Author Topic: Behind The Curve??  (Read 16726 times)

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Offline 754

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Re: Behind The Curve??
« Reply #50 on: January 23, 2008, 09:33:32 PM »
Hre is some prices from PETERSENS 1970 buyers Guide. they list them as appreox price.. but I bet they are within 100.00.

If you wish me to list one, please ask , I will list a few.

BMW R/75....1948.00

BSA Rocket 3....1765.00

       Lightening..1430.00

Sportster XLH ...1840.00

Sportster XLCH...1767.00

Electra Glide...1978.00

Honda CB 750...1490.00

Kawi Mach III...995.00

Norton..3 models of 750..1449---1495.00

Moto Guzzi 757cc...1539.00

Suzuki Titan..899.00

Triumph Trident..1765.00

            Bonneville...1440.00

Yamaha 650...1245.00

« Last Edit: January 23, 2008, 11:29:45 PM by 754 »
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My next bike will be a ..ANFOB.....

It's All part of the ADVENTURE...

73 836cc.. Green, had it for 3 decades!!
Lost quite a few CB 750's along the way

Offline DammitDan

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Re: Behind The Curve??
« Reply #51 on: January 23, 2008, 10:44:25 PM »
So even back when they were still notorious for being leaky, fault-ridden pieces of machinery, they STILL cost more than all the Jap and Brit bikes?  And these prices are MSRP, AFTER import taxes and tariffs?  Considering Harley didn't have to pay any import dues, I'd say they were ripping off the public pretty bad back then, too.

I don't know if this is necessarily helping your argument, 754...
« Last Edit: January 23, 2008, 10:46:07 PM by DammitDan »
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eldar

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Re: Behind The Curve??
« Reply #52 on: January 24, 2008, 06:07:10 AM »
Not much helps his argument since he sees fit to dump on a person even when others have backed me.

Quote
Our bikes were not much more than 1000 new.
Quote
Honda CB 750...1490.00
So i was off a few hundred dollars. My point still stands that after 30+ years, our bikes can still be sold for close to what they cost when new.

I guess if I am spreading it, he is dumping it as a number of people who know a lot more about these bikes have contradicted him. Oh well.

Offline rugger81

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Re: Behind The Curve??
« Reply #53 on: January 24, 2008, 06:19:17 AM »
Adjusted for inflation, that $1490 probably cost more like $8000.
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Offline GoatBaSS

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Re: Behind The Curve??
« Reply #54 on: January 24, 2008, 06:52:44 AM »
Oh, can I go back in time, and not adjust for inflation? Please...

Now if I can just get the flux capacitor on this fool thing to work. I'm going back in time to get some bikes!!!
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1972 CB750K/900CC Red Headed Dunstall, 1975CB750FSS Gone BNF: 1974CB500T, 1976CB750K X 2

Offline Uncle Ernie

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Re: Behind The Curve??
« Reply #55 on: January 24, 2008, 07:05:32 AM »
"notorious for being leaky, fault-ridden pieces of ..."

Sorry- I read that kind of fast.  Was that the Harley's or Brit bikes you were talking about?

Not too long ago, an Electra Glide or Cadillac were the top.  Luxo.

Interesting how- just as "we" give foreign groups money and arms and it ends up biting us in the ass later, we basically gave japan everything it needed to create the maufacturing giant it is today-   and only wave as it races by.
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Offline S-Dog

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Re: Behind The Curve??
« Reply #56 on: January 24, 2008, 07:30:33 AM »
I just rented an '07 Electra Glide with the 96CI engine.... And honestly, it was ok at best. It cruised well and did its job.  It did nothing for me though.  I would gladly save 5-7k and get me a VTX or better yet a nice '02 Valkyrie  ;D ;D ;D
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Offline UnCrash

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Re: Behind The Curve??
« Reply #57 on: January 24, 2008, 07:36:36 AM »
Quote
Interesting how- just as "we" give foreign groups money and arms and it ends up biting us in the ass later, we basically gave japan everything it needed to create the maufacturing giant it is today-   and only wave as it races by.

While I agree that the US helped Japan early on, they quickly grew wings and flew on their own.

A significant reason that the Japanese flourish in manufacturing complex and highly technical goods is cultural and philosophical.   The Poka-yoke (mistake proofing) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poka-yoke methodology created by Shigeo Shingeo, who was one of the world's leading experts in manufacturing, is a good example of how significant philosophical differences affect a product's quality.

