Author Topic: coil replacement  (Read 3980 times)

0 Members and 3 Guests are viewing this topic.

eldar

  • Guest
coil replacement
« on: August 02, 2005, 07:47:12 PM »
I am looking to replce my stock coils for some dyna coils for a 750 custom.

Says they are rated at 2.2 ohms

Will there be any issues with these coils with points setup?

Should I use the resistor boots or will that matter?

I know this is lower than the 5 ohm on the stockers. Will a minor regulator adjustment compensate?

Offline Robert

  • Enthusiast
  • **
  • Posts: 101
  • Sorry for my English
Re: coil replacement
« Reply #1 on: August 03, 2005, 06:54:44 AM »
Using a 2.2 Ohm coil you would more than double the current that the points have to switch.
At 12.5 Volt with a 5.0 Ohm coil you have a max of 2.50 Ampere flowing.
With a 2.2 Ohm coil you have a max of 5,68 Ampere flowing, this will e.g. cause prematurely burning out contacts -> no good

You can't compensate much for the higher current by adjusting the regulator.

Use either coils with 5 Ohm or get rid of the points using a transistorized ignition with hall sensors or inductive pickups that can cope with such high currents.

« Last Edit: August 03, 2005, 02:03:19 PM by Robert »

Offline cben750f0

  • nothin draws attention like a classic bike!!
  • Master
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,612
  • '75 CB750F0 Gladstone NQLD OZ
Re: coil replacement
« Reply #2 on: August 03, 2005, 07:03:44 AM »
you could try VF1000/750 coils... 3.2 ohms.. and mount like this...peace
you are never to old, to act like a kid... be safe
funny thing,chasing someone down hill on a bike 30 years older than theirs..
he said \\\\\\\'it was like watching a 250kg unguided weapon getting stuck up you bum\\\\\\\ http://www.bikepics.com/members/trixtrem/

Offline dusterdude

  • Really Old Timer ...
  • *******
  • Posts: 8,493
Re: coil replacement
« Reply #3 on: August 03, 2005, 07:46:16 AM »
i thought dyna had 3.2 ohm coils
mark
1972 k1 750
1949 fl panhead
1 1/2 gl1100 goldwings
1998 cbr600 f3

Offline cben750f0

  • nothin draws attention like a classic bike!!
  • Master
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,612
  • '75 CB750F0 Gladstone NQLD OZ
Re: coil replacement
« Reply #4 on: August 03, 2005, 09:05:21 AM »
yeah they do... though i think these are a bit cheaper...peace
you are never to old, to act like a kid... be safe
funny thing,chasing someone down hill on a bike 30 years older than theirs..
he said \\\\\\\'it was like watching a 250kg unguided weapon getting stuck up you bum\\\\\\\ http://www.bikepics.com/members/trixtrem/

Offline Dennis

  • Hot Shot
  • ***
  • Posts: 721
Re: coil replacement
« Reply #5 on: August 03, 2005, 09:46:59 AM »
Quote
you could try VF1000/750 coils... 3.2 ohms.. and mount like this...

Hey CBen, are you running those coils with points?
or some type of electronic ignition?
Thanks

eldar

  • Guest
Re: coil replacement
« Reply #6 on: August 03, 2005, 01:10:49 PM »
Yeah what did you need to change to mount those 3.2 coils? I figured that 2.2 would be too low. If the 3.2s work with points, then I might go with those. I will then get solid copper core wire and resistor-less plug caps! Not like I have to worry about rf problems. Hey maybe I can cause trouble for those around me on cell phones!

