Author Topic: Rusty tank...bike sputters around 4000 rpm  (Read 3765 times)

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Offline 78_SaltLick

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Rusty tank...bike sputters around 4000 rpm
« on: September 18, 2005, 11:24:26 am »
So i traded my bike and got a new set of issues.  8)

I looked in the tank and noticed its pretty darn rusty, well really rusty. It does have an inline fuel filter i believe (line that you can see fuel run through has some sort of paper filter in it) my question is can a rusty tank with an inline fuel filter still give you performance issues? The bike runs pretty good, but ive noticed today when i took it on the freeway that when your going in 4th gear it cuts out/sputters and spits until i reach 5th gear. I am going to clean out the tank this winter, should i clean it now instead of watiing? Just wondering if a really rusty tank can really mess up the carbs. I figure the guy who had it before me ran it this way for the last year every day, what more harm can i do if i wait.....
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Offline DammitDan

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Re: Rusty tank...bike sputters around 4000 rpm
« Reply #1 on: September 18, 2005, 11:29:12 am »
I'm curious about this too...  I've got a rusty tank, but I've been running with an in-line filter and haven't had any problems until I get to almost 85mph (starts to bog and acceleration becomes tempermental).

Fortuntely for me, going faster than 65 without a shield kinda hurts, so I don't do it ;D
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Offline egar

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Re: Rusty tank...bike sputters around 4000 rpm
« Reply #2 on: September 18, 2005, 03:09:53 pm »
I had nothing but problems with my rusty tank. It bogged out all the time and the jets (which have pinhole-sized opening) clogged quite easily. I got another tank and have had no problems. There are a bunch of products that will clean and seal your tank. Just do a search on this site and you'll find plenty of information.
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Offline TwoTired

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Re: Rusty tank...bike sputters around 4000 rpm
« Reply #3 on: September 18, 2005, 03:26:38 pm »
A filter stops or blocks and holds particles larger than size x.  Smaller ones flow through.  If these particles are still smaller than the smallest orifice in the carb, they flow through it and the engine and out the exhaust.

Who cares?  Well there may be issues when the fuel is NOT flowing.

Anatomy of a rust particle.
You've seen severe rust scale.  It's clumpy with jagged edges.  Its heavier than gasoline, too, and settles into low points with gravity.  Well, the small bits of rust are jagged, too.  The ones that get past the filter and into the carburetor fuel bowls, settle to the bottom and interlink with others, forming larger ones (even flakes) while the bike sits without fuel flowing through the carbs.  These larger ones can block the small orifices, usually the slow jets, and can also keep the float valves from closing completely, causing them to overflow.

Lastly, rust particles of any size are abrasive and can cause wear to occur more rapidly where any part of the contaminated fuel contacts metal.  I.E. Carb slides, float valves, cylinder walls, valve faces, petcock seals, etc.

Rust is bad for machines.  It will eventually block fuel filter flow and starve the engine for fuel.  But, I can't tell from the problem description if rust or filters are the direct cause of your performance issues.

Cheers,




Lloyd... (SOHC4 #11 Original Mail List)
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Offline CB500_k2

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Re: Rusty tank...bike sputters around 4000 rpm
« Reply #4 on: September 18, 2005, 04:06:15 pm »
 Just bight the bullet and clean the tank out.  I used Kreem cleaner and tank conditioner on my CB500.  You just have to find ways to  block off the drain holes and filler spout.  I used a piece of wood with a rubber strip attached to seal the petcock opening and a rubber stopper to seal the filler port.  The phosphoric acid does a superb job on rust and the sealer prevents any rust formation in the future.  If you have minor leaks in the tank the sealer takes care of them too.  Once done you have no rust to worry about.  It is still essential to clean out the petcock and change any rubber bits which have been hardened by time.

Tom
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1975 CB400F SuperSport
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Offline heffay

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Re: Rusty tank...bike sputters around 4000 rpm
« Reply #5 on: September 18, 2005, 05:07:34 pm »
dammitdan... by your symptoms i would guess that you might be running pod filters.  they are wonderful but can sometimes cause problems at high speed due to too much airflow.

it might sound weird but find a way to block airflow temporarily... cardboard and zipties work well.  then take it up to that high speed again and see what happens.
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Offline 78_SaltLick

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Re: Rusty tank...bike sputters around 4000 rpm
« Reply #6 on: September 18, 2005, 07:56:50 pm »
So today is the day i really took it for a good ride. Went to work about an hour each way, alot on the freeway, then back roads ect. Now im realizing my bike spits and sputters and cuts out at low speeds, no matter what gear your in. So basically, first gear start out spit sputter, then as you give it more gas it takes off and drives fine. Same thing in second gear, and third, and 4th, and 5th. It idles great, and when you rev the engine when its idling or at a stop sign no problems. Starts up every morning without even putting the choke on, and is warmed up in under a minute, and purrs like a kitten when idleing.....? I dont think its a rusty tank, i wish it was, but i dont think so. Any ideas? Possibly the points?
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Kelvin8

