Topic: Phaedrus: CB750 RestoMod - Update: 09/23/21 w/ new video

[MCRider]

can you have new parts machined to solve this problem??

Group buy could hold the price down.

~Joe

You have 2 issues (at least) One is the shift fork becomes bent from operator cramming it into 2nd gear. When lifting up on the shifter the drum rotates, moving the fork the dogs of which are in the groove of the gear, and slides the gear along the shaft to engage its dogs sideways into its adjacent gear. If the sideways engagement isn't positive enough, the gear pops out not fdar enough to re-engage first gear, and so its a false neutral. usually followed by a pretty mean over-rev condition.

Do that enough and the dogs on gears get worn, so you have the 2 conditions.

A sub-condition to #1 is that with the fork bent it is laying in the groove of the gear slightly cocked and will enlarge the groove of the gear. As well as the dogs on the end of the fork.

Each of these conditions, the bent fork, worn dogs, and worn groove are in the several thousandths range. Virtually imperceptible to the human eye. What is sometimes visible is a worn arc on the fork dogs, a worn taper on the gear dogs, and a wear mark inside the groove of the gear.

When i fixed mine the OEM parts were still available, no brainer. Buy new for less than $250 throw them in and get going.

Now that we have to trust used parts, its going to get trickier. Still low mileage stock trans are available on eBay and undercutting them would fix it. A place like APE could easily tell if the parts were still within service limits.

A group buy from Yamiya is a good idea, but I wouldn't want to be the one trying to arrange it. High dollar and who's going to buy unless they really need to?

To the question on machining, several here have commented on this. The parts don't lend themselves to reconditioning. Maybe someday. The work, cryo, undercutting, etc,  needs to be done before they are worn.

[Joksa]

Ah, I see. Thanks!
I've done some work with the C2-C5 pair, which has always been the leakest link in these gearboxes. Usually, new (superior quality) bearings will stop the need for other shims, at least in my experience.

I re-read the article. Actually what the guy did was, he shimmed only C-2 and C-3 gears outwards and M-4 and M-5 gears inwards (I am not sure why) and machined the tabs/dogs square again (took off 0.25mm, so the gain was 0.75mm after re-shimming).

[MCRider]

A teaser to tomorrow's update: (yes I'm over the mother of all colds and ready to proceed)

I was with an old buddy today, not doing too well, problems with bones/spine etc. But he wanted to see the Phaedrus thread. So we did so. Along the way, he mentions "I have a CB750 speedo at home." Disbelieving I say "oh really, new?" He says "Yes".

(Now he's had his hands in MCs since childhood (63 now) and like many of us has accumulated boxes of parts.) So I proceed, "Is it a K1?" (Wht's the chance?) He knows the K number differences in general but couldn't remember what the speedo was. Said he'd check.

I want K1 instruments as they have the idjut lights in the instruments and not out taking up space elsewhere on the "dash". The pre-K1 instruments have internal lights as well but the lens stands proud of the instrument, I don't like the look. Only the K1 will do.

He calls back. Yup its the K1, brand new, and its mine! Yahoo! Now I'll give him something for it, but its basically free. Now to score a Speedo...


PS: This guy worked in a Suzuki Shop back in the day. The shop was mismanaged and Suzuki forced him to close, but the owner and my friend parted good friends. Suzuki did not want the parts back, the shop was not insolvent, just ran afoul of Suzuki politics, They paid the owner to close and go away. He gave my friend a large part of the parts inventory, about 1/2 garage stall of brand new late 60s to mid 70s Suzuki parts. I never knew!  We're going to eBay them off this summer. He's not computer literate, so we'll do it together and split it. May be a boost to my treasury and some lift for his situation as well.

[Ecosse]

great update! call me simple but i love stories like this not to mention it's good to hear you're past the worst of it as well.

best regards to your friend. bless his heart for contributing to "the cause".

good luck in your ebay venture too.  

