Author Topic: What all can be done with the little CB550? (Turbo perhaps?)  (Read 26328 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline DarkRider

  • Nomad.or Drifter...Def not a
  • Old Timer
  • ******
  • Posts: 2,611
  • Lone Wolf.....Among the herd of sport bikers...
What all can be done with the little CB550? (Turbo perhaps?)
« on: November 03, 2007, 06:57:09 am »
Alright as has been mentioned before i am getting a little CB550 to play around with and i want to know what i can do to get some extra HP out of the engine. Figure i might as well do these mods while the top end is completely disassembled at the moment.(cyls and head are off for new gaskets) Now is there an overbore kit avalable for the stock 550 without building a 550/650 hybrid? Whats the most the stock cyls can be overbored? Also what else would be reccomended to be done to this bike? I already know im going to be using a MAC 4 into 1 exhaust to gain a bit more over the stock 4 into 4s. any other suggestions for more performance? I have also considered milling the head a bit to bump up the compression..is it worth it?

Now reguarding the chassis itself..what can be done to it to upgrade the handling?

Sorry about all the questions but given i never got very far with my old CB750 project im making up for lost time  :D
« Last Edit: January 01, 2008, 01:18:03 pm by OutlawZ24 »
'84 Chevy C10
'73 MGB Roadster
'69 Ford F250

Currently a rider without a bike

Quote from: heffay
so, you say just tie myself on with this... and steer w/ this?   ;D ;D  ok.  where's my goggles?   8)

Offline bryanj

  • Really Old Timer ...
  • *******
  • Posts: 13,447
  • CB500 Number 1000036
Re: What all can be done with the little CB550?
« Reply #1 on: November 03, 2007, 08:25:28 am »
605 kit, or somewhere on this forum is how to mod 750 pistons to fit, ask Mike reick about a head job and then cam it
Semi Geriatric ex-Honda mechanic and MOT tester (UK version of annual inspection). Garage full of "projects" mostly 500/4 from pre 73 (no road tax in UK).

Remember "Its always in the last place you look" COURSE IT IS YOU STOP LOOKIN THEN!

Offline MRieck

  • Really Old Timer ...
  • *******
  • Posts: 10,450
  • Big ideas....
Re: What all can be done with the little CB550?
« Reply #2 on: November 03, 2007, 08:32:10 am »
605 kit, or somewhere on this forum is how to mod 750 pistons to fit, ask Mike reick about a head job and then cam it
The 500/550 port design is much better than the 750.....especially the floor. You knock down the huge guide boss and you can easily get 30% more flow.
Owner of the "Million Dollar CB"

Offline mlinder

  • "Kitten Puncher"
  • Really Old Timer ...
  • *******
  • Posts: 5,013
  • Stop Global Tilting now!
    • Moto Northwest
Re: What all can be done with the little CB550?
« Reply #3 on: November 03, 2007, 08:34:51 am »
The stock 550 makes like 50+hp. It weighs about 420 lbs or so.
They are actually quick little bikes.
My opinion: Get it running right, run it between 6 and 10k rpm in the twisties, then see if you really want more power.
No.


Offline FunJimmy

  • Who you calling
  • Old Timer
  • ******
  • Posts: 3,802
  • Vancouver
Re: What all can be done with the little CB550?
« Reply #4 on: November 03, 2007, 09:14:47 am »
All the articles I’ve read (and I have a good book with all the past road tests) give the CB550 approx. 38HP off the showroom floor.

Any increase in power would be a good thing. I found a 605cc big bore kit on feebay. They come up from time to time so keep an eye open.
 
There is also an old article titled “Gentleman’s Express” that shows the modification of a CB750 piston for the 550’s.  http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=20601.0

This is another excellent forum: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=17374.0

Jonesy did an amazing job of putting this porting project up for all us CB550 owners.

Good luck and keep your finding posted.
I’m doing mine this winter too.

