Topic: does walmart or autozone any chains carry oil filters for cb's

[gar]

A filter from the Honda dealer only costs ~$5.  They're always in stock (filter fits multiple bikes), they come with new seals... and the filter housing has cooling fins on it too.  I wouldn't switch.  (I'm cheap too... too much for the spin-on adapter)

[eldar]

Well lets see, you are going to do a test, how is that going to be more accurate? I mean sawing a can in half is not the most scientific. Even when pulled apart, there will be damage done somewhere on the filters.

As for other products, if engines start to die from filter failure, with the cost of repair, you can bet it would have happened. There would have been some news on it. So you look at only filter price, I look at the results of the filter damage. Lawsuit for sure if it was happening.

Oh the center oring which gets squashed also? The ring which gets installed tightly on the filter bolt? Yeah I fail to see how that will cause an issue when it gets squashed into its space.

I had a honda that died in record time. Clearly EVERY manufacturer can have a bad product. NO manufacturer has a 100% record. My heating control is a honeywell. Never a problem.
Honda does not outsource? Really? So every component is made by them? Even points that have a different name on them? Oh wait, that is outsourced. So clearly THEY DO outsource.

Also, just cause it is thinner, that automatically means it is cheaper? Sorry but even that does not hold up. You could 2 exhaust pipes with different weights and it is very common that the lighter one is as good and sometimes better than the heavier one. So weight means NOTHING.

Again, that guy still cause damage to the filters as he took them apart thus negating his findings as neither filter will truly show its quality once it has been damaged. Something WILL get damaged as the filters need to be pulled apart against the glue. Need proof? Glue a piece of paper and then try to open it. Paper rips doesnt it. Even if it is cardboard.

As for old timers, sorry but some are good but most are only passable and thats it. Many of them get their "knowledge" from others which may also be wrong. So if their source is wrong, then they will be wrong even though they might sound right.
Of course, call my skills into question all you want. My bike is safe and it runs good. What more is needed?

Yes not every filter fails but again, not every filter is 100%. So even the best filter in the world can die even YOUR favorite filter. Besides, how do YOU know your filter is not substandard? Cause some guy said it was good or because it has worked for you?

So you have gathered evidence? How? You show one lousy site and quote sayings from other mechanics. I can do the same thing. If you searched back on this very subject, you would see that. You would also see that others ON THIS SITE have had good luck with fram. I suppose, just like me, their skills stink though right?

So you have a big, bad degree. wow you are an expert. How do you KNOW you yourself are not falling for the same thing you accuse me of. I will have to call you an a$$hat though for your comment. Nice way to sidestep by using a republican style attack. Do you write for mccain? I PERSONALLY know a woman with a degree in psychology, she is a counselor in a school yet cant control her kids for crap. Clearly a degree does NOT make you an expert. It also does not make you qualified to say I am recommending an inferior product as you have NO factual proof it is inferior. Try again there.

Also, you got your parting line wrong  It is  "fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me."  As for those sites, like I said, they are not experts and how do we know that they are NOT biased? Did we personally watch their tests? No we did not.
As for card board, how does it replace rubber? I do not see cardboard orings? I do not see a cardboard case. I do not see a cardboard inner cap which is used to screw onto the mount. Clearly the main component that cardboard is used for is filtering.

You want to use your filter, fine. I am not saying you cant. I AM saying that you may be wrong on the fram filters and you can believe what you want but until there is REAL proof from real unbiased sources, not from a family website, you cannot claim a fram sucks, especially when others here stand by them. Like I said, this was hashed before. Do a search.
As one other point, have you had a fram filter fail on your own personal car or truck or bike?
A failure that was caused as a direct failure if the filter, not something just oil related.
Like I said, I have not and I have never seen one fail on any friends or families vehicle. I have only heard the claim on the internet and from 1 mechanic who was suspect anyways.