Offline dusterdude

  • Really Old Timer ...
  • *******
  • Posts: 8,493
Re: coil replacement
« Reply #7 on: August 03, 2005, 01:20:30 PM »
eldar,i have 3.2 coils off of a yammyha i think and i run points,so far so good.
mark
1972 k1 750
1949 fl panhead
1 1/2 gl1100 goldwings
1998 cbr600 f3

Offline cben750f0

  • nothin draws attention like a classic bike!!
  • Master
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,612
  • '75 CB750F0 Gladstone NQLD OZ
Re: coil replacement
« Reply #8 on: August 04, 2005, 05:41:38 AM »
i had a mount of a 750 custon, nad cut the ends off the alloy mount and taped it M6, then bolted the coils on, these fit under the tank, the 750 custom coils didnt fit under the tank, they are too wide, i am running a Dyna 'S' too... am using copper core, and NGK 5kohm plug caps... dont get grabbed by these suckers... had the plugs sitting on the rocker cover checking the spark, and wasnt paying attention when i turned it over, found that one of the spark pllugs was touching my hand when i hit the starter button.... needless to say it was an 'electrofying' experience...peace
you are never to old, to act like a kid... be safe
funny thing,chasing someone down hill on a bike 30 years older than theirs..
he said \\\\\\\'it was like watching a 250kg unguided weapon getting stuck up you bum\\\\\\\ http://www.bikepics.com/members/trixtrem/

eldar

  • Guest
Re: coil replacement
« Reply #9 on: August 04, 2005, 09:40:25 AM »
Well as I dont have the cash to drop on an electronic system, will these coils work ok with points?

eldar

  • Guest
Re: coil replacement
« Reply #10 on: August 04, 2005, 06:41:06 PM »
Will v65 magna coils work with points?
Do the cb900s have stronger coils?

eldar

  • Guest
Re: coil replacement
« Reply #11 on: August 04, 2005, 07:26:14 PM »
I forgot to add this. Does anyone know where to find spark plug caps that are NOT resistor caps? I have not found any online yet. 

I am either going to go 0 ohm plug caps or hotter coils.

Offline Robert

  • Enthusiast
  • **
  • Posts: 101
  • Sorry for my English
Re: coil replacement
« Reply #12 on: August 05, 2005, 05:20:42 PM »
1. The CB 900 coils have a primary resistance of 2.1 Ohm and a secondary resistance of about 12 kOhm.
(primary inductance is about 6 or 7 mH if that's of any interest for anyone) Too much beef for your points imho.

2. Plug caps, I'm searching too, I want beautifully looking, jawdropping plug caps without any resistor in it. So if someone knows a source? In the meantime I'll tell you what I did: Modifying the commonly available NGK plug caps by taking the slotted screw out, throwing the resistor in the bin (keep the spring you'll also find in there), and using a copper rod (OD: 0.18 inch) slightly longer than the resistor was. The pole (sp?) of a screwdriver cut to fit may work too. Polishing the end of this NGK-resistor-killerâ„¢ that later contacts the spring and the screw is a good idea.



« Last Edit: August 05, 2005, 05:22:44 PM by Robert »

eldar

  • Guest
Re: coil replacement
« Reply #13 on: August 05, 2005, 05:25:58 PM »
Ok there is one for the cb900 coils being to strong for points. only 1 year diff and ohms are way different.
Anyone else with input?

What end does this screw come out from? I know the wire end screws into the plug wire and the other end fits over the plug and the end of the plug is threaded and does not have a head. It is like a point.

Offline Robert

  • Enthusiast
  • **
  • Posts: 101
  • Sorry for my English
Re: coil replacement
« Reply #14 on: August 05, 2005, 06:00:34 PM »
cb 900 has a transistorized igntion (TI), if it makes you feel better, the coils in a TI have to have a lower primary res, as the voltage drops quite a bit in the power transistors used at that time.

If your caps are not any different than what they sell here in Europe, the end that fits over the spark plug is unscrew-able.

For what it's worth ONE 5 Kohm resistance (cable or cap or plug) in the secondary ignition circuit won't hurt.

Offline Robert

  • Enthusiast
  • **
  • Posts: 101
  • Sorry for my English
Re: coil replacement
« Reply #15 on: August 05, 2005, 06:08:16 PM »
More input  ;D....


You obviously want to pimp up your ignition system?  :)
Sorry I'll take it a bit OT to get back to the topic later.

