Author Topic: CB750K5 - Need to crank a while before engine fires up. Why?  (Read 1581 times)

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Offline skiri251

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CB750K5 - Need to crank a while before engine fires up. Why?
« on: February 25, 2008, 07:27:34 PM »
CB750K5.

I rebuilt this frame down (sans engine) a year or so ago. It runs okay except..

I park it, petcock off overnight or longer (a week maybe).
The next time I start the engine, I turn on a petcock, full choke, and I need to crank up several times before it fires up. I don't know why. Once it starts up this way, then I can stop the engine and it starts right up.

I think I set up float height properly, sync the carbs, and adjusted idle air screws.
I noticed that gas leaking out of float bowel drain screws, so over a long period gas level in float chamber goes lower.. but opening the petcock shouldn't fill them immediately?

I took the float bowels off today but they look okay.

I also notice that choke does not raise the RPM sufficiently. I need to hold the throttle open a bit otherwise engine dies..


Offline mattcb350f

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Re: CB750K5 - Need to crank a while before engine fires up. Why?
« Reply #1 on: February 25, 2008, 08:55:23 PM »
In my experience, it does take some time for the fuel to reach the bowls after turning the petcock on (if they're dry).  Did you try turning the petcock on and waiting a few minutes before starting to see if it starts any faster?

 Matt.
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Non Honda's: 86 & 87 Husqvarna 400wr's

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Offline skiri251

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Re: CB750K5 - Need to crank a while before engine fires up. Why?
« Reply #2 on: February 26, 2008, 07:41:50 AM »
Yes. I usually wait a few minutes. It seems to get a little better. I will wait half an hour the next time.

Offline Cvillechopper

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Re: CB750K5 - Need to crank a while before engine fires up. Why?
« Reply #3 on: February 26, 2008, 08:05:17 AM »
You should only have to wait about a minute or two to get fuel into the bowls unless your fuel line is restricted.  Have you pulled the petcock to check for debris.  Unless you did a tank re-coat when you did the rebuild, you could easily have a clog in your petcock (you should have seen the one I just pulled) and it would effect the time for the bowls to fill as well as the bike's ability to keep enough fuel when running at higher rpms.  Makes it VERY hard to get her tuned in. 

Just an idea.  Good luck.
It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it.  Aristotle

Offline skiri251

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Re: CB750K5 - Need to crank a while before engine fires up. Why?
« Reply #4 on: February 27, 2008, 08:01:26 AM »
Thanks for the reply.

I coated the tank with POR-15. And I have a brand new stock petcock (I broke old one.)
It once had a old inline fuel filter but I took it out. Now it's short straight line from petcock to the carbs.
It runs okay in high RPMs once it got started.

Maybe related to the choke issue I have? (Full choke doesn't raise the RPM high enough. I need to hold the throttle open a bit otherwise the engine stops when it's cold.)
Can chokes be assembled incorrectly?


Offline TwoTired

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Re: CB750K5 - Need to crank a while before engine fires up. Why?
« Reply #5 on: February 27, 2008, 10:07:25 AM »
I suspect your start-up disappointment is spark related.

Here's a test you can do.  Measure the voltage being delivered while the starter is engaged to the coils when the engine is cold (or when you normally encounter startup issues).   Then compare that reading to when the bike normally starts quickly.

Here's why.

When the bike is cold or has sat for a while, engine cranking resistance is higher due to oil drain back and parts not having a lot of nice warm oil to lubricate sliding parts.  Plus metal dimensions change with temperature, and this can also lead to increased friction.

Another factor is that batteries will self discharge over time.  And, while the charging system rectifier minimizes battery drain, it does still provide a very small load load on the battery during non-operation add to battery drain.  So after sitting for a while you battery may not be at full voltage potential.  What with the huge starter motor draw and being partially depleted the voltage may dip into the marginal spark regime.

Speaking of spark, the spark plugs can get deposits on them to impede easy sparking.  If you run at low throttle settings/ low engine temps, and especially with choke on, soot can build up near the electrodes.  This provides an alternate electrical path for the spark energy and prevent mixture ignition.  Ambient temps play a role in this, as well.  D8 heat range plugs keep the combustion temps down when the engine is hot and running hard.  These are actually too cold for occassional running in cold temps as the cooling fins overcool the engine in such conditions.  A D7 plug would be better suited for a cold temp/infrequent running regime, where the engine doesn't get the plugs to a temperature that will self clean.
Another factor to impede spark could be that you have resistor plugs AND spark plug cap resistors.  You should have one but not both of these.  If there is an R in your spark plug number, then you should NOT have spark plug boot resistors, too.

Dirty plugs and low spark voltage will easily make an engine difficult to start when cold.

Finally, your choke mechanism does not have a mechanical link to the throttle that many other machines do have.  Thus your choke will not increase your idle speed for you.  In fact, the poor atomization that occurs when the engine is cold means that it will idle lower than when the engine is fully warmed up.  You will have to manually open the throttle to keep the engine running, until the temps come up to operating temperature.  This also occurs faster with the D7 heat range plug.

Cheers,
Lloyd... (SOHC4 #11 Original Mail List)
72 500, 74 550, 75 550K, 75 550F, 76 550F, 77 550F X2, 78 550K, 77 750F X2, 78 750F, 79CX500, 85 700SC, GL1100

Those that learn from history are doomed to repeat it by those that don't learn from history.

Offline nippon

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Re: CB750K5 - Need to crank a while before engine fires up. Why?
« Reply #6 on: February 27, 2008, 10:24:46 AM »
It will start much more better after a long parking time (+few days) when you close the petcock 1 mile (test it) before you reach your home, so that the carb bowls are almost empty or totally empty. (only needed for a longer parking time).
Before you start, flow the carbs and pull the joke fully,.....I bet, it will start with the first or second kick.
Try it.

Offline skiri251

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Re: CB750K5 - Need to crank a while before engine fires up. Why?
« Reply #7 on: February 28, 2008, 08:24:39 AM »
Thanks again for the replies.

I will check the voltage. I use stock D8 plugs (no R). I am not sure what PO did to the caps but they look stock.
It's been a while since I looked at plugs the last time. It's real pain to get to 2 & 3 because I have oil cooler and finned tapet covers.
I hook up cheapo battery tender look-alike once a month or so to keep the battery charged but that may not be enough. I will switch to AGM battery next time but the current old style battery still (appears to) work so..

Good to know I didn't screw up choke assembly. I usually start the engine first and then wear helmet and other gear while engine warming up with other bikes. So I cannot do that with the 750.
But I have JRC (Keihin) carb in my BSA A65T and the choke doesn't have no link to the throttle and the engine still idles w/o manually opening the throttle..

I will also try 1 mile petcock off trick.


Offline Cvillechopper

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Re: CB750K5 - Need to crank a while before engine fires up. Why?
« Reply #8 on: February 28, 2008, 08:36:16 AM »
One thing you can do to help with warming up while you get your gear on is to adjust the idle screw up a turn or 2 so it keeps it running without you having to hold it there.  Just remember how far you turned it and turn it back once you're ready to go.  I do it on my 550 all the time.
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Offline skiri251

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Re: CB750K5 - Need to crank a while before engine fires up. Why?
« Reply #9 on: February 28, 2008, 02:04:25 PM »
Idle screw on 750 is very inaccessible. Again maybe because I use finned tapet covers..?
But that is a thought. I should come up with easier to access idle adjustment or something.