You never have said what filter you like. Post up so everyone else knows. I do not care, I am done here on this thread as regardless of who is right, we are both retards for arguing on the internet.

At least I can leave this argument here if you can. Pretty stupid to carry it to other topics.

Just so you know, I am not holding any grudge here.

[MoTo-BunnY]

Well lets see, you are going to do a test, how is that going to be more accurate? I mean sawing a can in half is not the most scientific. Even when pulled apart, there will be damage done somewhere on the filters.  ((( I was thinking weight of the components (especially the paper and the shell) to determine thickness of product (and thus, strength or filtration capability). That and maybe filtration ability - maybe mix some iron filings and grit with oil and see how much of it is filtered out by the respective filter.  Also, yes *duh* there will be damage by cutting it apart - I am saying what ARE the components inside? cardboard vs. steel or rubber? etc.))))

As for other products, if engines start to die from filter failure, with the cost of repair, you can bet it would have happened. There would have been some news on it. So you look at only filter price, I look at the results of the filter damage. Lawsuit for sure if it was happening. (((again, I don't think so - it would be VERY difficult for anyone to pick up on the fact the filter failed, to begin with, as your shiite is seized! Typically, it would probably be expected to be other issues. Also, as I have repeated stated, I am sure very few filters of ANY type have 'failed', outright. I am just stating they don't filter as well as other brands. I.e. engine longevity issues brought on by micro abrasion, wear, etc. by grit in the oil.))))

Oh the center oring which gets squashed also? The ring which gets installed tightly on the filter bolt? Yeah I fail to see how that will cause an issue when it gets squashed into its space.  (((even if that rubber is clearly of lesser quality and the process used to form them, isn't as precise and clearly made as other makes?)))

I had a honda that died in record time. Clearly EVERY manufacturer can have a bad product. NO manufacturer has a 100% record. My heating control is a honeywell. Never a problem.  (((sure - that is obvious, I stated that in the 'malaise' era Chevrolet Vega vs. something like a '70 Chevelle SS - WHOLE different world)))
Honda does not outsource? Really? So every component is made by them? Even points that have a different name on them? Oh wait, that is outsourced. So clearly THEY DO outsource.  ((( I didn't say they don't outsource, per se, (their oil filter is an Emgo, I believe) I am saying they don't sell just their name to other, completely different manufacturers, so that they can produce products to take advantage of the old name, quality cred or what not (i.e. the aforementioned Honeywell heater and fan - both made in China, clearly inferior quality compared to like an old-school Honeywell mainframe components or climate control systems. Are there Honda brand space heaters, fans, chincy electrical stuff you find cheap in discount stores? Ummm. . . don't think so. Honda doesn't dilute its brand like that. )))

Also, just cause it is thinner, that automatically means it is cheaper? (((with something as basic as filter paper and raw steel, hell yes - or is Fram now supposedly offering a molybenum-chrome alloy body or something, so that they can make it thinner, lighter, for cheaper? Or is their filter paper technology SO advanced, that it too can be thinner and lighter yet still filter al much or more than a thicker filter? ya. . . right ))))) Sorry but even that does not hold up. You could 2 exhaust pipes with different weights and it is very common that the lighter one is as good and sometimes better than the heavier one. So weight means NOTHING. (((that means nothing - totally unfair comparison. . .I am talking about basic steel and paper - NOT advanced metal alloys or metallurgy concepts that I highly doubt are figured into oil filter production!)))

Again, that guy still cause damage to the filters as he took them apart thus negating his findings as neither filter will truly show its quality once it has been damaged. Something WILL get damaged as the filters need to be pulled apart against the glue. Need proof? Glue a piece of paper and then try to open it. Paper rips doesnt it. Even if it is cardboard.  (((again, *duh* but the fact remains if it is clearly obvious that there are substandard components inside - doesn't matter if its cut in half or not - cardboard is still cardboard. With my previously mentioned test, take the filter paper out, pour the oil-iron filings-grit mixture through it. How much of it is filtered out? Seems pretty rock solid of a test.  . . .)))

