Topic: Politics: For All Those into USA Bashing

[patpollin]

america please keep your oil drills the hell out of alaska... to even think of wrecking one of the last wild places in this country because you can't figure out how be independent of oil is pretty damn selfish and stupid, not to mention how short term of a solution drilling in alaska would be. 

[BobbyR]

I must take exception to one thing Raul said. India does not have very good engineers. In fact they suck and more companies are finding that out and backing away. We used them for a simple job and it was a nightmare. Europe has good engineers. The best kids from Japan and the rest of Asia come to the US or go to Europe for engineering schools.

You can have bad experiences. But the company I used to work for -formerly Siemens, now Nokia Siemens Networks merge- moved their computer programming department to India. The supervision software for most of the telecom systems was developed in India. It was pretty much stable, if you can say that on a Windows-based system. Furthermore, I have worked with indian and pakistan workers and, even if not outstanding, seemed to me at the same level than me or my other colleagues from around the World. If you add that they spend less time on the coffee break or web surfing at work hours, and they get paid less, you know what always comes next.

"Quality" seems to be something very underrated these times. Years ago, companies wanted to last and they knew that only with good quality could they build a reputation and survive. Now, companies are owned by investors and they only want to maximize the profit in the short term, and when the reputation goes out of the window, sell the shares and invest somewhere else. The only place where "reputation" is an asset is in creating a powerful logo, so you can subcontract the manufacturing to a foreign company, and sell the products with a huge margin investing almost nothing. But for creating a powerful logo you don't need quality, just a whole lotta advertising and some popular endorser.

Actually I am teaching a class for Seimens Transporttation in Boston next month. I am speaking oif mechanical engineering. Ypu are right about quality. It has gone away.

[Raul CB750K1]

Actually I am teaching a class for Seimens Transporttation in Boston next month. I am speaking oif mechanical engineering. Ypu are right about quality. It has gone away.

Why don't you remove your riding gloves before typing?   

[Aaron J Williams]

america please keep your oil drills the hell out of alaska... to even think of wrecking one of the last wild places in this country because you can't figure out how to be independent of oil is pretty damn selfish and stupid, not to mention how short term of a solution drilling in alaska would be. 

I find your statement quite interesting though some of the assumptions you try to pass on as fact are patently false. Lets look at them, shall we?

ANWAR is one of the last wild places in the country.
Attached is the latest land use table from the USDA which states that of 1937.7 MILLION acres in the lower 48 states only 108.1 million acres are "developed" meaning cities, suburbs,towns,villiages, etc.  This does not include Alaska which is 375 MILLION acres itself. You would have me believe that 5% of our land mass constitutes a majority of our land mass and that wilderness is in short supply. Sorry, I'm not buying it.

Drilling for oil and natural gas would be "wrecking Alaska"
A hundred years ago I would have agreed but we now have this stuff called "technology" which allows us to drill while leaving the area virtually untouched. Since this forum is not the place to go in depth on the issue, here is a link to 250,000 articles on the subject for you to familiarize yourself with.
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=environmentally+friendly+drilling&btnG=Google+Search
I also remember the dire predictions of destruction that were spewed when the Alaskan Pipeline was installed. It was going to decimate the Caribou herd and render the land toxic, blah,blah,blah.
The lease for the pipeline was renewed in 2004 and here is the Environmental impact statement given at the time.
http://www.tapseis.anl.gov/documents/index.cfm
It is pretty dry reading but to summarize it the environmental impact is negligible.  Just one more of many "sky is falling" myths the environmental fringe try to push on us so we will revert back to their Utopian wish for pre-industrial society.

We can't figure out how be independent of oil and we are  selfish and stupid.
Easy for you to say but the reality is that we live in a world which runs on oil. If I were to say that we can't figure out how to live without heat, light, transportation, modern medicine, commerce, and national defense, would I still be selfish and stupid?  If you had advocated for independence from FOREIGN oil  I would have agreed but to quit using oil altogether is lunacy at best and destruction of our society at worst.  The only technology which exists today that would have a great impact on our oil usage is nuclear power. Why are the environmentalist so against it then? It is proven safe, clean, cheap energy and yet the believers of the global warming myth hate it as much as they hate oil and post-industrial society. Why? What is wrong with nuclear? Why do they advocate for wind and solar and biofuel and hydrogen instead of nuclear power?