Jimmy
« Last Edit: March 16, 2011, 04:59:17 am by Glenn Stauffer »
You never see a motorcycle parked outside of a psychiatrist's office!

CB550 Cafe Interceptor a Gentlemans Roadster
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=27159.0

Offline Gordon

  • Global Moderator
  • Really Old Timer ...
  • *****
  • Posts: 12,114
  • 750K1, 550K2
Re: What all can be done with the little CB550?
« Reply #5 on: November 03, 2007, 10:02:48 am »
Have a look at the "Thoughts of Hondaman" in the FAQ.  He has quite a few tips for the 550.

http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=7401.0
« Last Edit: March 16, 2011, 04:59:36 am by Glenn Stauffer »

Offline paulages

  • Old Timer
  • ******
  • Posts: 3,876
  • 1976 cb735
    • DOOMTOWN RIDERS P.R.M.C.
Re: What all can be done with the little CB550?
« Reply #6 on: November 03, 2007, 10:31:08 am »
these guys have pretty much laid it out for you. i'd agree with the "thoughts of hondaman" reference for some general upgrade suggestions. you could run a 650 head and pistons and gain quite a bit (there's only a 1mm overbore, but the port and combustion chamber design blows the 550 away), especially if you sent the head to mike reick and had a nice cam and HD valve springs. once you start using 650 parts it's a bit of a pandora's box, but this option would require the least work. or, you could drop a 650 engine straight in and call it a day.
paul
SOHC4 member #1050

1974 CB550 (735cc)
1976 CB550 (590cc) road racer
1973 CB750K3
1972 NORTON Commando Combat
1996 KLX650 R

Offline bwaller

  • Really Old Timer ...
  • *******
  • Posts: 7,479
Re: What all can be done with the little CB550?
« Reply #7 on: November 03, 2007, 11:19:18 am »
It all depends on how much you want to spend, as always! I can tell you that removing some weight and massaging some extra power will give you that "little 550", as you put it, you'll really enjoy playing around with! Here is a recipe that I found works great.

Make sure your engine bottom end is in great shape. How many miles are on the chains? (primary and cam) Better check the mains and rod bearings before you go too far.
Boring to use 61mm pistons is safe enough with stock sleeves and gives 592cc(either that 605 kit or standard 750 pistons-modified)
A good valve job and at least some porting (heavily modified ports will necessitate different carbs)
Aftermarket cam, even a mild street cam helps a great deal, aftermarket valve springs.
Tighten squish and increase CR some.
Different coils and ignition


Frame and suspension
All the usual improvements, check wheels & bearings, steering head attention, tight swingarm bushings, GOOD shocks, if stock forks interconnect and add some air, try progressive springs. Install good tires. Change the riding postion some if you lean to the sporting side of things.  At least the things everybody can do easily.

If you can, remove weight too. Nearly twenty pounds alone with a change of exhaust, but start looking for a Kerker, It's been stated by better minds than me that the Mac won't give a power increase over stock pipes. Lots of other little tricks will remove heft.

It won't be race track competetive but you'll end up with a completely different middleweight that'll run away from your stock 750. (This might raise some hairs!)


  

Offline DarkRider

  • Nomad.or Drifter...Def not a
  • Old Timer
  • ******
  • Posts: 2,611
  • Lone Wolf.....Among the herd of sport bikers...
Re: What all can be done with the little CB550?
« Reply #8 on: November 03, 2007, 11:35:40 am »
For the 650 head and pistons...does the 650 head bolt up to the 550s cyls? And its just an over bore job to use the 650 pistons in the 550 sleeves? Just making sure i undestand things correctly. My goal is to get it as close to 600 CC as possable, Was already thinking about sending whatever head i use to mike reick. Of course with the use of the 650 head i would have to go to 650 carbs correct? Also where abouts can i remove extra weight from the bike without it compromising reliablity besides the exhaust. I know that the bike will never be as fast as a modern rocket i just want it to be quick and reliable. Reason i was refering to it as a little 550 is because im used to riding a VF750. One mod i was considering suspension wise was adding slightly longer shocks in the rear and slip the forks up a bit in the triple trees so it has a forward rake.

