Author Topic: 1980 CB650c Rest-o by a crabby "old-timer"  (Read 129348 times)

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Offline Hush

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Re: 1980 CB650c Rest-o by a total newbie (...still having problems starting.)
« Reply #850 on: September 08, 2009, 02:01:31 PM »
"Once more into the breach dear girl"! ;)
I think the thing I most like about motorcycling is the speed at which my brain must process information at to avoid the numb skulls who are eating pies, playing the ukulele, applying make-up etc in the comfort of their airconditioned armchairs as they make random attempts to kill me!!!!!!!

Offline Frankenkit

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Re: 1980 CB650c Rest-o by a total newbie (...still having problems starting.)
« Reply #851 on: September 08, 2009, 02:56:07 PM »
I'll become the tour guide for our special corner of hell.

"On your right, you'll see Hitler, Stalin, and Honda's electrics designers... "
"Moderation in all things - especially moderation. Too much moderation is excessive. The occasional excess is all part of living the moderate life."
2012 CBR250R "Black Betty"
1980 CB650c- (sold) Delilah
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Offline manjisann

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Re: 1980 CB650c Rest-o by a total newbie (...still having problems starting.)
« Reply #852 on: September 08, 2009, 03:03:13 PM »
Quote
"On your right, you'll see Hitler, Stalin, and Honda's electrics designers... "

HAHAHAHAHAHA good luck!

Brandon
Sure it's for sale! How much you ask?? Well, how much are you willing to pay??? Now triple it, that's the price!

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1980 CB650 Custom
1971 CB500 Frame 650 engine: Project

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Offline Frankenkit

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Re: 1980 CB650c Rest-o by a total newbie (...still having problems starting.)
« Reply #853 on: September 08, 2009, 11:07:36 PM »
so... I just spent the last half hour reading over this War and Peace of bike story/thread/projects... and I want to thank the folks who've followed along and encouraged me the whole way. I've been through a whole lot and felt like throwing in the towel quite a few times... it's the people that have told me to hang in there and cheered me on that have really made it easier to walk out to the garage and try again.

Tomorrow I'll start working on that charging thing again... because as I think Mystic said about 10 pages ago.. "there are no problems, only possibilities".
"Moderation in all things - especially moderation. Too much moderation is excessive. The occasional excess is all part of living the moderate life."
2012 CBR250R "Black Betty"
1980 CB650c- (sold) Delilah
1973 CL350- Lola?
Sweet, bubbly, Buddha - Say it ain't so!!!
Stuff for sale

Offline Hush

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Re: 1980 CB650c Rest-o by a total newbie (...still having problems starting.)
« Reply #854 on: September 09, 2009, 04:09:31 AM »
Um that particular corner of Hell is reserved for Hashimoto Hino, chief designer of the Kami kazi SOHC4 carburetter system. ;D
I think the thing I most like about motorcycling is the speed at which my brain must process information at to avoid the numb skulls who are eating pies, playing the ukulele, applying make-up etc in the comfort of their airconditioned armchairs as they make random attempts to kill me!!!!!!!

Offline razor02097

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Re: 1980 CB650c Rest-o by a total newbie (...still having problems starting.)
« Reply #855 on: September 09, 2009, 04:36:11 AM »
Um that particular corner of Hell is reserved for Hashimoto Hino, chief designer of the Kami kazi SOHC4 carburetter system. ;D

he who snickers when you complain about the 120lb of force it takes to twist the throttle...

he who chuckles when you need to replace the air cut off valves...

he who busts a gut laughing when you strip the carbs and don't remember how they go together...
Project Rina

That is an inconceivably egregious transgression against my rudimentary concordance of socially shunned individuals.

Offline Frankenkit

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Re: 1980 CB650c Rest-o by a total newbie (...still having problems starting.)
« Reply #856 on: September 09, 2009, 08:11:47 AM »
He who positively #$%*s himself when you break the little plastic, unobtanium choke lever... oh yes. I know him.
"Moderation in all things - especially moderation. Too much moderation is excessive. The occasional excess is all part of living the moderate life."
2012 CBR250R "Black Betty"
1980 CB650c- (sold) Delilah
1973 CL350- Lola?
Sweet, bubbly, Buddha - Say it ain't so!!!
Stuff for sale

Offline razor02097

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Re: 1980 CB650c Rest-o by a total newbie (...still having problems starting.)
« Reply #857 on: September 09, 2009, 08:28:37 AM »
He who positively #$%*s himself when you break the little plastic, unobtanium choke lever... oh yes. I know him.

