Author Topic: SL350 Engine vs CB/CL350 Engine Questions  (Read 19290 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline ohiocaferacer

  • Hot Shot
  • ***
  • Posts: 616
  • www.OHIOCAFERACERS.com
    • OHIO CAFE RACERS
Re: SL350 Engine vs CB/CL350 Engine Questions
« Reply #25 on: November 24, 2008, 07:40:39 am »
Bill,

Yes....you can make these bikes run without the battery by changing the stator/alternator in to an engery transfer magneto. There are a couple articles at my website about this.

I have done this on my CB175 race bike and it works......the problem is getting the spark advance set to fire at proper timing for higher rpms. If you get the bike to run at idle....it tends to bog down at higher rpms......if you get it to fire at higher rpms....it wont idle.

I was able to get my bike to run with the ETM, but above 5 or 6K the bike bogs down(using stock coils). Think I have to use low resistance coils...have some yamaha RD coils......but havent got them to work yet.

So.....overall it works.....but still havent got it to run perfect yet.

Offline bill440cars

  • Feeling More & More,
  • Really Old Timer ...
  • *******
  • Posts: 12,358
  • Tryin' To Slow Down "Time"!
Re: SL350 Engine vs CB/CL350 Engine Questions
« Reply #26 on: November 24, 2008, 08:22:19 am »


      Hey Greg, Thanks for that. I'm looking for any input on the subject because I want to put together a "play in the fields (or woods) bike that will be as bare as possible (with mostly what I have on hand) Now, I have a 72' SL350 rolling frame and another 72' (that I want to put together as a decent looking example of the SL350) So, after I remove anything that I could use to resurrect 1 72' the other one will be the "Bare Bones Play Bike". I need to try to come up with a low priced (it that's possible) set of SL cases to put the CL engine(that I already have) into. The CL engine might bolt into the SL frame without removing the "Protrusion" that the electric starter bolts to, but it would not look right ans so, I can either swap out the cases or attempt to remove that portion of the upper case half (and try to make it look as if it never existed) or swap the cases. I thought about swapping out the upper case half (there is one on ebay, but kinda "up there" pricewise, for my budget) but I didn't know it that was feasible. I'm concerned that the SL upper case half won't mate properly with the CL lower half. Any input on this , would be appreciated. :)


        BTW, good to hear from you Greg,  Bill ;)     
Member # 1969
PRAYERS ALWAYS FOR: Bre, Jeff & Virginia, Bear, Trevor & Brianna ( Close Friend's Daughter)
"Because HE lives, I can Face Tomorrow"                  
 You CAN Teach An Old Dog New Tricks, Just Takes A Little Bit Longer & A Lot More Patience!! 
             
Main Rides: '02 Durango, '71 Swinger & Dad's '93
                  Dakota LE 4x4 '66 CB77 & '72 SL350K2
Watch What You Step Into, It Could  End Up A Mess!

Offline kirkn

  • Expert
  • ****
  • Posts: 1,046
Re: SL350 Engine vs CB/CL350 Engine Questions
« Reply #27 on: November 25, 2008, 11:49:23 am »
Hey, Bill,

A fellow by the name of Wayne Huff over on the Thumpertalk Forum, vintage sub-forum has done a no-battery conversion of the early Honda SL100.  This would be virtually identical to what you'd want to do to your 350.  Other than the 6-volt / 12-volt differences and 1-cyl vs. 2-cyl, I think it would work perfectly.

Here's his website where you can find a very good write-up on how to do it.  http://waynescyclegarage.mysite.com/

A couple guys over there have done it per his instructions, and all rave about it.

Good luck.

*edit* - here's Wayne's write-up from a thread he posted on the subject on The XL Forums on oldrice.com:

SL 100 battery free!!

Heres how I did it which is easily reversable if you don't like it which I can't imagine.
This is for racers or bikes that need no lights and is not a cure for tuning problems etc.

You will need an AC coil (where the plug wire comes from). I used one from an old Honda Express which had the condensor (capacitor) built on. Just about any coil from most of the two stroke magneto powered bikes will do if you can mount it.You will need a Honda rotor puller. Do not try to remove the rotor without it, It is basically just a short bolt but would be a good investment(cheap) and will remove just about every Honda rotor out there.

STEP ONE: Start with a well tuned SL , the point gap and timing should be in specs.If not your reference points will be wrong.

STEP TWO: Lock the advance to full. I simply removed the bolt/washer that secures the point cam and advance mechanism,I found the perfect washer that just fit over the camshaft end and was just thick enough to bind the point cam in a fixed position.(full advance).when I replaced the bolt & washer.There may be many ways to lock the advance but this was so easy.

STEP THREE: Remove the rotor and woodruff key. Set the key aside as you will not need it. Clean the rotor and crank taper with contact cleaner etc to remove all oil and residue so the rotor will not slip.Turn the engine over to the point the contacts just start to open (fire).Install the rotor with the magnets aligned with the windings on the stator. If the holes instead of magnets are lined up with the coils you will have no spark when you need it.Replace the rotor bolt and tighten to normal torque. It should not slip as the taper is the main thing keeping it in place and not the key.Scribe your new fire and TDC mark on your rotor for future tune ups.

