Author Topic: 21 inch cafe?  (Read 61917 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline HavocTurbo

  • Angry little bastard of an
  • Old Timer
  • ******
  • Posts: 3,739
  • Can you tell?
Re: 21 inch rear wheel cafe?
« Reply #75 on: January 06, 2009, 08:55:22 PM »
ok i need to threadjack for a second , ....Havoc , your new avatar makes me cringe every time i see it, it's awful .
 not ha ha ha funny awful,.... just awful

ok back to the debate of how to stuff a 32" mud tire on the back of your moped  ;D

This better for you spikey???  ;D Sorry bout that.
'48 HD Panhead - Exxon Valdez
'78 CB550K - Fokker CB.3
'78 Honda CB750K - Mavrik
'80 Yamaha XS850G - Kanibalistik
09 XL883L - No Name

Offline Industrial Cafe

  • Like a well oiled
  • Really Old Timer ...
  • *******
  • Posts: 6,372
  • [Brian] I've got something to say about that!
    • Undead Asphalt
Re: 21 inch rear wheel cafe?
« Reply #76 on: January 06, 2009, 09:43:10 PM »
Havoc- What are you thinkin' on width? I can't go over a 130-140 tire really, because of the width of the swingarm and how far the springs and chain are from the rubber. 
   I like the relative skinnyness of my bike, I mean compared to modern street bikes.
 
and I'm gettin' tired of my wide back tire.
everything I say is pure speculation and
I have no idea what I'm talking about  ._.


                                    Marla              .:71CB750:.CAFE

billybobobrain

  • Guest
Re: 21 inch rear wheel cafe?
« Reply #77 on: January 06, 2009, 10:06:05 PM »
I'm kinda getting sick of the 16 inch cafe look. No offence to those that have that. I was headed that way with my k2 750 I even have the rim but the more I look at the last bike I did, 72 cb500 cafe with the stock 18" the more I like it. Can you find rubber for the back rim in 21"? I mean good rubber duel compounds and a verity of tread patterns?

Offline Industrial Cafe

  • Like a well oiled
  • Really Old Timer ...
  • *******
  • Posts: 6,372
  • [Brian] I've got something to say about that!
    • Undead Asphalt
Re: 21 inch rear wheel cafe?
« Reply #78 on: January 06, 2009, 10:15:55 PM »
I agree, now that i have the 16 on there I miss my skinny 18.
 
    and no, I'm havin a hard time findin 21inch rear tires.
everything I say is pure speculation and
I have no idea what I'm talking about  ._.


                                    Marla              .:71CB750:.CAFE

Offline Spikeybike

  • when planting C4 at your enemy's base make sure you don't use a
  • Really Old Timer ...
  • *******
  • Posts: 7,265
  • member #1150
Re: 21 inch rear wheel cafe?
« Reply #79 on: January 06, 2009, 10:45:29 PM »

This better for you spikey???  ;D Sorry bout that.

 ;D ;D ;D yes

Offline crazypj

  • I'm brill, me
  • Old Timer
  • ******
  • Posts: 4,467
  • first 100,000 miles. 1977 CB550F
Re: 21 inch rear wheel cafe?
« Reply #80 on: January 06, 2009, 10:56:16 PM »
All talk and pictures... didn't you see the pictures? ::)

I measured the spokes for the 19inch honda with my eyeball and said to myself, "those are too long to lace up a rear drum to a 21 inch rim."
 Then i said,  "if I take a threading die to them and run the threads down as far as they need to be, then they'll work."

I'll have to use fat stainless spokes so the body is the size as the threaded shank. that way i don't have to worry about shallow threads. and I like stainless.

 Cut threads are a really, really bad idea, even on fat spokes.
 The originals are rolled thread which squeezes the metal and changes its grain structure making it stronger.
 I've seen thread rollers for bicycle spokes but not motorcycle ones
 Take some measurements and plug them into this
http://www.wheelpro.co.uk/spokecalc/
PJ
I fake being smart pretty good
'you can take my word for it or argue until you find out I'm right'

Offline Industrial Cafe

  • Like a well oiled
  • Really Old Timer ...
  • *******
  • Posts: 6,372
  • [Brian] I've got something to say about that!
    • Undead Asphalt
Re: 21 inch rear wheel cafe?
« Reply #81 on: January 06, 2009, 10:58:53 PM »
well maybe I'll roll them down at the shop, hows that? :P
everything I say is pure speculation and
I have no idea what I'm talking about  ._.