Dental floss.... fixed

kidding.... or am I?  ;)
Project Rina

That is an inconceivably egregious transgression against my rudimentary concordance of socially shunned individuals.

Offline Frankenkit

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Re: 1980 CB650c Rest-o by a total newbie (...still having problems starting.)
« Reply #858 on: September 09, 2009, 08:33:55 AM »
:o
... and I thought I was living dangerously attempting to fix one with epoxy!
"Moderation in all things - especially moderation. Too much moderation is excessive. The occasional excess is all part of living the moderate life."
2012 CBR250R "Black Betty"
1980 CB650c- (sold) Delilah
1973 CL350- Lola?
Sweet, bubbly, Buddha - Say it ain't so!!!
Stuff for sale

Offline razor02097

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Re: 1980 CB650c Rest-o by a total newbie (...still having problems starting.)
« Reply #859 on: September 09, 2009, 08:56:11 AM »
:o
... and I thought I was living dangerously attempting to fix one with epoxy!

Oh if you only knew all the macgyver crap I have done to vehicles to make it home...

If your choke lever is inop and you need to cold start... use hand to cover air box intake till she warms up.
If your front caliper seizes due to defective MC open bleed screw to let pressure out to continue home
If your throttle cable breaks use idle adjustment to limp home.
If your 30A main fuse crumbles a dime fits a treat to get yourself home.
Project Rina

That is an inconceivably egregious transgression against my rudimentary concordance of socially shunned individuals.

Offline Frankenkit

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Re: 1980 CB650c Rest-o by a total newbie
« Reply #860 on: September 12, 2009, 10:06:54 PM »
Problem: Bike not charging (again), will initially charge at decent voltage, then voltage will decrease.


Inspection:

I had the bike on trickle charge for a couple of days, then unplugged her and let her sit unassisted for our 3 day camping trip, just to see what the battery would do.

Trickle charger charges at 13v. 
Battery tonight after sitting 3 days- 12.50.

I figured first things' first- the charging itself was doing weird things, so that was where I'd start.
Flipped the multimeter to ohms and measured the black and white spades by the R/R.  By measuring there, I would not only be measuring rotor resistance but also the added resistance of the brushes, the wiring up through, and the connector. 

I got a crazy number- 85.5 ohms.
WTF.

So, something was wrong there.

I took off the alternator cover/stator.

The rotor tested at 5.6, but it was dirty with grease and carbon.   (I should mention that when my valve adjustment gasket leaked, oil ran down the side of the engine and some got past my gasket)

Brushes, measured with one test lead on the brush, the other lead on the corresponding R/R spade, both measured .8 ohms.  Pretty normal.

Put everything back together and we got some wild fluctuations, in the 1-200s, and with some fiddling, could get it to settle around 50 ohms.

I cleaned up the sliprings with some brakekleen and 1500 sand paper, then put the cover back on and tested- Closer to 30 ohms, but not quite 'there'. 

Solution?:
Cleaned up the contact parts of the brushes with brakekleen and sandpaper, and noticed something interesting.

On the rotor, there are two nubs, one on either side, to which one attaches the wires that connect to the slip rings, presumably, as resistance between these two nubs is exactly the resistance between sliprings.  One slipring nubbin was resoldered a bit 'taller' than on the 'stock' rotor, and had been making intermittant contact with the edges of the stator. We touched it with a file taking care to preserve the soldered connection. 

We put everything back together at that point and resistance at the RR measured 5.8 ohms, as it should.

