Author Topic: velocity stack options?  (Read 4137 times)

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Offline smashedmelon

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velocity stack options?
« on: March 10, 2008, 09:51:20 PM »
Hello,
I just stumbled into a set of v-stacks and Iwould like to put them on my 73 cb750K
 I did a search and realized that one of the bigger obstacles is that the screens on the v-stacks arent enough to keep dust, bugs and stones out. Also read that you can use filter material to protect, as long as it isnt inside the screen where it could itself get sucked in.
So I guess my question is, does anyone know what type of filter material to use and how to secure it? pics (if theyre handy) would be awesome!
 
 
CB750K5, CB750 K3 parts bike, CB750K3 baby-cakes

fuzzybutt

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Re: velocity stack options?
« Reply #1 on: March 10, 2008, 10:01:43 PM »
there isnt enough surface area at the opening of the stack for a filter, it would badly choke your motor.

Offline 754

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Re: velocity stack options?
« Reply #2 on: March 10, 2008, 10:20:12 PM »
+1.. dont ask me how I know..

 you may be able to run Uni filters over the end but it would look funny.


 I can say though my motor I ran without cleaners even on a dirt oval lasted about 2wice as long as anyone thought it would.. depends where you ride.
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Offline smashedmelon

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Re: velocity stack options?
« Reply #3 on: March 10, 2008, 10:39:22 PM »
thanks for the replies,
Sounds like I should forget about the filter material...sorry for this next dumb question, but Im wondering I still have a 4-4 exhaust and if I put the stacks on will I need to make any carb adjustments? Is there any point of having stacks on with an original exhaust? It'll be a while before I get the 4-1...
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Offline 754

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Re: velocity stack options?
« Reply #4 on: March 10, 2008, 10:55:11 PM »
If you want to try stack without spending, pull the black ones out of your airbox.
Maker of the WELDLESS 750 Frame Kit
dodogas99@gmail.com
Kelowna B.C.       Canada

My next bike will be a ..ANFOB.....

It's All part of the ADVENTURE...

73 836cc.. Green, had it for 3 decades!!
Lost quite a few CB 750's along the way

Online Sam Green Racing

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Re: velocity stack options?
« Reply #5 on: March 10, 2008, 11:12:55 PM »
thanks for the replies,
Sounds like I should forget about the filter material...sorry for this next dumb question, but Im wondering I still have a 4-4 exhaust and if I put the stacks on will I need to make any carb adjustments? Is there any point of having stacks on with an original exhaust? It'll be a while before I get the 4-1...

It's hardly worth doing one without the other. If you can't get rid of the gases  efficiently, its not worth trying to get more in.
A good free flowing carb and exhaust system coupled to a decent ignition system can be worth up to 7bhp if set up correctly.
The bigest restriction in your motor is the cylinder heads intake and valve system. A good head job and the above will get you buzzing.
All you need then is a cam and big pistons and you're racing. ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

Sam.  ;)
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Offline smashedmelon

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Re: velocity stack options?
« Reply #6 on: March 11, 2008, 07:23:44 PM »
thanks Sam, I now realize that I cant just slap on a set of stacks and expect better performance.  So if Im getting this right, I need to get myself that 4-1, adjust the carbs and upgrade my ignition? What order should I tackle this in?
« Last Edit: March 11, 2008, 07:26:46 PM by smashedmelon »
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Online Sam Green Racing

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Re: velocity stack options?
« Reply #7 on: March 11, 2008, 08:33:55 PM »
The electronic ignition is not 100% necessary but it will give you a better spark and you can forget all the messing about setting points and ignition timing. Once it's set that is it.
Then get your exhaust fitted then tune your carbs to the pipe.
When we first started to race the CR it was a stock motor with just those 3 mods and they yielded 7bhp.

Sam. ;)
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Offline smashedmelon

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Re: velocity stack options?
« Reply #8 on: March 11, 2008, 10:01:01 PM »
sweet, thanks again... I think I finally have some direction. I am looking at the yamiya yosh knock offs, is this an example of a free flowing exhaust, or would there need to be some modification ie. removal of baffles? Do any members have these pipes yet?
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lentobensa

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Re: velocity stack options?
« Reply #9 on: March 12, 2008, 02:56:51 AM »

A good head job and the above will get you buzzing.



yup second that. Nothing beats a good head job.

