Author Topic: Clear fuel hose has air gaps  (Read 3205 times)

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Offline moduleum

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Clear fuel hose has air gaps
« on: February 08, 2009, 11:23:54 PM »
A few months back when I rode my K6 750 from Houston to Dallas and back, the motor kept cutting out sporadically.  I think the cause may be the fuel system.  I couldn't make the bike stall repeatedly, so I don't have much of a hypothesis at this point.  Luckily, every time it "stalled," I was on the highway and it would pick back up to normal after 10 or so seconds of sputtering/losing power and I'd be good to go for several hours.  This has happened at highway speeds and in stop and go traffic.

I've got a clear piece of tygon tubing running from my petcock to the carb header, so I can check the status of the fuel at any time.  I'm not sure if this is linked to the stalling issue, but every now and then I'll get a huge air gap between the petcock and the bottom of the fuel line (before it curves back up and goes into the carbs).  This isn't normal, right?  The only way I can see this happening is there's an air leak at the petcock somewhere.

At times, the void would get so big that bubbles would trickle up into the pre-carb fuel header.  I'm thinking that this may be the cause of the random sputting/losing power.  Do I need to rebuild my petcock and where would I get a kit?

Offline bwaller

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Re: Clear fuel hose has air gaps
« Reply #1 on: February 09, 2009, 04:07:10 AM »
If there are hoses on the carb vents check they are clear & not kinked???

Offline swan

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Re: Clear fuel hose has air gaps
« Reply #2 on: February 09, 2009, 04:20:41 AM »
Do you see an air bubble while the bike is idling? When at rest, the carbs will fill up causing your floats to rise and valves to close and there is no demand for fuel.

Based on your sporatic symptoms it could be one of your float valves sticking closed, not allowing fuel to a carb or carbs. When the fuel is burned off the empty carb(s) causes your engine to sputter/ stall.

Start by cleaning you carbs thoroughly.
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Offline cafe750

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Re: Clear fuel hose has air gaps
« Reply #3 on: February 09, 2009, 06:52:42 AM »
I'd check the vent in the filler cap...classic symptoms.... :)
"It's an old motorcycle, the wind is supposed to blow your head around, it's supposed to leak oil, the brakes should suck, and every now and then, it should scare you so bad you piss your pants."



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Offline Alan F.

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Re: Clear fuel hose has air gaps
« Reply #4 on: February 09, 2009, 07:14:42 AM »
Quote
(before it curves back up and goes into the carbs). 

I'm a little concerned with your fuel line routing.

I thought the routing on a K6 came out of the petcock as a single hose, then went to a 'tee' and split off into two lines routed to the carb inlet fittings.  Aren't these two lines supposed to run through the two holes in the carb mounting plate (the bracket that all four carbs are mounted to) and then downward to the carb inlets?  That way the fuel lines always have some gravitational assistance?  I know fuel will flow if the lines are routed otherwise, but there will almost always be some bubbles in the lines.


Offline moduleum

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Re: Clear fuel hose has air gaps
« Reply #5 on: February 13, 2009, 11:44:27 PM »
I'd check the vent in the filler cap...classic symptoms.... :)

Thanks for the replies guys.  I'm 8000 miles away right now, so it might be a month or so until I can get it diagnosed.

Do you mean the filler cap as in where you fill the tank up with gas?  I doubt it has ever been replaced.  Where can I get a new one and why would this allow air bubbles to migrate downwards through a full tank of gas and into the gas lines?

Offline TwoTired

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Re: Clear fuel hose has air gaps
« Reply #6 on: February 14, 2009, 01:55:16 AM »
I've got a clear piece of tygon tubing running from my petcock to the carb header, so I can check the status of the fuel at any time.  I'm not sure if this is linked to the stalling issue, but every now and then I'll get a huge air gap between the petcock and the bottom of the fuel line (before it curves back up and goes into the carbs).  This isn't normal, right?  The only way I can see this happening is there's an air leak at the petcock somewhere.

It's probably normal for your fuel tube routing and length, but not the way it came from Honda.

The tank to carb fuel flow is gravity fed.  So, the only pressure in the fuel line, comes from the fuel volume in the tank and the height difference between the carb's float valve and the highest level of fuel in the tank.  The difference in fluid height creates "Head pressure".  This head pressure gets lower as the fuel level decreases in the tank.