[traveler]

hmmm....water buffalo parts.....

~Joe

[MCRider]

hmmm....water buffalo parts.....

~Joe

Thanks Ecosse. Actually had a terrible night, coughed all night. But marching on.  Here's hoping to score a decent speedo.

Joe: Hadn't thought of the water buffalo, could be a bonanza, lets hope.

[754]

Yes K1 speeos/tach rules.. the best of the bunch.. no platic & inside lights..

 Check your PM.. not instrument related..

[MCRider]

man what a cold. Hammered it with zinc, vitamin c of various types, sleep, liquids, robitussin, etc, etc,. Reminds me of the Beverly Hillbillies episode where Grannie said she had a cure for the common cold. Jethro was showing symptoms. The banker was seeing $$ signs. Grannie would have some backwoods remedy and they'd get rich. So by the end of the episode, Granny spoons outher concoction to Jethro, tells him to get in bed, drink plenty of fluids and in 2 weeks or so he'd be cured.

So the first thing I had to do was get the care package together for HondaMan I promised. What with buying new switchgear, I don't need any of those I've collected. Two lefts and two rights. One of the rights has extended wires for apehangers. I'll never use it. HM says he can fix the ones I screwed up so more power to him.

I put chrome allen head hardware on my new switches. Had to shorten some of them.


travelor asked for some full bike pics. Don't know if he realizes I'm not that far along yet. But here's the closest thing.



For my re-engineered rt frt motormounts, I needed some 10x1.25 bolts. Come to find out the bolts that hold the calipers together are rightsize, but not threaded all the way up. Perusing Yamiya, they have polished SS caliper bolts that are threaded all the way. Look like chrome.

Had to cut them down shorter and file a flat spot in one of the washers. Final detail.


Wifer came out to show me the quilt she made.

754 is making rear brake adjuster nuts with a round knurled head rather than a hex, so its hand adjustable. I told him I'd like one wif it had the extra tapered tail detail like this one.

Someone else needed the part number of the fork seal dust cover used on ealry forks. Here's both the harley part and the Honda part. If you'll notice the Harley part is "made in Japan" and I thiink is an identical part.

Fially I'm ready to thread the switches into the bars and finish the front end. Likely 2 weeks proposition.

[HondaMan]

Nice quilt! Sweet wife!
Those switches will be a gold mine for a scrounger like me! 

[wannabridin]

if that cough comes back, take a shot of delsym, best stuff on the market by far!  cures the cough for 12 hours from the "inside" instead of trying to cover it up!  just my $.02, plus it'll help you get your rest so you can progress with the thread faster!!!

everything looks good, i like the polished SS bolts, very nice touch!  i might have to give mine a bit of a polish for all over the bike!

[MCRider]

if that cough comes back, take a shot of delsym, best stuff on the market by far!  cures the cough for 12 hours from the "inside" instead of trying to cover it up!  just my $.02, plus it'll help you get your rest so you can progress with the thread faster!!!

everything looks good, i like the polished SS bolts, very nice touch!  i might have to give mine a bit of a polish for all over the bike!

I'll try the delsym. I'll try anything.

I was surprised the bolts were that shiny. I'll have to buy two more pair now for their intended use on my calipers. can't put those nasty stockers on now that i know.

[mystic_1]

By the by, the caliper bolts also work nicely in the lower triple tree pinch clamps.  Can't tell from the latest pics if you've already got that covered though

mystic_1

[MCRider]

By the by, the caliper bolts also work nicely in the lower triple tree pinch clamps.  Can't tell from the latest pics if you've already got that covered though

mystic_1

I have plain old hex heads (they are chrome tho) and was thinking about switching them out. But ACE only had chrome allens in 10x1.00 not 1.25.

Thanks for that, gotta have em.

[754]

Gardner Wescott Livonia MI

 Has Chrome allen heads, in ;
 chromed with knurls

 chromed with knurls polished off

  Stainless poloshed & maybe tapered head..