Not to mention how short term of a solution drilling in Alaska would be.
We have already drilled in Alaska many times which necessitated the Trans Alaskan Pipeline that has delivered over 13 BILLION barrels of oil to date. It is well known fact that Alaskan wells are the cleanest in the world. Lets assume that you are referring to drilling in ANWAR. You are right, and best estimates put those reserves at 11.6 to 31.5 billion barrels which would only last 30 to 50 years.  What makes you so sure that we won't have the technology in 30 to 50 years that will replace our power needs? Can you look at our technological growth in the last 50 years and honestly tell me we won't come up with something better?

I am a mechanic and a motorcycle lover and have a vested interest in oil fueled vehicles but I also heat my house and shop with a wood fired boiler and use fluorescent lighting exclusively even though there is a Mercury poisoning hazard involved. I selectively cut trees to maximize the health of the forest and only use what electricity I have to, never leaving lights on in an empty room, hanging clothes out to dry, etc.  We grow our own food, raise our own meat, and recycle junk vehicles to help preserve the environment. Why? Because I care about the environment and these measures lower my cost of living. You show me a cheaper, better way to live without oil and I'll embrace it wholeheartedly.

[tortelvis]

It's hard to imagine how the next administration could possibly do any worse than the current lot. At least the remaining hopefuls are all able to walk and chew gum at the same time, and hopefully don't have any personal axes to grind (George senior never managed to kill Saddam). I will never understand why even now, people still go off on Bill Clinton, who left the country in a damn sight better shape than the moron sitting in the White House will do. I suppose having sex with staff and lying about is far worse than attempting to start WW3. Besides, I'm positive that GWB has never told a lie to the American people in his entire life! Oh...wait a minute...WMD???

[Raul CB750K1]

I dare to make an assumption with no data to backup my theory, but regardless of how expensive the oil is now, if the US had to pay first-world wages to the workers of the oil plants, it would be even more expensive. Otherwise the US would have started to drill long time ago. Oil, like the beer you drink at the bar, is cheap -actually, oil is free for the taking-. The cost of it comes from the work that it takes to bring it to the surface and transport it. I feel that the only reason why Alaska has not been drilled yet is because it is not cost-effective compared to buying the oil abroad; when the rest of the oil reserves are exhausted it will be the time to know what EXPENSIVE oil means.

[Tower]

In America, I see a people that have stepped away or have been elbowed away from their responsibility of governing their own country.  In that gap have stepped specialty interests, primarily large corporations.  Good at propaganda, a.k.a. advertising, corporations have equated capitalism with democracy, and are now the ones running your country.  Corporate interests clearly do not match the interests of the majority except for a narrow band or materialism.  Corporations are not in the least bid democratic.  Yet corporate agendas have systematically guided Americans away from their root values all the while spinning to make their focus look correct.  

If I can be so bold to state key American values: family, fairness, and individual achievement.  These core values have been twisted into protectionism, right through might, and corporate achievement.  American family values cascade further to include honesty, thrift, and trust, to name a few. Again not conducive to easy manipulation, these values also have been twisted into "its OK as long as I can get away with it", "why save when I can satisfy my wants now", etc.  

Also, we should know that the world sees no difference between American people and their institutions, e.g. business, government, law.  Hence, a silent people are a people in silent agreement with what's going on.  The opening quote that started this subject thread is a great example of rationalization in the face of opposing values - a sort of cognative dissonance seeking to justify/explain these competing values.

Furthermore, many around the world believe America has only ever looked after itself in the global arena.  All foreign aide and dialogue has only ever tried to pave the way for domestic (mostly corporate) interests. i.e. always have there been strings attached.  e.g. sponsoring despots, overthrowing elected rulers and creating banana republics in order that cheap raw material continue to be made available to American interests, such as onetime support for Saddam, or the Shaw of Iran, and the list goes on.  