As for old timers, sorry but some are good but most are only passable and thats it. Many of them get their "knowledge" from others which may also be wrong. So if their source is wrong, then they will be wrong even though they might sound right. (((I stated that - I have heard plenty of BS. I have also talked to mechanics that worked for 30+ years. It seems they would have some wisdom there? (and some BS - same as anyones 'war stories'. It all depends on context, their experience, other things they told me, the BS factor (do they routinely tell OTHER tall tales) etc etc.)))
Of course, call my skills into question all you want. My bike is safe and it runs good. What more is needed?  (((anecdotal experience is sketchy, at best, with something full of so many variables as "my bike runs and always has" sure - but does it have that bit more of wear deep inside, due to a lesser oil filter, that you will never know about because it didn't fail, outright? too many variables to test for, in that environment - probably why that style test is rarely done or reported and why people resort to just taking them apart and seeing what's inside, instead. At least I am suggesting running the oil-grit solution through the filter paper test!)))

Yes not every filter fails but again, not every filter is 100%. So even the best filter in the world can die even YOUR favorite filter. Besides, how do YOU know your filter is not substandard? Cause some guy said it was good or because it has worked for you?  (((because I looked at it - side by side, to the Fram and to the Honda OEM. Again, the quality is OBVIOUS - better metal seams, better rubber gasket, heftier feel/weight, let alone that the Honda and Wix also include both O-rings and all for a price like only $3-4 more?)))

So you have gathered evidence? How? (((yep - several hours of research using my Google-fu (and I am quite good at this, I must say - research, that is))) You show one lousy site and quote sayings from other mechanics. ((((again, I previously quoted TWO sites off the top of my head and suggest people GOOGLE FOR THEMSELVES TO SEE THE SAME THING, OVER AND OVER, FROM OTHER SITES. Also, I examined them all, side by side., and hope to now do an exhaustive, as scientific test as I can do. I am glad to back my shiite up and not just parrot others' sayings))))  I can do the same thing. If you searched back on this very subject, you would see that. You would also see that others ON THIS SITE have had good luck with fram. I suppose, just like me, their skills stink though right?   (((no, but I think the previously mentioned concepts of group think and heavy marketing have had their effect, in a BIG way. I hear plenty of people swear that WD-40 is the best lubricant, rust preventative, do all in the world. That also, is nonsense. Its a standard Stoddard solvent that has its place, but advanced lubrication and rust preventative are NOT it - its ALL marketing tales passed on. (try some PTFE/Teflon, a molybdenum based grease, or cosmoline instead)))

So you have a big, bad degree. wow you are an expert. (((( didn't say that - I was just saying things about business psychology and brought up the degree, as I am heavily studied in such and not just pulling things out of my arse))) How do you KNOW you yourself are not falling for the same thing you accuse me of. ((( I am sure I have done such, and will do again. However, I make all attempts at research and data collection, to the best of my ability, before I feel I can make an accurate judgment.  Try food label reading sometime - its atrocious the crap that is pawned off on the public as a quality product - all because people are too lazy to read the label or do their own research. (for a good scare, read the label of most so-called "guacamoles" gawd awful blends of lard, chemicals, and high fructose corn syrup and that NOTHING like real guacamole))) I will have to call you an a$$hat though for your comment. Nice way to sidestep by using a republican style attack. Do you write for mccain? I PERSONALLY know a woman with a degree in psychology, she is a counselor in a school yet cant control her kids for crap. Clearly a degree does NOT make you an expert. It also does not make you qualified to say I am recommending an inferior product as you have NO factual proof it is inferior. Try again there.  (((AGAIN, it was in the context of business psychology - I have MANY other relevant experiences/certifications/degrees/past jobs, etc. I have not quoted or pulled out, to try and out rank anyone - that is nonsense. But if I am speaking of a specialized field like business psychology, I believe its QUITE relevant to state my degree. Otherwise, it could just be some site I looked at (which you are already discounting)))