                                    Marla              .:71CB750:.CAFE

billybobobrain

  • Guest
Re: 21 inch rear wheel cafe?
« Reply #82 on: January 06, 2009, 11:03:06 PM »
I think  I'm sticking with the 18 incher.

Offline XN

  • Hot Shot
  • ***
  • Posts: 264
Re: 21 inch rear wheel cafe?
« Reply #83 on: January 06, 2009, 11:47:36 PM »
Just for a size measurement for you a 120/70-16 on a 3.25 inch rim measures about 5 inches at its widest point. Good luck on your quest!

Too bad the newer shadow's with the 21 inch fronts are 42 spokes...
78 Honda CB750K
02 Yamaha V-star 650
02 Honda VTX 1800

Offline brandon

  • Enthusiast
  • **
  • Posts: 120
Re: 21 inch rear wheel cafe?
« Reply #84 on: January 07, 2009, 01:36:58 AM »
quick photoshop for the OP:

I raked the front end slightly as well as extended the rear, then lowered the bike. Didn't feel like dicking around with the rear shock, but you get the idea...


Offline ProTeal55

  • Old Timer
  • ******
  • Posts: 4,887
  • Est1968.com
    • Joe's Barbershop Chicago
Re: 21 inch rear wheel cafe?
« Reply #85 on: January 07, 2009, 04:40:23 AM »
I know Big Dog Motorcycles uses a fat 21'' front wheel on most of their bikes now-a-days..
If I recall they are running a Avon Venom-X tires up front (and prob. out back as well).
When I had my 21'' on my old CB750 I ran the same tire (Venom-X) and had no issues with it.

I think a dual 21''ed cafe scoot will be a very cool ride.
I also like the look of dual 16'' with as fat a tire as you can cram on the bike, but to each project it's own.
Just please, whatever you do dont put a "cafe" sticker on the tank when all is said and done.
People will know what kinda bike it is without letting them know in such a tacky way..
Joe a.k.a ProTeal55 a.k.a JoeyCocks a.k.a Maker of Friends

billybobobrain

  • Guest
Re: 21 inch rear wheel cafe?
« Reply #86 on: January 07, 2009, 06:09:17 AM »
Just a thought wouldent you need more than 40 spokes on the rear so the wheel didnt distort under heavy throttle. You may need to have a new hub machined.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/CHROME-21-X-3-5-120-SPOKE-RIM-FOR-HARLEY-WHEEL_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQ_trksidZp3286Q2em20Q2el1116QQitemZ190256486412QQptZMotorcyclesQ5fPartsQ5fAccessories

21 x 3.5 120 spoke
« Last Edit: January 07, 2009, 06:17:35 AM by billybobobrain »

Offline Industrial Cafe

  • Like a well oiled
  • Really Old Timer ...
  • *******
  • Posts: 6,372
  • [Brian] I've got something to say about that!
    • Undead Asphalt
Re: 21 inch rear wheel cafe?
« Reply #87 on: January 07, 2009, 06:17:52 AM »

Quote
ProTeal-
Just please, whatever you do dont put a "cafe" sticker on the tank when all is said and done.
People will know what kinda bike it is without letting them know in such a tacky way..
OH GOD!
I saw Carpy do that a couple times... I wouldn't want that, but to each his own.

I don't even want Honda on the bike anywhere, I want to get some smooth covers for it.
   If I can't get smooth covers, I'd like to get some old finned ones that have cracked fins or are otherwise fuct up, and throw 'em on the lathe to shave off the fins ...and drill some holes in them. :o
The "holes" theme was accidental, I just started drilling a few holes. then my drill went crazy.  :-\
 
I can't think of a "cool guy hot rodder" name for it yet.
maybe I could paint it brown, put some crosses on it, and call it holy #$%*.

Quote
Brando-
quick photoshop for the OP:
Brando is way better at photochop than me. Looks cool!

Quote
BillyBobBrain
wouldn't you need more than 40 spokes on the rear
I could put 40 more holes in it real easy,(like the CR hub)
 but more than that would require a whole hub remake.



everything I say is pure speculation and
I have no idea what I'm talking about  ._.


                                    Marla              .:71CB750:.CAFE

Offline Industrial Cafe

  • Like a well oiled
  • Really Old Timer ...
  • *******
  • Posts: 6,372
  • [Brian] I've got something to say about that!
    • Undead Asphalt
Re: 21 inch rear wheel cafe?
« Reply #88 on: January 07, 2009, 06:27:28 AM »
Quote
Crazypj-
 Cut threads are a really, really bad idea, even on fat spokes.
 The originals are rolled thread which squeezes the metal and changes its grain structure making it stronger.
 I've seen thread rollers for bicycle spokes but not motorcycle ones
 Take some measurements and plug them into this
http://www.wheelpro.co.uk/spokecalc/
PJ
thanks for the link, It's just what i need.
everything I say is pure speculation and
I have no idea what I'm talking about  ._.