The most simplest of the Kirchhoff laws (Volt = Current x Ohm) does not apply much in the 2nd circuit of the ignition system as there are other parameters the Kirchhoff law does not include (time, inductance, frequency, capacity, reactance...).
In most cases it is OK to go with ONE 5 kOhm resistance (plug or cap or cable) it won't "weaken the spark" at all.
It can even make things worse as the insulation of the high voltage (1st part of the spark process, spark gap acts as a capacitor) and high current (2nd part of the same spark process, spark gap becomes a resistor, the resistor is the "spark" = current in ionized gas) gets more critical and one obviously wants to have as much spark power as possible to end in the combustion chamber and not somewhere else.



Now back to the topic (I think). The coils you've mentioned have one in common.
1. Low primary resistance
2. Designed for transistorized ignition.


Regarding 1: While the primary resistance of a coil is very important (indirectly responsible for the maximum energy the coil can "store", it is not the only parameter that matters. E.g. the inductance of the primary coil has to be tuned to the dwell time of the ignitions system. If you go for a new coil leaving everything else of the ignition system as is, a new stock ign. coil or an aftermarket coil identical to the stock coil is your best option. New means unused.

Regarding 2: One reason for the low resistances of coils fitted to transitorized ignition systems is the voltage drop in the power transistors used. The voltage drop is quite a bit, so to compansate this, the manufacturer goes for a low resistance to compensate this. With points you don't have much voltage drop, given that the wiring and all connectors are allright, 5 Ohm as a prim. resistance is not a problem.
Another route manufacturer go, is to establish an rpm dependent electronic dwell time control, so they can go with a low primary resistance without blowing the coil after two minutes with low rpms.



In my opinion, the stock coils are more than sufficient for stock engines with stock specs.
On the other hand, from my very personal experience, half of the ignition coils that have served more than 20 years have a problem with the insulation even if they look good at first (primary/secondary resistance tested good), the other half is completely shot...ok that was mildly exaggerated..
Only if you plan to increase compression ratio, rpms, or go for a much leaner mixture (read race) or reliability is not your cup of tea etc. you will need something else.

Imho your best option is to get rid of the points, and go for a complete ignition system out of one hand designed to fit your bike (dyna, silent hektik, boyer etc.). This will give you more ignition power (can't hurt) and will also increase reliability.

Your next best option is to get rid of the 20+ year old coils, and replace with new ones of the same type.

eldar

  • Guest
Re: coil replacement
« Reply #16 on: August 05, 2005, 06:20:24 PM »
There is where we get to the problem. New coils are $30 each. A new electronic ign is $160+. At this time and with rinding season in its latter half in the north, I am looking for something temp to give a bit more spark till I can make these changes.

I wonder about coils since many seem to have changed them but dont say if they use electronic ign.
I can always do accel coils I suppose but we are still at $120 there.

So this is my dilema. I want a small boost in spark for cheap. I may do cbens relay trick.

Offline kghost

  • Really Old Timer ...
  • *******
  • Posts: 6,855
  • www.facebook.com/RetroMecanicaAustralia
Re: coil replacement
« Reply #17 on: August 05, 2005, 07:18:44 PM »
Cheap, Good, and Quick...........

You can have any two of the above.............

You want cheap? I'll send you a used coil. Just pay shipping.
Stranger in a strange land

eldar

  • Guest
Re: coil replacement
« Reply #18 on: August 05, 2005, 07:24:35 PM »
What type coils? Mine are good just desire stronger spark.

Hey robert, I have not contacted them yet but this site has Dyna wires in solid core.

http://www.dynoman.net/ignition/dynaWires.html

Offline Robert

  • Enthusiast
  • **
  • Posts: 101
  • Sorry for my English
Re: coil replacement
« Reply #19 on: August 08, 2005, 06:29:52 PM »
ga-reat!

To come back to my previous wish-wash (catchword: NGK-resistor-killerâ„¢) there were already other people with the same idea, and they made even pictures of the procedure:




eldar

  • Guest
Re: coil replacement
« Reply #20 on: August 08, 2005, 07:02:03 PM »
That is what I was looking for! Now I can rig it until I get something better.