Conclusion:

As it was getting late and I have work tomorrow, I didn't get to really test my 'solution' but removing some of the solder material, as well as cleaning up some of the carbon dust, seemed to yield definitive results in terms of resistance reduction at the regulator/rectifier.  The solder problem also made sense as far as why each individual component would test out within expected tolerances, yet as an assembled unit, the resistance was way off the chart. 
"Moderation in all things - especially moderation. Too much moderation is excessive. The occasional excess is all part of living the moderate life."
2012 CBR250R "Black Betty"
1980 CB650c- (sold) Delilah
1973 CL350- Lola?
Sweet, bubbly, Buddha - Say it ain't so!!!
Stuff for sale

Offline Hush

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Re: 1980 CB650c Rest-o by a total newbie
« Reply #861 on: September 13, 2009, 03:18:03 AM »
That all makes sense Kit, lets hope it works a cure for you. :)
I think the thing I most like about motorcycling is the speed at which my brain must process information at to avoid the numb skulls who are eating pies, playing the ukulele, applying make-up etc in the comfort of their airconditioned armchairs as they make random attempts to kill me!!!!!!!

Offline mystic_1

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Re: 1980 CB650c Rest-o by a total newbie
« Reply #862 on: September 13, 2009, 08:45:19 AM »
You, with troubleshooting skills like this, you really need to stop calling yourself 'a total newbie'.

:)

Let us know how it turns out.

mystic_1
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Offline Frankenkit

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Re: 1980 CB650c Rest-o by a crabby "old-timer"
« Reply #863 on: September 13, 2009, 08:51:00 AM »
Changed it, Mystic, whaddaya think? :D ;D
"Moderation in all things - especially moderation. Too much moderation is excessive. The occasional excess is all part of living the moderate life."
2012 CBR250R "Black Betty"
1980 CB650c- (sold) Delilah
1973 CL350- Lola?
Sweet, bubbly, Buddha - Say it ain't so!!!
Stuff for sale

Offline mystic_1

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Re: 1980 CB650c Rest-o by a crabby "old-timer"
« Reply #864 on: September 13, 2009, 09:14:55 AM »
Get offa my lawn!

<shakes cane threateningly>


You gotta stick out your lower jaw and scowl for the complete effect :)

mystic_1
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Offline Frankenkit

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Re: 1980 CB650c Rest-o by a crabby "old-timer"
« Reply #865 on: September 13, 2009, 09:16:41 AM »
:D  ...and spray the local kids with my garden hose when they get too close.  I know, I'm takin' notes. :D
"Moderation in all things - especially moderation. Too much moderation is excessive. The occasional excess is all part of living the moderate life."
2012 CBR250R "Black Betty"
1980 CB650c- (sold) Delilah
1973 CL350- Lola?
Sweet, bubbly, Buddha - Say it ain't so!!!
Stuff for sale

Offline Frankenkit

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Re: 1980 CB650c Rest-o by a crabby "old-timer"
« Reply #866 on: September 13, 2009, 09:19:06 AM »
I'm going to put this out there- any suggestions on how to speed up my turn signal blinkers?  I have a 'faster' flasher unit in than is technically stock, and it's brand new, but still the blinkers are pretty slow.  The speed is probably what was stock for these bikes, but modern vehicles tend to have faster flash to catch attention better, and that's what I'm going for, too. 
"Moderation in all things - especially moderation. Too much moderation is excessive. The occasional excess is all part of living the moderate life."
2012 CBR250R "Black Betty"
1980 CB650c- (sold) Delilah
1973 CL350- Lola?
Sweet, bubbly, Buddha - Say it ain't so!!!
Stuff for sale

Offline mystic_1

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Re: 1980 CB650c Rest-o by a crabby "old-timer"
« Reply #867 on: September 13, 2009, 09:32:47 AM »
Using a thermal type flasher, you can upgrade your turn signal bulbs to LEDs and then adjust your flash rate by adding resistance as necessary. 

Electronic flashers won't respond like that however so you may consider looking at different flasher units, perhaps something off of an import car would have a faster blink rate.

mystic_1
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Offline Frankenkit

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Re: 1980 CB650c Rest-o by a crabby "old-timer"
« Reply #868 on: September 13, 2009, 10:27:53 AM »
Where would I add this resistor, ideally, and how much resistance, do you think?
"Moderation in all things - especially moderation. Too much moderation is excessive. The occasional excess is all part of living the moderate life."
2012 CBR250R "Black Betty"
1980 CB650c- (sold) Delilah
1973 CL350- Lola?
Sweet, bubbly, Buddha - Say it ain't so!!!
Stuff for sale

Offline Hush

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Re: 1980 CB650c Rest-o by a crabby "old-timer"
« Reply #869 on: September 13, 2009, 05:25:34 PM »
Would lesser watt bulbs work for you, I used to mix them up all the time and the lower resistance ones went like Xmas lights while the higher resistance models took an age to warm up.
My flasher unit is just a cheapie from Supercheap (our local el cheapo car parts place) and I fitted the same to get my red lights to flash on the front crash bars.
I think the thing I most like about motorcycling is the speed at which my brain must process information at to avoid the numb skulls who are eating pies, playing the ukulele, applying make-up etc in the comfort of their airconditioned armchairs as they make random attempts to kill me!!!!!!!

