Topic: Converting CB550 to LED... question

[mikethejeepguy]

So I got left standing on the side of the road again with my 76 CB550. Gotta love the charging system. I went for a good ride the other night where the bike ran upwards of 3000rpm and all was good, however ran out of juice as soon as I hit suburbia the next night. Unfortunately most of the driving I do is around town, and the local road designers love stop signs and stop lights, SO it seems like I have pretty much a battery operated bike on my hands.

I have read up on the forum about the charging system, and it seems that it was barely adequate when these bikes were brand new, and as they age, well I guess not all things get better with age. I have a stock electronics system on a 1976 CB550F, for except the headlight, which is a Delta Halogen headlight with a 60/55W bulb (which I purchased before realizing that it will tax the system more than the stock). I really like the brightness of the headlight and would like to keep it if possible, and was planning to install a Dyna S electronic ignition over the off-season. Which I understand doesn't help my charging system.

This is the headlight...
http://www.jcwhitney.com/autoparts/ItemBrowse/c-10111/s-10101/p-100000388387/mediaCode-ZX/appId-100000388387/Pr-p_CATENTRY_ID:100000388387

SO... seeing as the charging system itself doesn't seem to be easy to upgrade to higher output, I am planning doing a sort of electric/electronic diet for my CB550. My goal here is SYSTEM EFFICIENCY (and wallet efficiency) So I can run the things that matter. I am also thinking of doing a write up of this as I go along to help anyone else looking to do the same.

I plan to polish and coat all terminal with dielectric grease, and replace wires where necessary (as per other posts). I would like to also switch over to electronic regulator and rectifier and switch all other lights to LED. Which makes me ask for advice on what I will need to do this. I would like to change my little bulbs in the dash, my gauges, turn signals (front and back), and stop light. Now for the holy grail... I would like to retain near stock or better brightness and have my running lights up front working as well and cooperating with my turn signals. I am also thinking of purchasing new (more streamlined) LED turn signals.

I understand that I will need an electronic flasher relay to compensate for the lower load of the LEDs in the turn signals. Does it just replace the original? Do I need one per signal or per side? I would like to avoid going the resistor way, since my ultimate goal is to utilize the low draw of the LEDs so I don't have to walk home from almost every ride  Is this the best way? Can I use a flasher from another motorcycle/car to do this?

I found these relays for now...
http://www.customled.com/PRODUCTS/FLASHER_RELAY/flasher_relay.htm

Has anyone had any success with their running lights and their turn signals using LEDs? How about using these Magic Blinker units? What would it entail to build these? I am not afraid of soldering. I imagine these would work with electronic flasher relays or is that redundant?

Magic Blinker
http://www.customled.com/PRODUCTS/MAGIC_BLINKER/magic_blinker.htm

I have purchased LEDs from www.superbrightleds.com for my Jeep before (changed whole interior over to LED) and am happy with their products. However, I found when replacing the 1156 bulbs in the Jeep that they were marginally visible through the red lenses (a.k.a. red filter) and had to take them out again. I have read somewhere that it is because the red light range emitted by the LEDs is so narrow that most of it gets absorbed by the lenses. Any suggestions in this departmen and on retaining near stock brightness through the original rear lens? I believe the lights I used were Eurolights from Toucan Ind. I will change the rear tail light if necessary.

I know with the gauges I might have to change the sockets, and change some things inside. I am planning on taking the gauges apart anyway to put new white face gauge decals, so no big deal. Am thinking of painting the inside white or lining it with reflective material, and possibly wiring 4 LEDs instead of the original 2 light bulbs to get more even light coverage. Any pointers? Am thinking of using the BA9 units from www.superbrightleds.com for the instrument lights and gauges.

Any advice, experience, links, wiring diagrams, or cross over parts from  would be HUGELY appreciated. Even if the advice is that the savings of changing it all will be insignificant and to abandon mission...  before I start spending $$$

[mikethejeepguy]

Wow.. I never realized how long this post is until I posted it. My apologies for the length and thanks for reading/helping.

[kslrr]

You will either need an electronic flasher or keep one conventional turn signal bulb on each side so that the stock flasher works (this is what I did on my 650).

[karmasic]

the very first thing to do is get rid of the tail light bulb and put in a dual intensity LED. that should make up for the extra load of the halogen head light. and unless you are super old and ride with your blinkers on all the time; the stock signals are not used enough to drain anything major off the battery.

i run regular signals, halogen head light, dyna S, and a LED tail light.

http://www.superbrightleds.com/1157.htm

[mikethejeepguy]

Thanks for reading and replying... Karmasic which 1157 do you have? I was thinking either of the Luxeon bulbs? Also did you end up getting a white or red bulb? I'm not that old, but I gotta admit, I do forget to turn off my signal time to time 

The 5W Luxeon model draws 335ma while the 3W draws only 270ma. How does that compare to an incandescent 1157?