Anyone on the line at a Honda or Toyota plant can shut down the entire line to fix a problem using the Poka-yoke methodology.  This is one reason why they're kicking a$$ in quality and reliability.  The Poka-yoke system has been taught at US manufacturing sites for more than 20 years now but the US auto makers have yet to adopt it fully.
You can't make too much popcorn, but you can definately eat too much popcorn.

Offline 754

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Re: Behind The Curve??
« Reply #58 on: January 24, 2008, 07:42:11 AM »
I put the prices out there to illustrate, that pretty well all have appreciated several times or more in value.

Honda Fours have  appreciated a lot more that a lot of the other Japanese bikes, the mid size models often have not risen as much.

I never said anyone should get one make over the other, we all have differing needs.

The fact remains though that no matter how good anyone else builds heavyweights (1000cc;s and bigger).. no other single manufacturer has exceeded HD's sales in that area.
Maker of the WELDLESS 750 Frame Kit
dodogas99@gmail.com
Kelowna B.C.       Canada

My next bike will be a ..ANFOB.....

It's All part of the ADVENTURE...

73 836cc.. Green, had it for 3 decades!!
Lost quite a few CB 750's along the way

Offline 754

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Re: Behind The Curve??
« Reply #59 on: January 24, 2008, 07:48:55 AM »
Btw, If I posted that Honda's did not appreciate, please show the quote.

I should however mention that on the 750 sohc.. value wise the 77 & 78 models seem the be not holding up nearly as good as the others.
Maker of the WELDLESS 750 Frame Kit
dodogas99@gmail.com
Kelowna B.C.       Canada

My next bike will be a ..ANFOB.....

It's All part of the ADVENTURE...

73 836cc.. Green, had it for 3 decades!!
Lost quite a few CB 750's along the way

eldar

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Re: Behind The Curve??
« Reply #60 on: January 24, 2008, 08:42:18 AM »
They arent? First I have seen of that. the only high dollar 750 is the 69. The rest fall about even. The 77/78 may be a little less but then people dismiss them cause of their looks. They look more like the 80s bikes and not like the cb750 most people know. Maybe that why I like the 77/78. To me and most other 77/78 owners, the earlier 750 were ugly as sin.

Quote
The Poka-yoke system has been taught at US manufacturing sites for more than 20 years now but the US auto makers have yet to adopt it fully
And it never will as long as gm and ford keep letting the uaw walk all over them.
I predict in 10 years ford and gm will no longer exist, or at least no longer be owned by american interests. They will go under and the name will be saved by some foreign company.
Unless of course they turn things around but I doubt that since the top dogs of the companies will rake in millions in a sell out.

Offline Bob Wessner

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Re: Behind The Curve??
« Reply #61 on: January 24, 2008, 08:48:06 AM »
Quote
the earlier 750 were ugly as sin.


Say what?! >:( ;D
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Offline kuyarico

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Re: Behind The Curve??
« Reply #62 on: January 24, 2008, 08:50:26 AM »
I'm going to go microwave some more popcorn.  ;D

eldar

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Re: Behind The Curve??
« Reply #63 on: January 24, 2008, 08:57:18 AM »
ok what I meant to say is that the early 750 owners resemble their bikes! ;D
The 77/78 look like the chicks at the playboy mansion! In their prime that is.

Offline edbikerii

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Re: Behind The Curve??
« Reply #64 on: January 24, 2008, 09:07:59 AM »
And it never will as long as gm and ford keep letting the uaw walk all over them.
I predict in 10 years ford and gm will no longer exist, or at least no longer be owned by american interests. They will go under and the name will be saved by some foreign company.
Unless of course they turn things around but I doubt that since the top dogs of the companies will rake in millions in a sell out.

Yeah, and look at the screwing the UAW handed Chrysler.  Even Chrysler's new German owners couldn't fix those union problems.  The UAW is killing our auto industry.  Because of those lousy UAW contracts, Chrysler's financials are so bad that it is actually a liability to own it now.
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1986 GL1200I - SOLD
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Jetting: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=20869.msg258435#msg258435
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eldar

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Re: Behind The Curve??
« Reply #65 on: January 24, 2008, 09:13:22 AM »
Yup and gm and ford are going the same way. It is a sorry state for sure. I dont mind a honda or toyota but I like the looks of most gm vehicles better. It really is a shame.