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Re: Rusty tank...bike sputters around 4000 rpm
« Reply #7 on: September 18, 2005, 08:08:05 pm »
Clean the tank. I'm surprised you even have to ask. Even with an inline filter (I presume IT looks clean) there may be a filter in the tank which is clogged or at least partly obstructed leading to fuel starvation. OR, rust could be obstructing the feed to the petcock, again leading to fuel starvation. Clean and derust the tank, clean out the petcock (IT may be gummed up and preventing fuel from flowing freely).

Offline DammitDan

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Re: Rusty tank...bike sputters around 4000 rpm
« Reply #8 on: September 18, 2005, 08:43:08 pm »
dammitdan... by your symptoms i would guess that you might be running pod filters.  they are wonderful but can sometimes cause problems at high speed due to too much airflow.

it might sound weird but find a way to block airflow temporarily... cardboard and zipties work well.  then take it up to that high speed again and see what happens.

Yeah Hef, I do run with pod filters.  I'm looking to go back to stock when I get the nerve to re-balance/re-sync the carbs after installation.
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Offline TwoTired

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Re: Rusty tank...bike sputters around 4000 rpm
« Reply #9 on: September 18, 2005, 10:33:59 pm »
Starts up every morning without even putting the choke on, and is warmed up in under a minute, and purrs like a kitten when idleing.....?  Any ideas? Possibly the points?

Dirty, overly restrictive air cleaner...
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eldar

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Re: Rusty tank...bike sputters around 4000 rpm
« Reply #10 on: September 19, 2005, 04:22:59 pm »
What type of bike do you have now? You had a 78 750 and were looking at a 500/550 size.

When your problem happens, is only under load while accelerating or can you make it happen when not moving?

Offline 78_SaltLick

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Re: Rusty tank...bike sputters around 4000 rpm
« Reply #11 on: September 19, 2005, 06:50:28 pm »
I now have a 74 CB550

No, its only under load. If im at a stop sign, and rev the engine it sounds great, or twist the throttle while its in neutral stnading still and it revs up with no problems. as soon as i put it in first gear and take off, it spits and sputters and coughs until it gets to a higher RPM, then it evens out and accelerates nicely, pop it into second gear same thing, same thing for third and so on. Air filter someone said? Like i said before, the tank is rusty, but not that bad. It does have two new inline fuel filters also.
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Offline TwoTired

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Re: Rusty tank...bike sputters around 4000 rpm
« Reply #12 on: September 20, 2005, 01:15:12 am »
Mark your twist grip so you can determine the throttle position (s) where you have performance issues.  Speeds and RPMs aren't as important as throttle positions because you have mechanically linked slides.

The carbs have metering devices that dominate related to throttle positions.  Mains: WOT, 1/8 to 3/4 throttle: slide needles,  Idle to 1/8: slow system/airbleed combo.  While they all contribute something at all positions, they dominate during their specific position.

It's silly to adjust carbs until you are absolutely certain all the tuneup items are addressed first.
Lloyd... (SOHC4 #11 Original Mail List)
72 500, 74 550, 75 550K, 75 550F, 76 550F, 77 550F X2, 78 550K, 77 750F X2, 78 750F, 79CX500, 85 700SC, GL1100

Those that learn from history are doomed to repeat it by those that don't learn from history.

Offline 78_SaltLick

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Re: Rusty tank...bike sputters around 4000 rpm
« Reply #13 on: September 20, 2005, 06:31:22 am »
Ahh yes, i should probably start with a tuneup.....new plugs and such...i cant believe the guy that traded me this bike drove a 4hr drive on the freeway with the throttle like it was (extremely stuck and hard to turn)  and the way it is running in the rain.
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Offline Dennis

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Re: Rusty tank...bike sputters around 4000 rpm
« Reply #14 on: September 20, 2005, 08:14:43 am »
...i cant believe the guy that traded me this bike drove a 4hr drive on the freeway with the throttle like it was (extremely stuck and hard to turn) and the way it is running in the rain.


Maybe you should have ridden it before you agreed to the trade!

Offline 78_SaltLick

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Re: Rusty tank...bike sputters around 4000 rpm
« Reply #15 on: September 20, 2005, 08:51:43 am »
I agreed to the trade after i rode it, i knew the throttle issue couldnt be anything more than a new cable or some lube, alot of the issues dont seem major, but the list is stacking up.......
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eldar

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Re: Rusty tank...bike sputters around 4000 rpm
« Reply #16 on: September 20, 2005, 09:24:34 am »
These issues never all come out till you own the bike!