This approach certainly has provided a material high life for America, and hence the silent support is understandable.  But, at what cost to the social, family, and political fabric, and seemingly only on borrowed time. 

Looking at it another way: Why is America powerful?  Is it superior intellect, higher morality, better hygiene?  Unlikely.  Americans are simply people.  America may be powerful because Americans can and do buy things in large quantity for large sums of money.  The nation has that ability because of successful economic policy and structure of wages.  Keep eroding that economic structure, keep twisting core values, and keep ignoring warnings from others and what's left, another Russia?

Lest you be drinking your own bath water, believing that despite differing world opinion America is still right, it would be advisable to, at least, acknowledge that hubris, and take back your institutions.

[Aaron J Williams]

Tower, you are absolutely correct. Special interests have taken over the political power that the apathetic public discarded along with freedom and self responsibility. Americans are far more concerned about the Superbowl than the Supreme Court. As I said earlier, we are very poor stewards of the gifts our founding fathers gave us. Civics is no longer taught in high school, the electorate is woefully uneducated about how our republic is supposed to work, Politically correct multiculturalism is wiping the American spirit away and replacing it with diversity training, hate crimes, and the thought police. People are no longer thought of as individuals, but as members of groups which serves to de-humanize them to those in power who would use force to impose their will. The rule of law is fast becoming the rule of man and absolute truth is being erased by the ACLU and others of their ilk.

We can either embrace a return to our core values and civic duties or we can trade it all for despotism. The choice is ours if it's not already too late to choose.

[Frankenkit]

"Americans are far more concerned about the Superbowl than the Supreme Court."

Ain't that the truth!
It astounds me every day how much time educated Americans spend rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic.  Today in my college classes, there was a group theater showing of methods to combat racism, etc etc.  I expected a big group hug at the end.  When all was said and done, a big black woman stood up and said "Well that's all well and good in the classroom where rules etc. are established by the professor, but what of everyday life?   One can't live in sheer terror every day of offending someone. It's not realistic. By bending over backwards to be PC in our everyday life we lose sight of the main issues: equal rights, equal treatment, equal responsibilities.  I don't [effing] care what color someone is as long as they work hard and take pride in what they're doing.  If someone's [azz] is sitting on the corner, bumming for money and poppin' out children for welfare checks, I don't [give a damn] what color they are- they're [effing] lowlives!  There's no candy-coating it! This is a place of education!"
I needed to go over and thank her for her speech.  It took the presenters by surprise and way off track but she said exactly what I felt. 

As far as drilling in Alaska:
The tundra is an incredibly sensitive ecosystem.  Caribou live off *lichens* and low-growing grasses. They need to constantly keep moving in order to possibly find/eat enough to sustain their herds.  It's not like whitetails and muleys in the lower 48. The moose population faces the same challenges.  I have a close friend who works for the Alaskan wildlife refuge as a researcher.  Is she biased? I don't really think so... she just has an understanding of the ecosystem.  After seeing the Exxon oil disaster, and the fact that the company did jack #$%* to really clean it up (most of the work was done by volunteers and locals) I'd really rather not see drilling up there again.  It's bad enough that I can't go to Bend or to the Coast without seeing swaths of mass destruction wreaked by clearcuts and the ensuing mudslides.  Wth?

Still... I had my chance to leave the US 4 years ago.  people I was with said "Let's move to Canada."  I said "I can't leave- if everyone with any patriotic spirit and positive hope for this country leaves because that jackazz is in office, the whole country's #$%*ed.  I'm going to stay and make as many positive changes as I can." 

...so I'm still here.  I love this country, but the leadership sucks, and some of the ideologies are kind of backwards yet.  Cultural evolution happens with time and patience. We just need more motorcycle riders out there who believe in freedom, life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness.

Amen.