I also read the tips from hondaman on the main site which outlined adding 4 teeth to the rear sprocket as well as adding air valves to the front forks to make them both air assist forks.

Keeping in mind that im probably going to go 650 pistons and head what would be a good cam for this set up?
'84 Chevy C10
'73 MGB Roadster
'69 Ford F250

Currently a rider without a bike

Quote from: heffay
so, you say just tie myself on with this... and steer w/ this?   ;D ;D  ok.  where's my goggles?   8)

Offline paulages

  • Old Timer
  • ******
  • Posts: 3,876
  • 1976 cb735
    • DOOMTOWN RIDERS P.R.M.C.
Re: What all can be done with the little CB550?
« Reply #9 on: November 03, 2007, 12:34:24 pm »
For the 650 head and pistons...does the 650 head bolt up to the 550s cyls? And its just an over bore job to use the 650 pistons in the 550 sleeves? Just making sure i undestand things correctly. My goal is to get it as close to 600 CC as possable, Was already thinking about sending whatever head i use to mike reick. Of course with the use of the 650 head i would have to go to 650 carbs correct? Also where abouts can i remove extra weight from the bike without it compromising reliablity besides the exhaust. I know that the bike will never be as fast as a modern rocket i just want it to be quick and reliable. Reason i was refering to it as a little 550 is because im used to riding a VF750. One mod i was considering suspension wise was adding slightly longer shocks in the rear and slip the forks up a bit in the triple trees so it has a forward rake.

I also read the tips from hondaman on the main site which outlined adding 4 teeth to the rear sprocket as well as adding air valves to the front forks to make them both air assist forks.

Keeping in mind that im probably going to go 650 pistons and head what would be a good cam for this set up?


yes, the 650 pistons and head will bolt straight onto the 550 cylinders. the 650 and 550 pistons have the same pin height, but the 650 piston is way too domed to fit into the 550 head. you'll have to use the 550 cam sprocket, which will also bolt right onto the 550 cam. while you're at it, you could just use the stock 650 cam for a pretty big increase in lift, or try running one of megacycle's mild street cams for the 550. the blanks are the same for the 550 and 650, so don't listen to them if they tell you they can't cut one from a 650 core. mike reick suggested the 126-31 for my project. yes, you'd want 650 carbs.
paul
SOHC4 member #1050

1974 CB550 (735cc)
1976 CB550 (590cc) road racer
1973 CB750K3
1972 NORTON Commando Combat
1996 KLX650 R

Offline bwaller

  • Really Old Timer ...
  • *******
  • Posts: 7,479
Re: What all can be done with the little CB550?
« Reply #10 on: November 03, 2007, 02:13:47 pm »
Some heavy parts to consider besides the exhaust

 
1)rear fender, tail light, grab bar and seat- I fitted an alternative and saved 6lbs.
2)front fender- went to plastic WITH a fork brace-saved 3lbs
3)centerstand complete- 5.5lbs
4)aluminum rims-3lbs
5)switching original exhaust flanges for aluminum ones- 1.5lbs
6)520 chain conversion with aluminum rear sprocket- 3lbs

Replacing footpegs & brackets, thinning & drilling brake disc, aluminum wheel spacers, electric start or kickstart etc,etc.


It is possible to take big chunks of weight easily, a little more involved to remove grams!

If you want to maintain the complete stock bike look, good deal, an increase in power will still bring out the fun factor.
 