                                    Marla              .:71CB750:.CAFE

Offline fishhead

  • Hot Shot
  • ***
  • Posts: 597
  • Why don't you go.....Well, you know the rest.....
Re: 21 inch rear wheel cafe?
« Reply #89 on: January 07, 2009, 06:42:11 AM »
at this point you are still just all talk....

All talk and pictures... didn't you see the pictures? ::)


Ohhhhh.... Pictures too. :o
 Maybe spend less time talking about it and "picturing it" and more time getting it to your envisioned end result.
 I have doubts that it will get done(theres alot of talk) and if it does get done, it would be nothing more than a a non ridable "curiosity". Thats my opinion of the 21 inch wheel debauchery.
 Instead of "Cafe" tank stickers, maybe get some tank stickers made up that say "21 inch wheel debauchery"
Quote from:  Vanna White




Photobucket slide show (Fishhead Big Brakes)
http://s111.photobucket.com/albums/n130/dgfischer/Fishhead%20Big%20BRakes/?albumview=slideshow

Offline Industrial Cafe

  • Like a well oiled
  • Really Old Timer ...
  • *******
  • Posts: 6,372
  • [Brian] I've got something to say about that!
    • Undead Asphalt
Re: 21 inch rear wheel cafe?
« Reply #90 on: January 07, 2009, 06:47:09 AM »
HAHA YES!  Debauchery!

cause if you don't plan, and draw it out it never gets done.
it just stays in your head.
everything I say is pure speculation and
I have no idea what I'm talking about  ._.


                                    Marla              .:71CB750:.CAFE

Offline Industrial Cafe

  • Like a well oiled
  • Really Old Timer ...
  • *******
  • Posts: 6,372
  • [Brian] I've got something to say about that!
    • Undead Asphalt
Re: 21 inch rear wheel cafe?
« Reply #91 on: January 07, 2009, 06:53:34 AM »
additionally,
What if Chip Foose was told to give up his projects when he was drawing the concept up.
he wouldn't be where he is today, would he?

and YES, I am comparing myself to Foose.
I'm just younger and far better looking.
everything I say is pure speculation and
I have no idea what I'm talking about  ._.


                                    Marla              .:71CB750:.CAFE

Offline Geeto67

  • A grumpy
  • Old Timer
  • ******
  • Posts: 2,823
Re: 21 inch rear wheel cafe?
« Reply #92 on: January 07, 2009, 07:08:39 AM »
additionally,
What if Chip Foose was told to give up his projects when he was drawing the concept up.
he wouldn't be where he is today, would he?

and YES, I am comparing myself to Foose.
I'm just younger and far better looking.

the big difference is Foose actually builds cars, he doesn't spend 7 pages on message boards talking about how he is going to do it without taking one measurement or laying out a plan. Foose also does a lot of research and measurment (even when drawing) and doesn't talk out his ass...you sir are no chip foose.
Maintenance Matters Most

Offline Industrial Cafe

  • Like a well oiled
  • Really Old Timer ...
  • *******
  • Posts: 6,372
  • [Brian] I've got something to say about that!
    • Undead Asphalt
Re: 21 inch rear wheel cafe?
« Reply #93 on: January 07, 2009, 07:17:34 AM »
hahaha!
everything I say is pure speculation and
I have no idea what I'm talking about  ._.


                                    Marla              .:71CB750:.CAFE

Offline jeepurz

  • Enthusiast
  • **
  • Posts: 138
Re: 21 inch rear wheel cafe?
« Reply #94 on: January 07, 2009, 09:46:32 AM »
some of the hot shot builders say 21+23's are the new "fat tire" bikes, thank got im sick of fat tires. I think nortons ran 19's front and rear.  im staying hopefully 18 &18's, but thats just me. Im 3 over on braced swing. mine is 550 oil tank is fake and will house electricals.




Offline Industrial Cafe

  • Like a well oiled
  • Really Old Timer ...
  • *******
  • Posts: 6,372
  • [Brian] I've got something to say about that!
    • Undead Asphalt
Re: 21 inch rear wheel cafe?
« Reply #95 on: January 07, 2009, 09:56:02 AM »
man that thing looks good, i like the fake oil tank idea.

I was thinking, welding the brace tight to the swing arm like yours would look clean. and it does.

I did a half ass attempt at scaling the hub down.

the purpose of this post was to inspire myself, by getting input from other people.
It seems to have worked, and I think I have the concept strong in my head now.