Offline KeithB

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Re: velocity stack options?
« Reply #10 on: March 12, 2008, 04:19:25 AM »
While the stacks, when carbs and exhaust are tuned, will give a bit more performance, you have to know that you are going to suck in dirt and crap that will cause faster wear of engine parts.
For the racing people, this isn't a problem as they might re-build engines quite often.
For street use, it's worth considering the single "pod"filters and keep your engine working longer.
just my $.02
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Offline eurban

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Re: velocity stack options?
« Reply #11 on: March 12, 2008, 04:59:56 AM »
While the stacks, when carbs and exhaust are tuned, will give a bit more performance, you have to know that you are going to suck in dirt and crap that will cause faster wear of engine parts.
For the racing people, this isn't a problem as they might re-build engines quite often.
For street use, it's worth considering the single "pod"filters and keep your engine working longer.
just my $.02

Right, and guess where that extra performance will be?  At the highest rev ranges.  Power in the lower range may actually be softened. How much time are you going to be driving a 7K +? How often are you willing to rebuild your engine?  Stacks are good for racers.  Stacks are good for style mavens who care most that their bike looks like a racer.  Stacks are a poor choice for the street.

Offline Geeto67

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Re: velocity stack options?
« Reply #12 on: March 12, 2008, 07:16:40 AM »
With my stacks I used a rubber grommet from an old circycle  kit for putting foam on a v-stack. The old foam was roached so I bought a block of uni-foam and cut my own filters to fit the grommet. Works fine on my 550.

The brass screns that are solf for most v-stacks will keep stones and bugs out no problem - it is just the dust you have to worry about (espcially if you live in a dusty climate).
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Offline JZEROE

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Re: velocity stack options?
« Reply #13 on: March 12, 2008, 08:51:08 AM »
I'm using foam unifilters on my 550 with a jet job, and that made a nice difference, eliminating the 4.5k flat spot and boosting the love in the top part of the tach. Not much difference down low, but it sounds better. To kick in the low end I dropped a tooth on front sprocket and now the thing feels really well balanced... when it's not dieing on the side of the road because of my @#$%ing charging system.
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Offline hahnda

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Re: velocity stack options?
« Reply #14 on: March 12, 2008, 09:40:40 AM »
Its a bit hard to see but the stacks on my bike use a thin foam over screen. Don't know where it came from, it had them when I got it.

Kevin
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Offline TwoTired

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Re: velocity stack options?
« Reply #15 on: March 12, 2008, 10:39:50 AM »
While the stacks, when carbs and exhaust are tuned, will give a bit more performance, you have to know that you are going to suck in dirt and crap that will cause faster wear of engine parts.
For the racing people, this isn't a problem as they might re-build engines quite often.
For street use, it's worth considering the single "pod"filters and keep your engine working longer.
just my $.02

Right, and guess where that extra performance will be?  At the highest rev ranges.  Power in the lower range may actually be softened. How much time are you going to be driving a 7K +? How often are you willing to rebuild your engine?  Stacks are good for racers.  Stacks are good for style mavens who care most that their bike looks like a racer.  Stacks are a poor choice for the street.

+1

Also, putting a filter at the Vstack entrance, mostly negates any benefit it may have provided at high RPM.  The narrowing diameter serves to slightly compress air, giving more oxygen for combustion.  But, it only works in non-turbulent air flow.  An entry filter adds so much turbulence, that the beneficial effect is greatly compromised.
Stacks with entry filters is a banner touting "style maven" status.

Cheers,

Lloyd... (SOHC4 #11 Original Mail List)
72 500, 74 550, 75 550K, 75 550F, 76 550F, 77 550F X2, 78 550K, 77 750F X2, 78 750F, 79CX500, 85 700SC, GL1100

Those that learn from history are doomed to repeat it by those that don't learn from history.

Offline mystic_1

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Re: velocity stack options?
« Reply #16 on: March 12, 2008, 10:45:44 AM »
Correct me if I'm wrong, but the stock airbox tubes are, in essence, rubber velocity stacks which are surrounded by the airbox.  In this scenario, you'd get some performance boost from the compression effect of the stacks, because they're drawing less-turbulent, prefiltered air, yes?

So adding plain velocity stacks might actually reduce performance from stock?