[Aaron J Williams]

Here's a little excerpt from the state of Alaska's department of fish and game.

"In the 1970s people were concerned about the effect of the trans-Alaska oil pipeline, expanding oil development, and increased disturbance from use of aircraft and snowmobiles on caribou. Although there was some displacement of caribou calving in the Prudhoe Bay oilfield, in general, caribou have not been adversely affected by human activities in Alaska. Pipelines and most other developments are built to allow for caribou movements, and caribou have shown us that they can adapt to the presence of people and machines."

Found on this web page:
http://www.adfg.state.ak.us/pubs/notebook/biggame/caribou.php

Here's a quote from Dr Matthew Cronin, Ph.D.

"There is growing interest in the possibility of increasing domestic U.S. oil production by beginning exploration in the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge (ANWR). But many Americans are concerned that oil exploration and development will hurt the wildlife, particularly caribou, that make their home in the refuge.

The public's concern is due in large measure to misinformation they've been given about the impact existing oil fields in the Prudhoe Bay region of Alaska have had on the caribou population there. "

The whole article, published in Environment News on May 1st, 2001 can be found here:
http://www.heartland.org/Article.cfm?artId=1123
This article also includes Caribou census data for 1992-2000 which shows an increase in the herds from 23,444 to 27,128 during that time period.

As far as the Exxon Valdez incident goes, that was a tanker ship, not a pipeline. The pipeline is much safer and far more environmentally friendly that a ship is. ANWAR is only 60 miles away from the Prudhoe Bay oil fields and if 800 miles of pipeline has negligible environmental impact then 60 miles more won't hurt either.

I would much rather see more domestic oil than foreign oil, and much more nuclear power than wind, solar, ethanol, and hydrogen. 

I disagree with your opinion on ANWAR but agree with your opinion on bikers and I'm glad you decided to stay in America. People who are educated, informed, and still have the American spirit are the only hope we have going forward. We have no excuse to be ignorant of the issues. We have the internet, alternative media, and the mainstream media to gather our info from. If the country goes to hell it's our fault for not doing anything about it. Truly, a silent people are a people in silent agreement with what's going on. Let's not be silent while the spirits of our forefathers scream in dismay.

[DammitDan]

As far as the Exxon Valdez incident goes, that was a tanker ship, not a pipeline. The pipeline is much safer and far more environmentally friendly that a ship is. ANWAR is only 60 miles away from the Prudhoe Bay oil fields and if 800 miles of pipeline has negligible environmental impact then 60 miles more won't hurt either.

You act as though if we simply run a 60-mile oil pipeline up into the ANWAR, that oil is going to magically start flowing through it.  It's not just the pipeline that would impact wildlife, it's the overall modern human presence.  Quad tractor trailers, bulldozers, mining equipment and oil pumping machinery, they're all going to have to get up there somehow.  It will take roads, airstrips, and towns to support a working operation there.  Are you going to try to tell me that all of this development won't hurt the fragile ecosystem that exists there?

Ah, screw it!  If it means we pay $2 a gallon instead of $3, it's worth it.  At least until we pump the ANWAR dry in 10-15-20 years (after scorching every last bit of tundra in the ANWAR searching for more elusive black gold), and then we're back to square one because there was NO INCENTIVE for auto companies to start developing viable alternative fuel sources.  It's a slippery slope my friend, if Americans demand cheaper gas now by invading one of the last pristine lands untouched by human developmental "progress"...  Where will it stop?  What if they find oil fields under the geysers in Yellowstone?  Or what if they discovered oil shale in the rocks of Mt. Rushmore?  Well the ANWAR is already gone, Yellowstone or Rushmore is just a hop skip and a jump away from the same fate.

[Frankenkit]

If peak oil means more bikes on the road and fewer SUVs, I'd be game....

Seriously, it just bothers me sometimes seeing pickups and massive SUVs in the city when the most these people haul is groceries and a couple kids.  Do you really need an F-350 for that? 

[Terry in Australia]

Er, I got nothing................... 