STEP FOUR: Unplug the harness coming from the stator.It should have 4 wires, one is for the neutral light switch. Remove that one to get it out of the way.That leaves three, you will use two.The pink wire goes to your newly installed AC coil.The yellow wire goes to ground to complete the circuit. The other one is not used at this time.

STEP FIVE: Wire you up a simple kill button or switch, remove the rectifier, uneeded fuse and excess crap and enjoy the simplicity.

I have had time to test this and it works great, the bike should start easy as ever and maybe even run better.Mine hits a little harder from the bottom(the advanced timing). Play with your timing some if you want just remember the magnets have to line up with the windings when it fires.I like things as simple as possible and I don't have to worry about keeping a battery charged as well as the weight and corrosive propertys of a box of lead and acid!

Your bike will crank and run with the original DC coil but do not be tempted to ride it! It can cause major engine damage like holes in pistons.The AC coil is key to this mod.Now what do I do with all that extra room where the batt and rectifier went? I'll think of something.

Thanks for all the help, This works really well and should give you no problems.

DirtHippie, wayne huff

I will remove the extra windings in the stator soon and will update that procedure.
« Last Edit: November 25, 2008, 01:37:36 pm by kirkn »

Offline bill440cars

  • Feeling More & More,
  • Really Old Timer ...
  • *******
  • Posts: 12,358
  • Tryin' To Slow Down "Time"!
Re: SL350 Engine vs CB/CL350 Engine Questions
« Reply #28 on: November 25, 2008, 08:55:42 pm »


       Tom C, I am so sorry that I completely passed through without acknowledging your post. :-[ I read what you had to say, then I read what Greg posted and completely forgot to thank you for the info and all. I'm trying to soak up all I can and apply what I can to this "Mixed Up SL350". Sorry about that. I DO try to recognize each and every one that puts in on any post that I am involved with.

                                 Thank You, Bill ;)
Member # 1969
PRAYERS ALWAYS FOR: Bre, Jeff & Virginia, Bear, Trevor & Brianna ( Close Friend's Daughter)
"Because HE lives, I can Face Tomorrow"                  
 You CAN Teach An Old Dog New Tricks, Just Takes A Little Bit Longer & A Lot More Patience!! 
             
Main Rides: '02 Durango, '71 Swinger & Dad's '93
                  Dakota LE 4x4 '66 CB77 & '72 SL350K2
Watch What You Step Into, It Could  End Up A Mess!

Offline bill440cars

  • Feeling More & More,
  • Really Old Timer ...
  • *******
  • Posts: 12,358
  • Tryin' To Slow Down "Time"!
Re: SL350 Engine vs CB/CL350 Engine Questions
« Reply #29 on: November 25, 2008, 09:22:55 pm »


       Hey thanks Kirk for your input on this too! 8) Man, with all that I'm learning about this, I should be in business! ;) Here is a photo of a 71' SL350 (unless someone could give me an assist here) just try to picture this bike without the light, gauges, mirrors, a smaller (but adequate) seat, open air behind the carbs (with pods) where the side covers, battery and other electrical items (that won't be needed) were  and stock exhaust system (replaced with something higher up & lighter). Have I given enough info that someone might be able to modify this photo and make it resemble, at least somewhat of a resemblance of my vision for that SL350?  would certainly appreciate it. ;)

         
Member # 1969
PRAYERS ALWAYS FOR: Bre, Jeff & Virginia, Bear, Trevor & Brianna ( Close Friend's Daughter)
"Because HE lives, I can Face Tomorrow"                  
 You CAN Teach An Old Dog New Tricks, Just Takes A Little Bit Longer & A Lot More Patience!! 
             
Main Rides: '02 Durango, '71 Swinger & Dad's '93
                  Dakota LE 4x4 '66 CB77 & '72 SL350K2
Watch What You Step Into, It Could  End Up A Mess!

Offline bill440cars

  • Feeling More & More,
  • Really Old Timer ...
  • *******
  • Posts: 12,358
  • Tryin' To Slow Down "Time"!
Re: SL350 Engine vs CB/CL350 Engine Questions
« Reply #30 on: January 04, 2009, 10:10:28 pm »


       Bumping this forward, so I can more easily find it to access the info on setting it up to run without Battery Voltage. Got some pretty good info, thanks to Tom C, Greg (ohiocaferacer) and Kirk (kirkn). Just might be able to work this out to where even an "Old Man" can kick start this thing! ::) :D
Member # 1969
PRAYERS ALWAYS FOR: Bre, Jeff & Virginia, Bear, Trevor & Brianna ( Close Friend's Daughter)
"Because HE lives, I can Face Tomorrow"                  
 You CAN Teach An Old Dog New Tricks, Just Takes A Little Bit Longer & A Lot More Patience!! 
             
Main Rides: '02 Durango, '71 Swinger & Dad's '93
                  Dakota LE 4x4 '66 CB77 & '72 SL350K2
Watch What You Step Into, It Could  End Up A Mess!