Offline DarkRider

  • Nomad.or Drifter...Def not a
  • Old Timer
  • ******
  • Posts: 2,611
  • Lone Wolf.....Among the herd of sport bikers...
Re: What all can be done with the little CB550?
« Reply #11 on: November 03, 2007, 04:16:19 pm »
Not concerned about stock appearance...the general over all design i have in mind is more cafe style in mind...Im already looking at converting to 17 inch wheels front and rear..which from what was said will cut some weight..looking at a light weight aluminum handle bar which is 600 grams. have no issues taking the center stand off...was looking at a fiberglass front fender..as well as doing a proteal style rear and eliminate the rear fender and everything back there..found a combo tail light/signal light/licence plate mount that would work awesome for this. Already know im gonna have to use custom pipes due to the 650 head. So im getting some tunable drag style pipes made..they will end at the front foot pegs roughly in length. basicly...if it all comes together the way im hoping it will it will look like it came out of a racing shop. The advantage of using the 17  inch wheels it will allow me to run moderin sport bike radials while keeping the classic spoke look.

Keep the ideas coming guys im listening. Also what year of 650 would i be looking for parts?

Something else i forgot to mention that this bike may not be a K like i thought..sounding like its an actually an F
« Last Edit: November 03, 2007, 04:17:59 pm by OutlawZ24 »
'84 Chevy C10
'73 MGB Roadster
'69 Ford F250

Currently a rider without a bike

Quote from: heffay
so, you say just tie myself on with this... and steer w/ this?   ;D ;D  ok.  where's my goggles?   8)

Offline MRieck

  • Really Old Timer ...
  • *******
  • Posts: 10,450
  • Big ideas....
Re: What all can be done with the little CB550?
« Reply #12 on: November 03, 2007, 04:57:43 pm »
For the 650 head and pistons...does the 650 head bolt up to the 550s cyls? And its just an over bore job to use the 650 pistons in the 550 sleeves? Just making sure i undestand things correctly. My goal is to get it as close to 600 CC as possable, Was already thinking about sending whatever head i use to mike reick. Of course with the use of the 650 head i would have to go to 650 carbs correct? Also where abouts can i remove extra weight from the bike without it compromising reliablity besides the exhaust. I know that the bike will never be as fast as a modern rocket i just want it to be quick and reliable. Reason i was refering to it as a little 550 is because im used to riding a VF750. One mod i was considering suspension wise was adding slightly longer shocks in the rear and slip the forks up a bit in the triple trees so it has a forward rake.

I also read the tips from hondaman on the main site which outlined adding 4 teeth to the rear sprocket as well as adding air valves to the front forks to make them both air assist forks.

Keeping in mind that im probably going to go 650 pistons and head what would be a good cam for this set up?


yes, the 650 pistons and head will bolt straight onto the 550 cylinders. the 650 and 550 pistons have the same pin height, but the 650 piston is way too domed to fit into the 550 head. you'll have to use the 550 cam sprocket, which will also bolt right onto the 550 cam. while you're at it, you could just use the stock 650 cam for a pretty big increase in lift, or try running one of megacycle's mild street cams for the 550. the blanks are the same for the 550 and 650, so don't listen to them if they tell you they can't cut one from a 650 core. mike reick suggested the 126-31 for my project. yes, you'd want 650 carbs.
Good info Paul. As a side note...the Megacycle 126-31 is the same cam as the 120-20 or 120-21. The 650 cam is a very good idea....it definitely has more lift/duration than the 550. It's a cheap performance improvement. As always....check piston to valve clearance though I seriously doubt it would be a problem.
Owner of the "Million Dollar CB"

Offline DarkRider

  • Nomad.or Drifter...Def not a
  • Old Timer
  • ******
  • Posts: 2,611
  • Lone Wolf.....Among the herd of sport bikers...
Re: What all can be done with the little CB550?
« Reply #13 on: November 03, 2007, 05:48:08 pm »
Roughly what would the new dicplacement be with the 650 pistons in the 550 cyls? As i had asked in a previous post what years of 650 do i look for for a donor?
'84 Chevy C10
'73 MGB Roadster
'69 Ford F250