Offline Uncle Ernie

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Re: Behind The Curve??
« Reply #66 on: January 24, 2008, 09:43:06 AM »
Having worked (no- REALLY) at a place that sold used and reman engines and transmissions, and then worked at a state vehicle inspection station, it is my opinion that Chrysler is in bad shape because they make the stinkiest car and mini-van in the country.  The headlights are the first to cloud over, making it almost impossible to see at night- and it goes downhill from there.  The reason they're still in business is they have a good body design dept.

The only thing worse is an Izusu Rodeo, but that's not American.
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Offline edbikerii

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Re: Behind The Curve??
« Reply #67 on: January 24, 2008, 10:03:41 AM »
Having worked (no- REALLY) at a place that sold used and reman engines and transmissions, and then worked at a state vehicle inspection station, it is my opinion that Chrysler is in bad shape because they make the stinkiest car and mini-van in the country.  The headlights are the first to cloud over, making it almost impossible to see at night- and it goes downhill from there.  The reason they're still in business is they have a good body design dept.

The only thing worse is an Izusu Rodeo, but that's not American.

I agree.  Poor quality was a big part of Chrysler's problem.  Again, because of protectionism, Chrysler was able to survive profitably without improving their products and procedures for many years while the Japanese got way ahead.  Even the Germans cannot shake Chrysler's poor quality reputation, despite dramatic improvements over the past few years.  Worse yet, the horrible UAW contracts are crippling Chrysler so they can't afford to re-work everything.

We need some bold action if we are to save our auto manufacturing base.  Since the UAW refuses to be reasonable, we need something like busting up the Air Traffic Controller's union back in the 80s.
SOHC4 #289
1977 CB550K - SOLD
1997 YAMAHA XJ600S - SOLD
1986 GL1200I - SOLD
2004 BMW R1150R

Jetting: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=20869.msg258435#msg258435
Needles:  http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=20869.msg253711#msg253711

Offline 754

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Re: Behind The Curve??
« Reply #68 on: January 24, 2008, 10:05:28 AM »
The only high $ is the 69, the rest fall about even.

LMAO.. The 70, are worth around 1/2 of a sandcast price.. and a lot more than the late ones.

Actually I dont think there would be much trouble if we took a poll here, getting people to agree that earlier they are, the  higher the pricing.

There is a classic bike mag on the stands right now, with price guide in it.. now the late 750's are given a 2K price range in TOP condition!! To be be fair I dont think it is really accurate.. but hey..umm.. how many times more than it cost new is that??

(having a math block right now)....
Maker of the WELDLESS 750 Frame Kit
dodogas99@gmail.com
Kelowna B.C.       Canada

My next bike will be a ..ANFOB.....

It's All part of the ADVENTURE...

73 836cc.. Green, had it for 3 decades!!
Lost quite a few CB 750's along the way

eldar

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Re: Behind The Curve??
« Reply #69 on: January 24, 2008, 11:03:48 AM »
Well asthere is no real solid basis on your claim, well it is just an opinion. We all agree the sander is worth more cause of its rare nature. What is your source? Ebay? We all know how that fluctuates and is hardly a reliable source. Craigslist? Well that is suspect too as the ads there can be very misleading and pictures very poor IF there even are any.

I have checked out blue books and IF you find info, it is pretty lacking. On kbb the75 was 1115, the 78 900. Ok so slightly over 200 but that is just an estimate and we all know that. And that is what the dealer would charge. If you used it as a trade in the 75 drops to 685 and the 78 to 520. So the gap narrows. The only reason the 77/78 MAY be of less value is cause they do not have the more vintage look some like but that does not mean it isnt as good or even better. Remember the 75F? How it was made to bring back the performance the 71-74 bikes lost? The K8 engine is a version of that engine and performs as well. That was posted here before about a year ago.

Quote
The K-model is all this plus another 3 percent. It has an edge because it's built and sold as a touring bike, so factors such as ground clearance and weight aren't as significant as they are to a bike with "Super Sport" in its name. Ideally the K model would also have ComStar wheels, dual horns, a rear disc and the F's power, but even without them, it's a fine touring machine tainted only by less than satisfactory suspension compliance. Its 1/4-mile time of 13.33 doesn't seem impressive compared to the F's hot-blooded 12.7, until you realize it's still three tenths quicker than the original CB750, three tenths quicker than the current Yamaha 750, and quicker than the BMW 750. In short it's no slouch, and there's a simple explanation why: the K engine is last year's Super Sport engine with the new accelerator-pump carburetion system.