[Aaron J Williams]

Well Terry, at least you are honest about it! 

So even though the Prudhoe Bay oil field has been in operation since the mid-seventies and has made no environmental impact on the fragile tundra ecosystem, ANWAR will?  Even though over half of America's land mass is "untouched by human progress" you assert that ANWAR is more special than the other 800 million acres of pristine wilderness in the country?  The towns, roads, and infrastructure you are so afraid of are already there at Prudhoe Bay, 60 miles from ANWAR. Quad tractor trailers, bulldozers, mining equipment and oil pumping machinery are no longer required to drill for oil. Now we have portable rigs on rubber tracks which move from site to site leaving nothing behind but tracks in the snow and as far as I know "scorching every last bit of tundra in the ANWAR searching for more elusive black gold" has never been a part of oil drilling.

IF there is drilling in ANWAR it will be strictly monitored by the EPA and DNR. You may not realize it yet but those are the same agencies who can call a wet spot in your backyard a "protected wetland" and stop you from putting up a yard shed anywhere near it. I guarantee they won't go any easier on oil companies drilling in ANWAR.

The bigger picture here is that we cry out for a return to liberty and personal responsibility  as a way to save our republic and on the other hand you applaud the government for forcing car makers to build more efficient cars by artificially inflating the price of oil and fining them for not meeting fuel efficiency standards. The slippery slope is when you advocate government to impose YOUR will on the rest of the population at gunpoint. You may be all right with the government going after "big tobacco" or "big oil" or "big pharmaceutical" but what are you going to do when they go after something you care about?  What are you going to do when extreme environmental policies ruin our economy?  What are you going to do when they mandate that everyone live in urban centers in order to preserve our last bits of wilderness? What are you going to do when they strike down the 2nd amendment and forcibly disarm the public? It can't happen, you say? It already did in New Orleans after Katrina.  What are you going to do when they forcibly take your property and sell it to a developer who will generate more tax revenue for the government? That too has already happened, google "Kelo VS New London" and see for yourself.  I could go on and on but I think my point is made. The lion eats his master last and every action has consequences. If you rely on government then you are a slave.  That is the slippery slope my friend.

[TwoTired]

Are you going to try to tell me that all of this development won't hurt the fragile ecosystem that exists there?

Seems you needed to be told, as you clearly haven't done the research to obtain proper facts on your own.  Don't worry.  If you search a bit, you will find like minded ignorance to support your belief system.

Wait.  Don't I recall statements that the entire world is a fragile ecosystem?  Are you doing your part to reduce CO2 emission by not exhaling?

What if they find oil fields under the geysers in Yellowstone? 

Is this an appeal to your bleeding heart, TV news show educated, cronies for action?  Seems that basic geology has escaped your purview.

HELLO!!! 

Yellowstone, having three large calderas (look it up  ), has geysers because of volcanic activity under ground surface.

Have you already printed up your next rally banner reading; "SAVE THE MAGMA!!!"

Sincerely,
Don Rickles

[DammitDan]

So even though the Prudhoe Bay oil field has been in operation since the mid-seventies and has made no environmental impact on the fragile tundra ecosystem, ANWAR will?

What about the oil spill of 267,000 gallons on the North Slope in March 2006 that was due to corrosion in the pipeline that BP had been warned about but decided to ignore...  And the second leak found in August of 2006?  Those don't impact the environment at all?

http://dwb.adn.com/money/industries/oil/story/9407566p-9320306c.html

Even though over half of America's land mass is "untouched by human progress" you assert that ANWAR is more special than the other 800 million acres of pristine wilderness in the country?  The towns, roads, and infrastructure you are so afraid of are already there at Prudhoe Bay, 60 miles from ANWAR.

The graph you showed earlier:

I don't see anywhere on this table that shows 800 million acres of "pristine wilderness".  Unless you're talking about the forest land and the federal land combined?  But then again it's twisting research...  Federal land can be anything from National Parks (which I would call far from "pristine wilderness") to the land post offices are build on.  And "forest land" is kind of vague, isn't it?  I mean, you could consider the land that Rockin-M works to be forest land, yet he harvests the trees by selective cutting.  Once again, not what I would call "pristine wilderness".