Currently a rider without a bike

Quote from: heffay
so, you say just tie myself on with this... and steer w/ this?   ;D ;D  ok.  where's my goggles?   8)

Offline Soos

  • Just a butcher with a carbide hatchet, definitely not a
  • Master
  • *****
  • Posts: 2,324
Re: What all can be done with the little CB550?
« Reply #14 on: November 03, 2007, 06:41:05 pm »
Roughly what would the new dicplacement be with the 650 pistons in the 550 cyls? As i had asked in a previous post what years of 650 do i look for for a donor?
As for a donor, I would recommend the '79 cb650 motor, as you will not be limited to using the stock CV carbs in the ;80 and later cb650's.
You can then re-use your cb550 carbs, go with cb650 carbs, or even go with cb750 carbs.

l8r

what is the stroke of a 550... i forget.
But the cb650 pistons are 59.8mm.
-=≡ Soos ≡=-
Just think to yourself what would Alowishus Devander Abercrombie do?
"Brix will be shat by your neighbors." - schwebel
(61mm)652cc 1979 cb650

Offline neil young

  • striving to be an
  • Expert
  • ****
  • Posts: 931
  • A penny saved..is obviously a government oversight
Re: What all can be done with the little CB550?
« Reply #15 on: November 03, 2007, 06:46:06 pm »
i have been riding my 77 550 for three years now.it is a pretty quick bike to begin with and  it handles highway speeds pretty well.i have no problem cruising at 80 mph (6500 rpm)
as stated earlier get it tuned properly,add a dyna s if you like and ride it.porting and a 605 kit would be nice but if you want more i say buy a 750.
1972 CB500 k1
1974 CB550
1977 cb 550
82 suzuki GS 750tz.......16  valves  baby
2008 Triumph Scrambler

Offline paulages

  • Old Timer
  • ******
  • Posts: 3,876
  • 1976 cb735
    • DOOMTOWN RIDERS P.R.M.C.
Re: What all can be done with the little CB550?
« Reply #16 on: November 03, 2007, 07:03:44 pm »
i have been riding my 77 550 for three years now.it is a pretty quick bike to begin with and  it handles highway speeds pretty well.i have no problem cruising at 80 mph (6500 rpm)
as stated earlier get it tuned properly,add a dyna s if you like and ride it.porting and a 605 kit would be nice but if you want more i say buy a 750.

no matter how you slice it, the 550 feels totally different than a 750. nothing wrong with wanting more performance out of what you have.
paul
SOHC4 member #1050

1974 CB550 (735cc)
1976 CB550 (590cc) road racer
1973 CB750K3
1972 NORTON Commando Combat
1996 KLX650 R

Offline DarkRider

  • Nomad.or Drifter...Def not a
  • Old Timer
  • ******
  • Posts: 2,611
  • Lone Wolf.....Among the herd of sport bikers...
Re: What all can be done with the little CB550?
« Reply #17 on: November 03, 2007, 07:27:45 pm »
from what im reading of the main site the bore and stroke of the 550 is 58.5 x 50.6mm
'84 Chevy C10
'73 MGB Roadster
'69 Ford F250

Currently a rider without a bike

Quote from: heffay
so, you say just tie myself on with this... and steer w/ this?   ;D ;D  ok.  where's my goggles?   8)

Offline DarkRider

  • Nomad.or Drifter...Def not a
  • Old Timer
  • ******
  • Posts: 2,611
  • Lone Wolf.....Among the herd of sport bikers...
Re: What all can be done with the little CB550?
« Reply #18 on: November 03, 2007, 07:29:16 pm »
also would the compression be bumped up much by the use of the 650 pistons and head? or can i get away with milling the 650 head a bit to bump up the compression?
'84 Chevy C10
'73 MGB Roadster
'69 Ford F250

Currently a rider without a bike

Quote from: heffay
so, you say just tie myself on with this... and steer w/ this?   ;D ;D  ok.  where's my goggles?   8)

Offline dustyc

  • I don't know why anyone would call me an
  • Expert
  • ****
  • Posts: 1,141
  • 1977 CB750K
Re: What all can be done with the little CB550?
« Reply #19 on: November 03, 2007, 07:41:45 pm »
Not sure if it's accurate, but the number I got for the stroke of a 550 is 50.6, so that's a displacement of 568.  (Displacement = .785 x bore x bore x stroke x cylinders)

Is my math right guys?