[karmasic]

30-LED 15mm Bayonet Based LED Bulbs

1156 and 1157 bulbs with 30 Super Bright narrow viewing angle LEDs
Note: these bulbs are oversized - please measure your bulbs housings and click "more info" below to see dimensional drawing to determine
if they will fit your application. Forcing them into sockets where they will not fit can break off the locking pins and void the warranty

i got the red. so its extra RED! works great cot quite as bright as my incandescent. but thats cool, i have no complaints.


i am yet to have re-charging issues.

[FunJimmy]

Mike

I switched my signals and tail light to LED units and found a great LED compatible flasher on ebay. I originally tried the resistors to correct the fast flash problem, but the vibration just broke the thin feed wires. The LED flasher was a direct replacement for the stock unit and everything works great. I didn't integrate front running lights with my signal conversion though. A big plus is the fact that the signals and tail light are much brighter than stock too.

Good Luck and keep us posted
FJ

[333]

Don't worry about the length of your post- the more background info, the better.  And it seems like you've got the bases basically covered.  On to my 2 cents.

I'm with Karmasic, the turn signals don't pose a constant draw, so it depends on how much you use them.  But you can't discount the coolness factor- LEDs look cool.  Another idea is to go with an HID headlight.  Even more light with less current draw.  The downside is that it is expensive, around $200.00.  It is here where I usually insert a link, but due to a computer malfunction, I lost all my bookmarks.  I will just say that Google is your friend.

[mikethejeepguy]

Thanks for the info guys.

I will order the rear bulb from superbrightleds.com this week.  I have read up on the HID replacement a bit too last night. Sounds VERY interesting, though it might be the last upgrade on my list since its somewhat pricey. After more research I am STRONGLY considering adding a digital voltmeter gauge too to keep an eye on volt spending while I ride so I know to turn around and head home if the voltage dips. Though I am hoping that eventually that won't be an issue.

What is a good/inexpensive source for ordering the 3 phase rectifier? I gather the 35A -  600V is sufficient? Also, any good sources for new LED indicators and electronic flasher relays? A good source for the digital volt meters? I would prefer to have an actual numerical readout than the LED indicator lights.  Also, those of you that changed over the dash (idiot lights) to LED, what light bulbs did you use? LED BA9's??

Much thanks for all your wisdom...

[MoTo-BunnY]

I know this has been covered really well a couple times - might want to search around a bit more?

Here is one real good post covering not only the LEDs but the voltage gauge install, you mentioned:


http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=38518.msg396903;topicseen#msg396903


I really wish there was a better charging option available for the CB500/550s - I would love to put some extra lights on for safety sakes but don't want to tax the (lame) charging system. One of my next projects though, is to put Luxeon LEDs in for the tail light and brake lights - that will cut down the load, a bit, at least.

Other than that, I always plug a trickle charger into the battery - I use a Black & Decker VEC080BD, of which I highly recommend. It's a 2-amp 'smart' trickle charger (so as not to overcharge) that even comes with a permanent mount thingy that goes onto the battery, allowing fast plug-ins without having to remove the side cover. The charger goes for about $20-25 and seems real durable - I have been using mine every day now for like 2 years?

[mikethejeepguy]

Thanks MoTo-BunnY for the link. I have been following Burma Shave's progress on that thread and have read it religiously. There are actually a lot of parallels between mine and his charging system problem. His thread unfortunately ends with no conclusion. Also the info I am having a hard time finding here is what number/type bulbs people used to replace their stock bulbs, and if I need only one turn signal relay or two (one per side). Am kind of new to the motorcycle thing  I've been reading threads here like crazy and am hoping that maybe someone who has done a complete conversion will chime in and help me out.

Things I have found up to this point:

I put in a red 18 LED 1157 into my tail light. It is dimmer than stock, but lights the same way as stock. Half brightness running and full with brake applied. The Luxeon bulbs sound great and I will likely order one. Isn't a 3W draw almost the same as the stock incandescent bulb though?

I also put in an amber 9 LED 1157 into my turn signal socket (out of curiosity) since they are nowhere near the brightness of stock, and the sideways position makes them barely visible since LEDs are brightest head on. The good news is that they light as running lights at partial brightness with the ingnition on, and flash full strength with signals flashing. Perhaps a 90 degree 1157 would work as running lights AND signals?

The rears are 1156 single filament bulbs. If they were turned to face backward, they would work.