The carbs are vented and the float valves are at the top of the float chamber.  The fuel level in the carb's float bowl chamber is always lower than the float bowl valve tip and seat.  When the float valve opens, air can go back into the fuel line from the carb's bowl chamber, as fuel trickles into the carb float bowl chamber.

The stock fuel line routing allows these small bubbles to rise to the fuel tap and bubble up into tank, keeping the fuel line relatively clear of large bubbles.    Honda routed the lines so there was a constant "fall" of liquid along the entire length of the fuel line.  This allows the fuel to accumulate at the bottom of that small tube vessel and air to rise and occupy the top of it, where the fuel tap is. Bubbles can be trapped by long lines that loop down and back up to the carbs.  If the lines are long enough and the amount of air excessive, the force of the bubbles trying to rise back to the top of the fuel level surface in the tank rivals or exceeds the head pressure force attempting to let gravity feed fuel to the carbs.

The result is a stoppage or reduction of fuel flow to the carbs.  When the carb bowl level drops below that of the pilot jet tube, the pilot systems starves for fuel and the mixture leans out, causing loss of power.

Complicating the matter, is the saddle hump in the fuel tank, and the stand pipe, which is used before "reserve" is selected.  Fuel on the far side of the hump stays on that side, unless there is fore and aft motion of the fuel in the tank, which sloshes it over to the other side, where it can feed the fuel tap inlet.  Also, the head pressure into the stand pipe becomes lower as the fuel level in the tank approaches the height of the stand pipe.

The short of it is that your long loop of fuel line may well be causing your loss of power.

This assumes you have adhered to and addressed the normal tuneup/maintenance schedule for the bike.

Cheers,
Lloyd... (SOHC4 #11 Original Mail List)
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KingCustomCycles.com

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Re: Clear fuel hose has air gaps
« Reply #7 on: February 14, 2009, 02:14:21 AM »
I've got a clear piece of tygon tubing running from my petcock to the carb header, so I can check the status of the fuel at any time.  I'm not sure if this is linked to the stalling issue, but every now and then I'll get a huge air gap between the petcock and the bottom of the fuel line (before it curves back up and goes into the carbs).  This isn't normal, right?  The only way I can see this happening is there's an air leak at the petcock somewhere.

It's probably normal for your fuel tube routing and length, but not the way it came from Honda.

The tank to carb fuel flow is gravity fed.  So, the only pressure in the fuel line, comes from the fuel volume in the tank and the height difference between the carb's float valve and the highest level of fuel in the tank.  The difference in fluid height creates "Head pressure".  This head pressure gets lower as the fuel level decreases in the tank.

The carbs are vented and the float valves are at the top of the float chamber.  The fuel level in the carb's float bowl chamber is always lower than the float bowl valve tip and seat.  When the float valve opens, air can go back into the fuel line from the carb's bowl chamber, as fuel trickles into the carb float bowl chamber.

The stock fuel line routing allows these small bubbles to rise to the fuel tap and bubble up into tank, keeping the fuel line relatively clear of large bubbles.    Honda routed the lines so there was a constant "fall" of liquid along the entire length of the fuel line.  This allows the fuel to accumulate at the bottom of that small tube vessel and air to rise and occupy the top of it, where the fuel tap is. Bubbles can be trapped by long lines that loop down and back up to the carbs.  If the lines are long enough and the amount of air excessive, the force of the bubbles trying to rise back to the top of the fuel level surface in the tank rivals or exceeds the head pressure force attempting to let gravity feed fuel to the carbs.

The result is a stoppage or reduction of fuel flow to the carbs.  When the carb bowl level drops below that of the pilot jet tube, the pilot systems starves for fuel and the mixture leans out, causing loss of power.

Complicating the matter, is the saddle hump in the fuel tank, and the stand pipe, which is used before "reserve" is selected.  Fuel on the far side of the hump stays on that side, unless there is fore and aft motion of the fuel in the tank, which sloshes it over to the other side, where it can feed the fuel tap inlet.  Also, the head pressure into the stand pipe becomes lower as the fuel level in the tank approaches the height of the stand pipe.

The short of it is that your long loop of fuel line may well be causing your loss of power.

This assumes you have adhered to and addressed the normal tuneup/maintenance schedule for the bike.

Cheers,

To summarize, you need more head or a straighter hose.   ::)
« Last Edit: February 14, 2009, 02:18:00 AM by KingCustomCycles.com »