Offline mystic_1

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Re: 1980 CB650c Rest-o by a crabby "old-timer"
« Reply #870 on: September 13, 2009, 06:18:11 PM »
Where would I add this resistor, ideally, and how much resistance, do you think?

Here's a thread that talks about this topic:

http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=4488.0

mystic_1
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My build thread:  http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=68952.0

Offline Frankenkit

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Re: 1980 CB650c Rest-o by a crabby "old-timer"
« Reply #871 on: September 13, 2009, 06:20:12 PM »
cool.  I switched back to the incandescent lights because the LEDs just didn't seem to be bright enough, as they were viewed at a 90* angle.
"Moderation in all things - especially moderation. Too much moderation is excessive. The occasional excess is all part of living the moderate life."
2012 CBR250R "Black Betty"
1980 CB650c- (sold) Delilah
1973 CL350- Lola?
Sweet, bubbly, Buddha - Say it ain't so!!!
Stuff for sale

Offline mystic_1

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Re: 1980 CB650c Rest-o by a crabby "old-timer"
« Reply #872 on: September 13, 2009, 06:26:41 PM »
Yup, that's a problem with LED bulbs, they are very directional.  There are newer units on the market (http://superbrightleds.com/ comes to mind) that have better viewing angles.

BTW here's a commercially-available load resistor for LED applications:

http://www.v-leds.com/BlinkerWarning-Fix/Turn-Signal-Fix/6-OHM-50W-2-BULB-LED-p4783296.html

There's some diagrams there that may prove useful, they show the resistor mounted across the bulb leads at each turn signal. 

mystic_1
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- John Augustus Shedd

My build thread:  http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=68952.0

Offline Frankenkit

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Re: 1980 CB650c Rest-o by a crabby "old-timer"
« Reply #873 on: September 13, 2009, 07:07:00 PM »
oh. Another question:
MickeyX rode D around all day today, many, many starts etc, battery read 12.54v tonight, so I think we're golden.

While she was 'testing' D, she noticed the front end was a little bouncy, too, so she got 20w fork oil.  Paul said 15-20w and I have 10 in there and it's still too springy, so I figure the 20w will be good.  

The only problem?
I'm not sure how to take the fork caps off now without breaking my wrist or chin or something, because those springs took a *lot* of pressure to compress decently.  Any suggestions?  Will the 20w maybe overdampen the forks?
"Moderation in all things - especially moderation. Too much moderation is excessive. The occasional excess is all part of living the moderate life."
2012 CBR250R "Black Betty"
1980 CB650c- (sold) Delilah
1973 CL350- Lola?
Sweet, bubbly, Buddha - Say it ain't so!!!
Stuff for sale

Offline MickeyX

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Re: 1980 CB650c Rest-o by a crabby "old-timer"
« Reply #874 on: September 13, 2009, 08:22:20 PM »
I could have sworn you said 20w.  :-\

The bike corners like she's on rails but the front is still a little bouncy like Kit said. I even got up on the tank and really leaned forward, it did nothing to stop the pogo effect. It's smooth as butter on the highway though.
 
Soooooooo, I was parked at the Honda shop and when I came out, 2 squids were next to me on their crotch rockets, about to leave. They just kinda snorted in my general direction when I walked up, looked down their noses. An older gent came over and asked me some questions, was really interested and wanted to hear her run. I barely hit the button and she roared to life. He laughed and said his never started that easy. Then I gave the throttle a twist or two and the squids' jaws dropped. It was a golden moment.  ;D ;D

I had her doin' 70+mph in 3rd gear to merge on the highway. She loved it.  8) I think she would have had more but I decided to just shift so I would stop scaring myself.  :P
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