume of parts Honda deals with (cars included) it is easy to see how mistakes happen.

Jerry Rxman Griffin aka MuthaF'er · « **Reply #31 on:** November 04, 2007, 08:19:51 PM »

My replacement side covers are shiny. Simply because I had them clear coated to shine them up and help protect the finish and prevent scuffing from my legs constantly rubbing them. The Phantom Black as I recall was flat but not dull. Honda uses different suppliers perhaps this explains the differences. I've received quite a few replacement pieces that just did not match up to the original. I just pulled my original right side cover from the basement. It has a slight shine to it everywhere except behind the emblem where it is dull. The back side was sprayed too and it is definitely flat & dull. I'd venture to say that much of this slight shine everywhere except behind the emblem is do to wax/polish that never made it behind the emblem.

TwoTired · « **Reply #32 on:** November 04, 2007, 11:42:32 PM »

Now just a durn minute Mike.

The 75 750F0 came with unit color tank and seat cowl. The side covers were black (or very dark gray) and kind of a stealthy satin finish. Is this what you refer to as primer? It was definitely a finished color out of a paint shop, and NOT one that was expected to painted in the field before installation. In many ways a satin finish is harder to produce than glossy, as there as so many grades of "sheen". QC issues with these may be why they were only used for one year. I believe the Cb400F tried this black side cover scheme as well, for the 1976 model.

Quote from: MRieck on November 04, 2007, 07:47:35 AM

Actually the last 750F side covers I bought were primered. That must have been 15 years or so ago.

MRieck · « **Reply #33 on:** November 05, 2007, 05:10:07 AM »

Quote from: TwoTired on November 04, 2007, 11:42:32 PM

Now just a durn minute Mike.
The 75 750F0 came with unit color tank and seat cowl. The side covers were black (or very dark gray) and kind of a stealthy satin finish. Is this what you refer to as primer? It was definitely a finished color out of a paint shop, and NOT one that was expected to painted in the field before installation. In many ways a satin finish is harder to produce than glossy, as there as so many grades of "sheen". QC issues with these may be why they were only used for one year. I believe the Cb400F tried this black side cover scheme as well, for the 1976 model.

Quote from: MRieck on November 04, 2007, 07:47:35 AM
Actually the last 750F side covers I bought were primered. That must have been 15 years or so ago.

Correct. The F0 covers were a dark grey with semigloss finish I 'd say. I remember buffing them to a glossier finish after owning the bike a couple of years. The replacements were very dull and not the same shade of gray at all. If that's what the vendor considered painted to OEM specs...well they were either visually challanged, didn't care about the original spec and/or Honda didn't care. All and or a combo are possible I guess. To be honest I didn't really care as they were being painted anyway. I just wanted all the tabs intact and no spider web cracks.

turin39789 · « **Reply #34 on:** November 05, 2007, 08:38:41 AM »

Can anyone give me a quick hand? I put in an order for a new petcock last night with service honda, and I suppose I might as well try to call them up and get a set of insulators tacked on as mine are original and I'm fair certain I tore them some when I took the carb on and off.

1975 cb550 k1

I'm looking through the fiche on western hill honda's site and I'm only finding the front insulators to the cylinder heads, part # 16211-323-000 , Are they going to be the same front and back - can I just order 8 of these or are the ones to the air cleaner on a different fiche?

Also, how can I get these on without tearing them up? I don't want to throw away $70 manhandling the carbs off and back on.

Bob Wessner · « **Reply #35 on:** November 05, 2007, 08:41:37 AM »

Quote

Are they going to be the same front and back - can I just order 8 of these

No, they are different. The fronts are much heavier material to withstand the pressure differencial.

Jerry Rxman Griffin aka MuthaF'er · « **Reply #36 on:** November 05, 2007, 09:26:54 AM »

Qualifier: I don't do 75 550K1s

With that in mind, I just looked at Service Honda's fiche. What I see are 12241-323-000 Manifold A, In and 12242-323-000 Manifold B, In. These connect the car bs to the head. You need 2 of each. I'm not sure about your number?? Also my 750 has tubes from the carbs to the air cleaner. I do not see the same thing for yours?? Call Service Honda. Check it out. Get the part number and order online or ask them to add it. They will only give you a short time. Once it's processed , it's processed.

turin39789 · « **Reply #37 on:** November 05, 2007, 09:38:34 AM »

Quote from: RxmanGriff on November 05, 2007, 09:26:54 AM

Qualifier: I don't do 75 550K1s

With that in mind, I just looked at Service Honda's fiche. What I see are 12241-323-000 Manifold A, In and 12242-323-000 Manifold B, In. These connect the car bs to the head. You need 2 of each. I'm not sure about your number?? Also my 750 has tubes from the carbs to the air cleaner. I do not see the same thing for yours?? Call Service Honda. Check it out. Get the part number and order online or ask them to add it. They will only give you a short time. Once it's processed , it's processed.

I'll run out and check the bike to see if the tubes are bad, but I was looking for the insulator(rubber boot that goes on the carb right? That's the bit that apparently gets micro cracks and screws up the bike?), I'm finding the one from the manifold tube to the front of the carbs, but not the insulators that connect to the aifbox. Checked the carb and the fuel tank - airbox diagrams.

Jerry Rxman Griffin aka MuthaF'er · « **Reply #38 on:** November 05, 2007, 11:00:57 AM »

These insulators/manifolds as they are called that connect the head to the carbs become brittle and hard. I assume they can develop micro cracks as well as developing air leaks where they connect to the head or carbs. If they develop air leaks it would obviously throw off the air to fuel mixture ratio inconsistently across the cylinders causing the bike to run poorly. The other annoying problem this causes is removing/reinstalling the carbs. A real pain in the ass to use a pry bar or 2 X 4 to pry these off then hammer them back on then cause more problems. The connections from the carbs to the airbox can create issues also but in my opinion not as bad. I didn't see the same type connections for your bike when I looked at the online fiche as on my 750? One of the 550 guys should help with this.