Also, you got your parting line wrong  It is  "fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me."  As for those sites, like I said, they are not experts and how do we know that they are NOT biased? Did we personally watch their tests? No we did not.  ((( BUT YOU SEE THEIR PICTURES OF WHAT IS INSIDE - ARE YOU SAYING THEY FAKED IT??? MULTIPLE DIFFERENT SITES AND PEOPLE??? wow - awesome conspiracy theory there - do YOU write for right-wing wingnut sites?)))
As for card board, how does it replace rubber? I do not see cardboard orings? I do not see a cardboard case. I do not see a cardboard inner cap which is used to screw onto the mount. Clearly the main component that cardboard is used for is filtering.  (((again, have you even LOOKED at either of those links? They are car filters, and the caps, on the inside, that the filter paper mounts to, are CARDBOARD on the Fram and METAL AND/OR RUBBER on any other brand)))

You want to use your filter, fine. I am not saying you cant. I AM saying that you may be wrong on the fram filters and you can believe what you want but until there is REAL proof from real unbiased sources, not from a family website, you cannot claim a fram sucks, especially when others here stand by them. Like I said, this was hashed before. Do a search.  (((again, Group Think means nothing to me but it means EVERYTHING to corporations and marketing/advertising concepts)))
As one other point, have you had a fram filter fail on your own personal car or truck or bike? (((anecdotal nonsense and I have REPEATEDLY stated that oil filters rarely fail, outright - I have said this OVER AND OVER)))
A failure that was caused as a direct failure if the filter, not something just oil related.
Like I said, I have not and I have never seen one fail on any friends or families vehicle. I have only heard the claim on the internet and from 1 mechanic who was suspect anyways.

You never have said what filter you like. Post up so everyone else knows. I do not care, I am done here on this thread as regardless of who is right, we are both retards for arguing on the internet.  (((no, it is intellectual discourse on an important topic and very relevant to not only this post, but this site)))

At least I can leave this argument here if you can. Pretty stupid to carry it to other topics.  (((I can gladly leave it to "we will have to agree to disagree" as many great debates eventually come to that point, in a civilized and free society. I am not holding any grudges - THAT would be retarded. But I firmly believe in the data I have seen and I am ready and willing to back my shiite up with even more tests - especially those suggested by forum members. Also I am motivated as I am sad to see that you, as others, seem to choose to ignore a variety of sites on the internet that are at least TRYING to see AS SCIENTIFICALLY AS THEY CAN DO AT HOME which is the better oil filter and continue to purchase an inferior product. And that, my friend, will grab my attention faster ANY day, over he says/she says brand loyalty, marketing, advertising, product placement, etc etc. ))))

Just so you know, I am not holding any grudge here.

[dustyc]

I can't read the red, so I'm missing alot of what Motobunny is saying, but yes,  my local Walmart sells a Fram CH6009 for our bikes.  They also sell the oil I like  .  None of the Auto chains here sell filters for our bikes, so it's interesting to see that they do in other parts of the country. 

I read the Fram debates here and looked at the filters before I bought them and they looked like a good product to me.  I change my oil at 1000 miles, so the filter doesn't stay long anyway.

[MoTo-BunnY]

I can't read the red, so I'm missing alot of what Motobunny is saying, but yes,  my local Walmart sells a Fram CH6009 for our bikes.  They also sell the oil I like  .  None of the Auto chains here sell filters for our bikes, so it's interesting to see that they do in other parts of the country. 

I read the Fram debates here and looked at the filters before I bought them and they looked like a good product to me.  I change my oil at 1000 miles, so the filter doesn't stay long anyway.

That is unfortunate, as I was trying to address each statement, as it was presented, right next to it and saw no other way to do so in such lengthy quotes. I feel I can (and will continue) to present a strong argument of my points, backing up my statements to the best of my ability, and am disappointed that you (and others) may be missing out on what I have found (obviously .. .lol) to be an entertaining and interesting debate.