This is taken from our own site from a mag that can be accessed from the home page.
It is for the 77 but the 78 is virtually identical to the 77 and reportedly slightly more powerful. Wow it beats the 69 which beats all the other K bikes from 70 - 76.

So in short it DOES appear looks are the only thing making the early Ks worth more. hmmm.

Offline Uncle Ernie

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Re: Behind The Curve??
« Reply #70 on: January 24, 2008, 11:05:47 AM »
I saw that price guide last week.  It's so far off as to be rendered a waste of trees.  Completely off on everything I looked up.
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eldar

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Re: Behind The Curve??
« Reply #71 on: January 24, 2008, 11:11:31 AM »
It was the only guide I could find that went back that far. They are all a waste of trees I think.

Offline Bob Wessner

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Re: Behind The Curve??
« Reply #72 on: January 24, 2008, 12:23:14 PM »
ok what I meant to say is that the early 750 owners resemble their bikes! ;D

Not true, my bike is much better looking. :)
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Offline Raul CB750K1

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Re: Behind The Curve??
« Reply #73 on: January 24, 2008, 01:54:56 PM »
"Phallacious" - no, it was not on purpose, sorry for my mistake  ;D -I did translate "conspiranoid" from the spanish equivalent in another thread though.

Are HD ripping off customers? I don't think so. Probably they have a lower margin than the japanese brands. They all have something in common: they will charge for their products the maximum they can make the customers pay. In some sense, Harley, as Gillette does, give the razor away to sell the blades. Even if they don't make a big profit with the bikes, they do it with the accesories.


¿Resale value? Just as the manufacturers do, the bike owners try to make the buyers to pay the maximum they are willing to pay. Why HD have a bigger resale value? First, because they have a bigger purchase value, and second because there is people willing to buy them, so they have scarcity value. So the resale value is not an important factor at all, because if you buy a bike, use it for three years, and sell it then, you just have to do the math about how much did it cost you to enjoy the bike, and enjoyment is very personal, so it is up to each one to decide whether the enjoyment of his bike, be it a HD or a Suzuki, was worth it.

Fact is that, as long as any vehicle is in roadworthy and decent condition, they reach a nominal value and never get down from it, and if it survives for a few years, the price increase for the reason mentioned above: scarcity value, as many of their brothers were sent to the scrapyard. So it can happen with some vehicles that you buy them, use them, and sell them for the same or even more than you paid for it, therefore your experience has been twice as rewarding, like getting paid for going to a brothel....  ;D


My old bikes, even if sold at a higher value than the buying cost, will be a very bad investment. If I have to compute the time put in them it would be the worst investment ever. For that reason, knowing the "official" resale value is pointless because it never reflects the individual situations.


Sandcasts are worth what they are selling for? If the morgage crisis in the US goes on, the interest rate goes up, and the job count goes down, maybe some sandcast owners will need to get rid of their bikes to raise some money. But there will be less buyers willing to spend the asking price, so sellers will have to lower the price, exactly until they match somebody's willing maximum price. Again, scarcity value, but less demand.


If you need to consider the resale value when you buy a bike, you are investing in the wrong market.

Offline Roach Carver

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Re: Behind The Curve??
« Reply #74 on: January 24, 2008, 02:04:03 PM »
cant believe I am getting in this hornets nest but anyway.....


BMW R/75....1948.00

BSA Rocket 3....1765.00

       Lightening..1430.00

Sportster XLH ...1840.00

Sportster XLCH...1767.00

Electra Glide...1978.00

Honda CB 750...1490.00

If I am reading this right,  ::), the harley appears to have appreciated over time more than the honda. i.e. the harley was roughly 2k and now would be worth maybe 8 or 10k?? the average honda, even a nice one (sandcast excluded) would be worth 4-5k? Dont get me wrong, I love all my hondas. They have their strong suits. I have a 74 bmw r75/5 that I love for its own quirky reasons. is it better? I dont know, but I still enjoy riding it and if I had a harley I would probably like it as well. I would say better is subjective. I like them all because of their differences