IF there is drilling in ANWAR it will be strictly monitored by the EPA and DNR. You may not realize it yet but those are the same agencies who can call a wet spot in your backyard a "protected wetland" and stop you from putting up a yard shed anywhere near it. I guarantee they won't go any easier on oil companies drilling in ANWAR.

You're right, they would monitor drilling in the ANWAR.  However, aren't they just government agencies, too?  You seem to be very anti-big-government, so why would you expect the EPA or the DNR to do their jobs correctly?  You're flip-flopping on issues.

The bigger picture here is that we cry out for a return to liberty and personal responsibility  as a way to save our republic and on the other hand you applaud the government for forcing car makers to build more efficient cars by artificially inflating the price of oil and fining them for not meeting fuel efficiency standards. The slippery slope is when you advocate government to impose YOUR will on the rest of the population at gunpoint. You may be all right with the government going after "big tobacco" or "big oil" or "big pharmaceutical" but what are you going to do when they go after something you care about?  What are you going to do when extreme environmental policies ruin our economy?  What are you going to do when they mandate that everyone live in urban centers in order to preserve our last bits of wilderness? What are you going to do when they strike down the 2nd amendment and forcibly disarm the public? It can't happen, you say? It already did in New Orleans after Katrina.  What are you going to do when they forcibly take your property and sell it to a developer who will generate more tax revenue for the government? That too has already happened, google "Kelo VS New London" and see for yourself.  I could go on and on but I think my point is made. The lion eats his master last and every action has consequences. If you rely on government then you are a slave.  That is the slippery slope my friend.

I don't remember advocating any of the things you are talking about here...  You seem to be putting words in my mouth. 

I said that if we drill ANWAR and artificially drop the price of oil (that's right, an artificial drop in prices; after it's used up oil prices will just skyrocket again), it will provide no incentive for auto makers to research and produce AFFORDABLE vehicles which use alternative fuel sources.  How is that "applauding the government for forcing car makers to build more efficient cars by artificially inflating the price of oil and fining them for not meeting fuel efficiency standards"?

"what are you going to do when they go after something you care about?  What are you going to do when extreme environmental policies ruin our economy?"

If by "extreme environmental policies" you mean build more parks and save the last wild places in America, I'm all for it.  I'm assuming your alternative would be to build more Wal-Marts and shopping malls to stimulate the economy.  Well I must say I'd rather see trees and wildlife than "low low prices" and asphalt jungles.  But maybe it's just me.

The rest of it seems to be a rant on the government taking over all control (none of which has anything to do with the ANWAR), and you seem to think that I advocate all of this.   

[DammitDan]

Seems you needed to be told, as you clearly haven't done the research to obtain proper facts on your own.  Don't worry.  If you search a bit, you will find like minded ignorance to support your belief system.

Wait.  Don't I recall statements that the entire world is a fragile ecosystem?  Are you doing your part to reduce CO2 emission by not exhaling?

Ah jeeze TT, why ya pickin on me? 

Are you saying that the ANWAR is a robust and vigorous ecosystem that can stand up to the pressures of anything man can throw at it?  I'm sorry for not posting cited research (though no one else seems to be worried about it...)

Conclusions of USGS of effects on herds due to drilling in ANWR:
http://www.absc.usgs.gov/1002/section3part5.htm#Conclusions

*edit - Let me copy/paste the part of the conclusion that correlates with the argument, in case you guys don't want to read that much...

"Petroleum development will most likely result in restricting the location of concentrated calving areas, calving sites, and annual calving grounds. Expected effects that could be observed include reduced survival of calves during June, reduced weight and condition of parturient females and reduced weight of calves in late June, and, potentially, reduced weight and reduced probability of conception for parturient females in the fall."

What if they find oil fields under the geysers in Yellowstone? 