I have also found this volt meter:


http://www.lightobject.com/3-digit-Mini-Red-LED-100A-Amp-Meter-P97.aspx

Specification
Accuracy: +/- 0.5%
Type: LED (Red)
Range: 0-99.9A
Resolution: 0.1A
Size: 45mm x 26.5mm x 20mm

I think it would be great for sitting just above the bars where Burma has his LED and somewhat unobtrusive. The challenge is that I would need to knock the 12V down to 5V to have it work off the motorcycle's system, and turn on with the ignition.

Am curious what light bulbs people have ended up successfully using in their gauges? Type and bulb number?

[edbikerii]

BA9S-W from Superbrightleds.com

They work great.  The LED white is a little more blue than stock, which gives the gauges a more modern look at night.

[edbikerii]

For the taillight I use the 1157-RLX3 from superbrightleds.com.

It is VERY bright.  It is most definitely brighter than incandescant 1157.  Very wide angle, too.  I believe it to be superior in every way to incandescant, except that the license plate illumination will be red and that might be an issue at inspection time, or a hardass cop might give you a hard time.

[noisebomb]

edbikerii, not sure if you will get this reply, but I was wondering if you had a pic of your gauges lit with the LED's.  I am about to purchase some, and am very interested in how the finished product looks.

Thanks!

[Frankenkit]

I can vouch for the final product there, at least on a 650.  Very bright, almost a blue-white to it, so while the red is still a bright red on the oil light, the green neutral light is a neat blue-green.  Bright enough to be visible in broad daylight.  Don't see much of the gauge backlights, though, during the day.

[noisebomb]

Thanks for the answer Kit.  I am actually replacing the 2 bulbs with a 12-inch strip around the inside of the base.  A more even light source, no bright spots.  I just can't decide between "cool white", "warm white", or "natural white".

I sent them an email requesting pics of each type, but have yet to receive a response.

[edbikerii]

Ask, and ye shall receive!

When your eyes have become more accustomed to the darkness the gauges look brighter.

edbikerii, not sure if you will get this reply, but I was wondering if you had a pic of your gauges lit with the LED's.  I am about to purchase some, and am very interested in how the finished product looks.

Thanks!

[Dave-and-his-550]

I dunno, but can you send me/post pics of your bike? If thats the one in your sig, I'd like to see it up close! I'm thinking of respraying my tank about that same color. thnx 

[edbikerii]

My bike went through a cafe phase, after which I returned to stock seat and motogp bars for comfort.

I dunno, but can you send me/post pics of your bike? If thats the one in your sig, I'd like to see it up close! I'm thinking of respraying my tank about that same color. thnx 

[edbikerii]

a couple more

[noisebomb]

Sweet!  Thanks.  Do you remember which white those bulbs are? 

[Frankenkit]

ooh, sounds neat.  I'd go with the cool white because it's the standard led white, kind of a bluish tinge which might make the natural green of the gauge faces pop a little more in the dark.

[edbikerii]

I got all my stuff from SuperBright LEDs.  The front and rear turn signals didn't really work out too well, as they are not angled properly to be seen.  I never did figure out a better way, I just went with aftermarket turn signals, including the LEDs, housings, etc.

Application   SuperBright LED
Taillight   1157-RLX3
Oil Light   BA9S-R
Inst Lights   BA9S-W
Neut light   BA9S-G
high beam indicator   BA9S-B
turn signal indicator   BA9S-A
Front turn signal   68-A9
Rear turn signal   67-A15

The 1157-RLX3 worked out REALLY WELL for the taillight.  No modification necessary whatsoever.  MUCH BRIGHTER THAN STOCK.  Only problem is that there is no WHITE illumination on the license plate, but that is easily remedied with another white LED if you care, or even light'n'bolts or something if you have too much cash to burn.  I just ran without the license plate light, and nobody seemed to care.  Never got pulled over for it, and even when I was pulled for other things, the cops never seemed to notice (hmmmm.... maybe I'm just a good talker, and the cops didn't want to hassle me).

Have fun.

Sweet!  Thanks.  Do you remember which white those bulbs are?  

[combat77]

With regard to CB550's, I've found that a good cleaning of my connections, a redundant ground or two and setting my regulator up dynamically (bike running), have been sufficient in the past. LED taillights are a great way to reduce load and be seen at night but their is no replacement for charging system health. The internet is full of claims that (brand x) Japanese bikes had insufficient charging systems from the assembly line...this is not true. Keep it simple. Previous owners are the problem with vintage bikes more often than not.

[babyfood1217]

Perhaps you could look into a HID headlight.  Might take some tinkering (I think a few on this board have done this), but would draw considerably less than the stock OR the aftermarket halogen.  You've got to be sure to get a true HID (with ballast), not just a plug in "HID"-like halogen.  I'll try to dig up a few of the info bits from when my friend converted.

-Chris