Looks like I'll be riding on a pair of ferris wheels.
everything I say is pure speculation and
I have no idea what I'm talking about  ._.


                                    Marla              .:71CB750:.CAFE

eldar

  • Guest
Re: 21 inch rear wheel cafe?
« Reply #96 on: January 07, 2009, 10:19:18 AM »
You know, there seems to be a lot of good ideas for things,
When you start this, are you going to do more streamlining? I see you got smaller lights all around except the headlight. Have you thought about getting a smaller headlight at all?

Another option would be to do a custom oil tank that takes up less space or at least sits differently in the frame.

there has been a past thread on that. Maybe see if you can find it and there might be something that goes with your ideas.
« Last Edit: January 08, 2009, 07:36:08 AM by eldar, Master of the K8 Thunder! »

Offline Spikeybike

  • when planting C4 at your enemy's base make sure you don't use a
  • Really Old Timer ...
  • *******
  • Posts: 7,265
  • member #1150
Re: 21 inch rear wheel cafe?
« Reply #97 on: January 07, 2009, 10:44:57 AM »
when i was first building my ride , i got ALOT of "that'll look like #$%*" and "that will never work"   

for me, i loved it , i'm one of those guys that thinks "i'll show you"

 personally i dont really care for the big wheels, but thats just personal preferance       

eldar

  • Guest
Re: 21 inch rear wheel cafe?
« Reply #98 on: January 07, 2009, 10:49:06 AM »
Isnt that what building YOUR OWN bike is about? I mean you had/have that thing for spots and while I don't, I think I remember an old pic and it was pretty wild really(no pun intended? maybe!)

Offline Geeto67

  • A grumpy
  • Old Timer
  • ******
  • Posts: 2,823
Re: 21 inch rear wheel cafe?
« Reply #99 on: January 07, 2009, 11:40:40 AM »
I am not the only one saying it is a bad idea....if you go back and check you'll see that. As for whether I have tried it, no I have not laced a 21" front rim to a cb750 hub. I did have a 21" front rim bolted to the back of a cb750 roller so I could push it around the shop. Just by my eyeballing it I could see there were going to be considerable clearance issues with a stock frame, espically with suspension compression (remember just by sitting on the bike the ride height is 1/2" lower than parked) and the top of the rim/tire combo hitting the cross braces in the frame. I had no interest then to do it because it is an unsafe idea overall (oh and it looks stupid).

But let's tackle the obvious here - most 21" streetbike (aka harley) rims are at most 2.15 inches wide which is nowhere near the 2.75 you need for a 120 tire. At most you are maybe looking at a 80mm-90mm wide tire. Most dirtbike front widths are 1.6- 1.85 inches (and most dirtbike rims are 36 hole to boot). So now you have a really heavy bike on a really narrow contact patch that frictionally will not be able to support the lateral load of taking any kind of turn at speed.

Although Spin Werkes makes a 21" rim that is 3 and 3.50 inches wide - it is also $312 (there goes the $400 budget). So assuming you get a windfall and everything else is free you still need a 21" tire that will fit the rim. With a 3 inch rim you can use a 120-130, with a 3.50 in rim you can go as big as 150mm. Someone out there must make that tire because the rim is being made but I can gaurantee it will not be cheap. We have seen 200mm 21" tires in this post and those were a couple hundred $$$$. so his budget is blown.

I am not even going to comment on the 15" shocks and change in rake angle that is already going on on the bike, but to make the whole thing taller will bring any handling problems (speed wobbles maybe) right to the front. The taller you make a rimand tire the more leverage it has on the chassis and the contact patch. Vintage race bikes usually use an 18" front and rear, starting about the 1980s superbikes used a 16" and 17" rims respectivley. I could bore you all day with camber thrust and how you have now radically not just how the chassis responds to loads but what loads are actually being placed where but frankly you all have the internet and can search for yourselves and I really don't feel like investing much more into this thread. Start with tony Foale's site just so you know how a motorcyce tire handles:

http://www.tonyfoale.com/Articles/Tyres/TYRES.htm

Motorcycle rims are not like car rims. Without crunching the numbers as to what you are doing to the suspension geometry, center of gravity, weight distribution the bike could very well fall over the first time you lean it into a corner or nothing could happen - nobody here seems to know and the one guy who wants to do it is "eyeballing" it all the way.  

We have wasted 7 pages on this nonsense already, the dare has been laid out - you want to do it so hard then do it already - at least babyfood's first post was a pic of his actual project in progress.
Maintenance Matters Most