Edited to add:  That's using the 59.8mm figure Soos provided for 650 pistons.
« Last Edit: November 03, 2007, 09:01:38 pm by dustyc »
1977 CB750

Offline neil young

  • striving to be an
  • Expert
  • ****
  • Posts: 931
  • A penny saved..is obviously a government oversight
Re: What all can be done with the little CB550?
« Reply #20 on: November 03, 2007, 09:33:53 pm »
i have been riding my 77 550 for three years now.it is a pretty quick bike to begin with and  it handles highway speeds pretty well.i have no problem cruising at 80 mph (6500 rpm)
as stated earlier get it tuned properly,add a dyna s if you like and ride it.porting and a 605 kit would be nice but if you want more i say buy a 750.

no matter how you slice it, the 550 feels totally different than a 750. nothing wrong with wanting more performance out of what you have.
[/quote what i was trying to say was tune her up take it for a few spins and i think you will be pleasantly surprised.the 550 is a great bike. ;)
1972 CB500 k1
1974 CB550
1977 cb 550
82 suzuki GS 750tz.......16  valves  baby
2008 Triumph Scrambler

Offline paulages

  • Old Timer
  • ******
  • Posts: 3,876
  • 1976 cb735
    • DOOMTOWN RIDERS P.R.M.C.
Re: What all can be done with the little CB550?
« Reply #21 on: November 03, 2007, 11:09:40 pm »
Not sure if it's accurate, but the number I got for the stroke of a 550 is 50.6, so that's a displacement of 568.  (Displacement = .785 x bore x bore x stroke x cylinders)

Is my math right guys?

Edited to add:  That's using the 59.8mm figure Soos provided for 650 pistons.

yes, your math is right.

the compression would be the same as the stock 650, which is 9/1. you'd have to deck the cylinders to gain compression.

paul
SOHC4 member #1050

1974 CB550 (735cc)
1976 CB550 (590cc) road racer
1973 CB750K3
1972 NORTON Commando Combat
1996 KLX650 R

Offline Jay B

  • Expert
  • ****
  • Posts: 763
Re: What all can be done with the little CB550?
« Reply #22 on: November 04, 2007, 05:02:22 am »
So if I've got things right, you could just bolt  a 650 cam into a 550 motor?
Jay
'77 CB550K
'74 CB350F cafe
2001 Road King
'73 CB175

Offline Short Round

  • Hot Shot
  • ***
  • Posts: 306
Re: What all can be done with the little CB550?
« Reply #23 on: November 04, 2007, 06:04:10 am »
For those of you who sugested it, what all would I have to do to my 550 to put a 650 cam in it and what are the advantages.  Still have the topend apart and thought about replacing the cam with a mild street cam, but I have a spare 650 cam from an 81 laying around.  Any thoughts............Chris
1974 CB550

Offline FunJimmy

  • Who you calling
  • Old Timer
  • ******
  • Posts: 3,802
  • Vancouver
Re: What all can be done with the little CB550?
« Reply #24 on: November 04, 2007, 07:52:47 am »
Paul & Mike

Thanks for the 650 cam suggestion. That sounds real good to me too.
Two questions.

1. What years of 650 cams will fit?

2. Do you know the lift and duration of the 650 cams or where I could find them?

Jimmy
You never see a motorcycle parked outside of a psychiatrist's office!

CB550 Cafe Interceptor a Gentlemans Roadster
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=27159.0