Is this an appeal to your bleeding heart, TV news show educated, cronies for action?  Seems that basic geology has escaped your purview.

HELLO!!! 

Yellowstone, having three large calderas (look it up  ), has geysers because of volcanic activity under ground surface.

Have you already printed up your next rally banner reading; "SAVE THE MAGMA!!!"

I apologize for using a metaphor that was poorly researched.  Not that it has anything to do with my argument, as metaphors don't necessarily need to be logical, but I didn't mean to mislead the forum by saying there was oil under the geysers of Yellowstone.  Please forgive me...

(All the world's a stage, And all the men and women merely players...  THAT DOESN'T MAKE ANY SENSE?!  Oh wait, it was meant as a metaphor.)

[BobbyR]

"SAVE THE MAGMA!!!"

You may have hit upon something there. Magma is pretty hot, so if we start building steam cars you would just drive in an get a small chunk of Magma and go about your business. When it cools they just put the remains in a bin to be recycled into gas grill rocks.

[edbikerii]

Wow, we sure have gotten off the point, huh?  Right back at the bashing, too.

Nice.  

[my78k]

I'll admit that I have nothing of value to add here! I will however add my thanks to all who get so fired up on here! Sure helps make my afternoons at work go by much faster....

Dennis

[gregimotis]

I'll admit that I have nothing of value to add here! I will however add my thanks to all who get so fired up on here! Sure helps make my afternoons at work go by much faster....

Dennis

+1

[Terry in Australia]

Hey I was just thinking about the merits of drilling for oil in the US of A, and as good an idea as it seems, you guys realize that it won't make it any cheaper to buy gas at the pump, now don't ya?

You see OPEC sets the price of oil, and that regulates gas prices, and considering that the US is a member country of OPEC, (same as Australia is, as we've got our own oil too) American consumers won't actually benefit from oil production in Alaska, or Texas, or New York City, for that matter.

My cousin works on an oil rig only 100 miles from my home town, but we pay just as much as if it was coming out of Kuwait. (you reckon we'd get a discount for shipping..............)

You may as well leave your oil in the ground to use after we've sucked the Middle East dry, and have no further need to pander to the folk over there. Cheers, Terry.

[Bob Wessner]

I agree, Terry. Oil is nothing more than a commodity like corn or gold and is traded as such on exchanges. Read that as speculators. Like anything else, they buy/sell based on many factors that will influence an increase in the price, or a decrease, including selling it to the highest bidder. If that's the U.S. consumer, fine, if it's China, that's where it will go.

[BobbyR]

Hey I was just thinking about the merits of drilling for oil in the US of A, and as good an idea as it seems, you guys realize that it won't make it any cheaper to buy gas at the pump, now don't ya?

You see OPEC sets the price of oil, and that regulates gas prices, and considering that the US is a member country of OPEC, (same as Australia is, as we've got our own oil too) American consumers won't actually benefit from oil production in Alaska, or Texas, or New York City, for that matter.

My cousin works on an oil rig only 100 miles from my home town, but we pay just as much as if it was coming out of Kuwait. (you reckon we'd get a discount for shipping..............)

You may as well leave your oil in the ground to use after we've sucked the Middle East dry, and have no further need to pander to the folk over there. Cheers, Terry.

The price of Oil no matter what the source is controlled by the Oil Futures market in NYC. OPEC sets production quotas and guys in a Trading Pit trade them back and forth. It is supply and demand and also a guess at what will effect supplies, storms, insurrection, somebody pumping more than they promised. A friend of mine trades in that pit and he is up at 3am scanning World news trying to figure how it will effect supply. Lot of money in it if you guess right, lose your shirt if you guess wrong. Remeber you are betting on the price 3-6 months down the road. If the US Gov't decides to lower the price they need only cut back buying for  the reserves they have now. Which they will do before the election.

[736cc]

    I think theres so many gas-guzzling SUV's here in America because its a conspiracy to use up all the oil reserves in the mid-east, then we start pumping it out of Alaska like mad and put a big surcharge on exports.