TwoTired · « **Reply #39 on:** November 05, 2007, 03:53:47 PM »

The Cb550 carbs (not the PD types) are suspended by 8 rubber couplers. Four go towards the head and attach to the intake manifold. Four go toward the rear where the air cleaner is.

The rubber couplers toward the intake manifold are P/N 16211-323-000. When these crack/leak the mixture provided by the carbs is greatly effected.

The numbers Jerry gave you are for the metal intake manifolds themselves. If you have removed them, they have 30.8mm O rings that ought to be replaced (91303-001-020).

The rear rubber bits are attached to the "Air cleaner chamber Complete" (17310-323-000B or 17310-323-010B). The actual rubber bits were not available separately from Honda.

From reading this forum, I heard that David Silver Spares may sell the rear rubber bits separately. There was a thread by Jonesy, I think. Call DSS, PM Jonesy, or search the forum.

Small leaks in the inlet side do not drastically effect the carb mix, unless they are really large cracks. However, they do bypass the filter and let dirt into the cylinders. These can be patched with black RTV, if you can't find suitable replacements.

These rear rubbers are what give the compliance needed to extract and install the carb bank. Remove the band clamps to help them survive and loosen the air filter box mounts to allow the chamber to move back to the frame tubes. Every, 1/4 inch of space (and a spray of silicon lube) helps the couplers survive without tearing during extraction and installation.

Cheers,

Hope · « **Reply #40 on:** November 10, 2007, 02:31:34 AM »

Here's an ebay auction for those folks with 550s. Just about everyone knows that you have to buy the whole airbox and boots if you need the boots. My local Honda wants $130 for the airbox. This German auction is asking about $60. I am waiting to hear back about how much shipping will be. He has 10 to sell: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=320160338017

Deltarider · « **Reply #41 on:** November 10, 2007, 03:31:07 AM »

That's for the 4 boots only, as is stated correctly (in german). The plenum in the picture is not included.

Hope · « **Reply #42 on:** November 10, 2007, 07:14:05 AM »

Quote from: Deltarider on November 10, 2007, 03:31:07 AM

That's for the 4 boots only, as is stated correctly (in german). The plenum in the picture is not included.

Yeah, I was saying that this is a way to buy the boots without having to buy the airbox. When you go to Honda, they have to order the airbox and the boots. You cannot get just the boots, then you pay twice as much as what these are offered for.

I just got this seller's response. You can get the boots shipped to you for 50,00 Euros = 73,30500 U.S. dollars.

Quote

Hallo,

Bekommst diese für 35,00 + 15,00 EUR Versand, ausserhalb ebay !!!

Überweise einfach den Betrag von 50,00 EUR auf folgendes Konto:

NAME: Norbert Kahl -
BANK: Sparkasse Flensburg -
IBAN: DE84215500500114027609 -
BIC: HSHNDEH1FLS -
USE FOR: (EBAY-NUMBER...) -

Oder per Brief (Postletter) als Einschreiben an:

Norbert Kahl
Birkenweg 2
D-24980 Schafflund
Germany

When the Money goes in,
I will send you your Pack hurry...! -
Thank you very much! -

Sobald der Betrag eingegangen ist,
geht die Ware auf die Reise...

Teile mir dann doch bitte auch deine Lieferadresse mit...!
Please tell me also your Delivery-Adress!

I am waiting to hear from David Silver Spares for their total including shipping.

754 · « **Reply #43 on:** November 10, 2007, 07:38:48 AM »

He says new in package, same as Honda part # but not Honda part. So someone must be making them aftermarket.

mkramer1121 · « **Reply #44 on:** November 10, 2007, 07:51:46 AM »

Total for 550 airbox boots plus shipping from DSS was less then $45 USD.

Hope · « **Reply #45 on:** November 10, 2007, 08:11:39 AM »

Quote from: mkramer1121 on November 10, 2007, 07:51:46 AM

Total for 550 airbox boots plus shipping from DSS was less then $45 USD.

That's good to know. I just placed my order with DSS without knowing how much my shipping would be.

It is a beautiful day here in southeast Louisiana, and I was getting aggravated with fooling around on this computer when I could be riding!!! So, I just hurried up and placed my order without knowing.

Glad you told me a ballpark figure of what I can expect my total to be. That will give me piece of mind - I'll know that while I'm out riding around, my credit card won't be charged for some crazy amount.

dave400 · « **Reply #46 on:** November 10, 2007, 08:46:11 AM »

DSS has a shipping price guide if you have a rough idea of the weight of the part you can work out the cost. I’ve never found his postage cost to be excessive, but I do live in the UK so I cant comment on overseas postage costs.

http://www.davidsilverspares.co.uk/ship.html

joeb · « **Reply #47 on:** November 10, 2007, 02:54:03 PM »

When I did my rebuild that was one of the frist things I purchased.

MRieck · « **Reply #48 on:** November 10, 2007, 03:00:31 PM »

Quote from: joeb on November 10, 2007, 02:54:03 PM

When I did my rebuild that was one of the frist things I purchased.

You didn't cheap out on anything Joe if I remember correctly.

joeb · « **Reply #49 on:** November 10, 2007, 03:36:29 PM »

Just shimmed the stock carbs and and put the mercury sticks on it today was going to test drive but started to rain. Was out last week with Sean I do not want to even metion the speeds we were going. But I need to find a set of those cr carbs, man Seans bike is quick. What am I thinking I need to find the funds first.

News:

Author Topic: Who thinks 70.00 is to much for NEW carb insulators...... (Read 14193 times)