 Lots of metric sizes and lengths

 I think button heads would be cool on the switches or calipers or trees. Also counterbored caliper so the allen head fits inside with head flush would be cool..

 Gardner Wescott probably only sells thru dealer , but they were great to deal with, and the allen wrenches always fit their chromed goodies.. try chroming one and seeing how it fits 

[traveler]

Looks great!

Is the tank going to be the same gold?

yeah....I htought you already had the engine in.....I thought the bike was 90% done!

~Joe

[MCRider]

Looks great!

Is the tank going to be the same gold?

yeah....I htought you already had the engine in.....I thought the bike was 90% done!

~Joe

The "tins" are to be some sort of heavy metal flake, 1970s disco era, plum crazy purple. Gold and Orange pin stripes. Wolf's head dripping blood from its teeth, in gold leaf with engine turnings and devil's eyes.  "Phaedrus" down each side in cursive.

I had a dummied up engine in the bike long before the gold, to mock up the exhaust pipe and weld tabs on the frame.

As far as "% done" yeah well...

Many sub-assemblies are done. The head is ported, assembled with SS valves, springs, ti retainers, etc. WebCam,  The cylinders are bored to 888cc, Arias forged pistons, 10.25 to 1 CR; The crank is done as an APE UltraRacing crank with Crower rods; Trans is done by APE, undercut, cryo treated, new bearings; All the cases are painted silver with black cylinders. All the engine sidecovers are polished. Cam cover reinforced with cam tower bosses.

Assembly is sorely behind schedule.   

[MCRider]

Gardner Wescott Livonia MI

 Has Chrome allen heads, in ;
 chromed with knurls

 chromed with knurls polished off

  Stainless poloshed & maybe tapered head..


 Lots of metric sizes and lengths

 I think button heads would be cool on the switches or calipers or trees. Also counterbored caliper so the allen head fits inside with head flush would be cool..

 Gardner Wescott probably only sells thru dealer , but they were great to deal with, and the allen wrenches always fit their chromed goodies.. try chroming one and seeing how it fits 

I'm about done with hardware. Its been fun to just buy it piecemeal from the ACE hardware, a little each Sunday. They expect me to come in.

After its rolling I may buy other stuff and upgrade. Buttonheads may be nicer for the switchgear, I may make that change, if ACE has them, I think they do.

[wannabridin]

Looks great!

Is the tank going to be the same gold?

yeah....I htought you already had the engine in.....I thought the bike was 90% done!

~Joe

The "tins" are to be some sort of heavy metal flake, 1970s disco era, plum crazy purple. Gold and Orange pin stripes. Wolf's head dripping blood from its teeth, in gold leaf with engine turnings and devil's eyes.  "Phaedrus" down each side in cursive.

I had a dummied up engine in the bike long before the gold, to mock up the exhaust pipe and weld tabs on the frame.

As far as "% done" yeah well...

Many sub-assemblies are done. The head is ported, assembled with SS valves, springs, ti retainers, etc. WebCam,  The cylinders are bored to 888cc, Arias forged pistons, 10.25 to 1 CR; The crank is done as an APE UltraRacing crank with Crower rods; Trans is done by APE, undercut, cryo treated, new bearings; All the cases are painted silver with black cylinders. All the engine sidecovers are polished. Cam cover reinforced with cam tower bosses.

Assembly is sorely behind schedule.   

awesome synopsis Ron!!!  nice to see a quick bullet list of the main items!!!  go get that delsym so we can see more progress!!! :-D  and get those old zuk parts on ebay so you can have more money for parts!!!

question for you or anyone:  where can i find a list of all thread sizes and pitches for required hardware for a majority of the threads on the bike?  also, a list of the hole sizes??  this would greatly help out anyone who wants a quick one-shot-stop trip to ace, McMaster Carr, etc...  big question i know, but you'd think there'd be one complete excel file or something somewhere....