I strongly suggest you (and others) do your own research on this topic - even cut open a Fram and other brands, side by side, if you want, and draw your own conclusions.

I just hate to see people fall for marketing and hearsay, on such a clearly (to me) inferior product - all to save like $3-4!  yikes. . . .that's hardly even beer money, people!   lol

PLEASE read up on the concept of Group Think (link right there, to get you started) as it is very important concept in human society in general, and (I believe) most applicable and clearly at work here. (and just in the context of recommending Fram oil filters, without analysis or testing and/or the hesitation to disagree - not suggesting that the group here in dysfunctional, irrational in other ideas, or anything like that, found in more comprehensive and all-encompassing examples of group think).

[dustyc]

Could you go italic or bold next time?  The red on blue background just vibrates and I can't read it.

[rhinoracer]

I got this one from walmart and it doesn't come with all the gaskets, the one I bougt online from PartsnMore (EMGO brand) came with gasket and 2 orings, the Walmart Fram came with just the gasket.

Double checked and I was incorrect, Emgo came w/o orings, Walmart Fram gaskets were complete and nicely packed in plastic bag.

[Kev Nemo]

...Sorry getting off topic--Let's Ride-- the rain appears to have left Houston   
George

On your O/T-Did you get any wind damage? I grew up in League City and my parents are still there-no significant damage. Dodged the bullet again

The Eldar/Motobunny filter debate is one of the reasons I love this board-people serious about their SOHCs!

[MoTo-BunnY]

The Eldar/Motobunny filter debate is one of the reasons I love this board-people serious about their SOHCs!

he he. . . it was 'good for me too'       I'm a feisty lass when I get wound up, what can I say?  ('tis the Irish in me + I always wuvs a good debate. .  .)   no hard feelings eh, Eldar?   

[eldar]

See, there is our problem moto. You have irish and I have scottish! That would mean we were both born with crankyness and the love of a good argument.
Dont worry, in the years here, I have only had a real issue with 2 people and they were the ones to carry it on.

There is only 1 thing I light not be able to forgive......That damn green beer crap!

[george]

...Sorry getting off topic--Let's Ride-- the rain appears to have left Houston   
George

On your O/T-Did you get any wind damage? I grew up in League City and my parents are still there-no significant damage. Dodged the bullet again

Oh Boy did we get damage ! My wife moved hundreds of plants to my space- the garage-and I've had to share space with an indoor jungle ! As far as tropical storm damage , it was awful , I left a half a can of Diet Coke on the patio and it blew over , also there was some evidence of ashes being disturbed in my porch ashtray ! I'm waiting on FEMA as we speak!!   

The Eldar/Motobunny filter debate is one of the reasons I love this board-people serious about their SOHCs!

Yes me too, is it safe to come out now ? I just removed all traces of ever having any oil filters anywhere near my property and promise if those pesky devils return I'm calling the Law!!

George

[MoTo-BunnY]

See, there is our problem moto. You have irish and I have scottish! That would mean we were both born with crankyness and the love of a good argument.
Dont worry, in the years here, I have only had a real issue with 2 people and they were the ones to carry it on.

There is only 1 thing I light not be able to forgive......That damn green beer crap!

yup. .. .and I'm of English and German heritage too - so along with the Irish, all my heritage are folks who love a good scrum (and I wasn't even swilling beer heartily with all that typing, either!)

gotta love being an 'Amerimutt'!   

[NH_CB550F]

My local PepBoys carries Purolator ML16809 (Fram CH009 equivalent) for 750s/550s for around $4. and yes all O rings/gaskets included.
Not as far a drive as Wallyworld either.

[Blueridgerunner]

Thanks to a FRAM filter who's cardboard ends collapsed and ruined the motor in my truck I will never use a FRAM filter unless and until they improve their design. I am $4500 wiser.