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Offline TwoTired

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Re: velocity stack options?
« Reply #17 on: March 12, 2008, 11:22:35 AM »
Correct me if I'm wrong, but the stock airbox tubes are, in essence, rubber velocity stacks which are surrounded by the airbox.  In this scenario, you'd get some performance boost from the compression effect of the stacks, because they're drawing less-turbulent, prefiltered air, yes?

So adding plain velocity stacks might actually reduce performance from stock?

The small bell of the stock rubber stack, is unlikely to provide much in the way of air compression, except at extremely high velocities.  They do draw air from a plenum of pre-filtered air which is good.  The little rubber stack has a bell mouth primarily to keep the inlet flow laminar, or all the air molecules traveling parallel to the runner sides.  Lacking this, a sharp corner on the inlet produces turbulence.  The airflow then takes on the shape of several curled fingers downstream from the obstruction/disturber, and this then produces alternating high and low pressures on the runner sidewalls.  This not only creates air drag, but these fingers then reach into the carb throat where they interfere with the fuel flow entering the carb throat.  These "fingers" of turbulent air change length/size as the velocity increases. So, at specific modal velocities these high/low pressure changes reduce fuel flow or increase fuel flow entering the carb, making precise mixture adjustments problematic.  For example, you could have a rich mixture at 4K RPM, a perfect mixture at 4.5K RPM, a lean mixture 5K RPM, then perfect again at 5.5 K RPM, rich again at 6K, perfect at 6.5K, etc., as the alternating fingers extend into the intake runner at varying lengths with the velocity changes. 
Anyway, those rubber bell shaped stack are there primarily to prevent this, rather than any air compression/oxygen boosting effect.  It's what contributes to the these bikes being so "streetable".

This is one of the reasons why I snicker when people tout "pod filters" without even noticing the sharp step they just put at the mouth of the air inlet, adding turbulence.  Then to overcome the modal turbulence issues they over jet the carbs to compensate for the fuel flow irregularities.  Many are even happier that their engine now uses more fuel than it should, because to them, more fuel must mean "more power".  And, what style maven would believe that the stock system works better? ;D ;D

Cheers,

Lloyd... (SOHC4 #11 Original Mail List)
72 500, 74 550, 75 550K, 75 550F, 76 550F, 77 550F X2, 78 550K, 77 750F X2, 78 750F, 79CX500, 85 700SC, GL1100

Those that learn from history are doomed to repeat it by those that don't learn from history.

Offline mystic_1

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Re: velocity stack options?
« Reply #18 on: March 12, 2008, 11:31:46 AM »
Woah, great explanation, I can visualize that perfectly and it jibes well with what little else I know about aerodynamics.

What would it cost to get you to sit in my living room and spew this kind of info to me on a regular basis?  lol!

Cheers

mystic_1
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Offline eurban

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Re: velocity stack options?
« Reply #19 on: March 12, 2008, 03:09:38 PM »
TT-  Glad you like the "style maven" term.  It was used in a mountain bike comparison review that I read a good number of years ago.  According to the mag, one bike in particular was the best choice for style mavens.  Guess which bike I bought? ;D  Oh and I completely admit that my project bike has pod filters and I have them on there for looks.  At least they do a bit better job at filtering the incoming air than stacks . . .

Offline TwoTired

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Re: velocity stack options?
« Reply #20 on: March 12, 2008, 04:43:12 PM »
TT-  Glad you like the "style maven" term.  It was used in a mountain bike comparison review that I read a good number of years ago.  According to the mag, one bike in particular was the best choice for style mavens.  Guess which bike I bought? ;D  Oh and I completely admit that my project bike has pod filters and I have them on there for looks.  At least they do a bit better job at filtering the incoming air than stacks . . .

Yes, that's an apt moniker.  I figured "style maven" was in the public domain and could be used freely.   ;D

For the record, I don't really mind pod filters... on someone else's bike!  ;D 

Really, since my race days are over, and I want a good street bike, I prefer the beaucoup engineers hour results of the stock filtration system, much more than the afterthought pod filter add-ons.  But, you are right some filtration is better than none.

 Oh, I don't use those little Christmas tree air fresheners in my car, or fuzzy dice from the mirror, either. ;D

Cheers,

Lloyd... (SOHC4 #11 Original Mail List)
72 500, 74 550, 75 550K, 75 550F, 76 550F, 77 550F X2, 78 550K, 77 750F X2, 78 750F, 79CX500, 85 700SC, GL1100

Those that learn from history are doomed to repeat it by those that don't learn from history.