[MCRider]

Thanks. It helps to list it out sometimes to remind myself it may not be long from here.

bolts/screws: I actually did an excel about 10 years ago. I went thru the parts manual, I must have it somewhere.

I've changed the size on so many of mine its worthless. If I find it I'll out it up.

I bot SS allen kits from Jim Spillane here years ago, on the old website/forum/list. He's in the FAQs 'where to buy".
There's not that much misc hardware that it can't be done piecemeal.

I think "INOX" in GB I think actually has stock size kits made up incl the hex bolts.

[MCRider]

So, made some headway. Weather was mild, my cold is manageable, my buddy showed up. We're trying to get all the wired bits onto the bike to see if they will all stuff into the custom chrome headlight shell. That shell is sold for CB750s so I'm hoping, but it doesn't seem to have a lot of room. If they won't fit I'll be scrambling for an alternative. I have 2 plastic shells as a very last resort.

So the old "euro touring" bars are retrieved, polished up and examined. The rt side wire slot has already been enlarged and there are 2 oversized locating holes. So many years ago must have been experimenting. This time around I'm fitting a dual cable 1/4 turn quick throttle. The switch gear clamps around it. But to keep the grip from hanging off the rt side, out of balance with the left, the switch gear must slide inboard the width of the quick throttle.

Helps to tape up the loose ends of the switch wires, maybe wrap some safety wire around them to pull on. I also slather them up with ArmorAll to make them slickery. But these bars are so stratight to begin with there isn't much resistnce to getting them on.




The pipe throttle won't quite fit into the cutout on the quick throttle wheel.

Some surgery with the Dremel fixed that.

Bars are wired. Grip color: blue, purple, or grey?  

I've got my old MC, and one from a VFR. Both are pretty nasty, but OK for mock up. The VFR takes up a lot less room on the handlebar. It or something like it will be used.

The risers are black, unknown to my untrained eyes if its paint or anodize. Brushed on somepaint remover.


Turns out to be paint.

Drug out smy nasty old K2 instruments for mock up. They have wires too to tuck in the shell.  Got the bars and instruments mounted up.


In the last picture you can see how far a stock MC (though that MC is actually off of some non-CB750 model) approaches the instrument. I remember that with clubmans it actually hit the tach I think. The VFR style will solve that.

That's all for today.

Recent procurements: As posted a buddy had a NOS CB750 K1 he is GIVING me! The only problem with that is now trying to find a K1 Speedo. Yamiya makes K1 faces. I could buy them and use a K2 speedo, push comes to shove. It won't have functional idjut lites. The tach will and i could get by with 2. By ideally, I'll find a good K1 speedo.

Next will be actually stuffing the wires in the shell, and building the front wheel.

PS: Different look at gold instrument band clamps. Don't know if I like them. Bot some NOS chrome ones on ebay for $24. I have options.

[Zaipai]

I guess I would vote for the gray/silver grips.. Tho maybe when its all done the blue could look sharp...

.: Scott :.

[Frankenkit]

not black to match the black speedo/tach pods and carry the look across the cockpit of the bike?   

in that case, I'd wait to see the tank and side covers on it before making a decision.

[MCRider]

Thanks zaipai and Kit. I was kinda joking but then again... 

The gray ones get dirty easy from experience, but clean easily. I like them.

Blue doesn't really go.

Purple may match the bodycolor.

Black is the universal fall back.

So many questions... sigh.   

I think i saw some gold ones on a dirt bike sight...

[wannabridin]

i've seen some gold flake looking ones!!      looked like the shiny vinyl of old diner bar stools, and it was really comfy!!  i'll have to see if i can scrounge up that guys website.... 

[Ecosse]

thank god i didn't fall for another one of your jokes ron. 

but then maybe a bulldog hood ornament and and purple grips go together?

seriously, the purple may work if your tins get a similar livery as the damaged p 1 colors.

gold flake grips? hmmm...