Topic: Beating a dead horse: Clutch choices for late-model baskets

[JLeather]

So, I searched and read all I could in the old threads.  I am building a stout 836 with a late bottom end; I think it was a K7 or K8.  This means it's got the double-thickness steel disc in the middle of it.

For starters, is anyone out there successfully running an APE or Barnett kit on the later clutch basket?  Seems the concensus is that removing the thicker steel plate in the middle to run the barnett or APE kits results in a notchy clutch.  BUT, I wanted to replace all my steels and that double-thickness one is like 50 bucks.  Does that one get warped as easily as the thinner ones or am I probably ok re-running that one after a quick sandblast or something?

I was leaning towards new OEM honda frictions and steels (except the double one) with Barnett springs.  I'd like to use the APE kit, though, if I can get some feedback from some who are running it now.  Can I run the APE kit and keep the double-thick center steel?  Can i run the Barnett kit and keep the thicker center steel?

[scondon]

I'm running a Barnett clutch and have kept the center steel. Joeb is running the APE clutch and has pitched the center steel(I think). In the end, I think it all comes down to stack height and keeping it the same as the stock set i.e. keeping or pitching the center steel in order to maintain stock stack height.

I've also got a bike running stock plates with H/D springs. I like the Barnett pack a bit better for high horsepower engines.

[cxtecs]

Keeping the stack stock height makes sense. I'm also messing with my clutch in my K8, but it looks like I'm missing a plate and friction disc (the doubled-up plate and the friction disc for the wide slot).  This was the clutch pack that was on the bike when I bought it -I don't know if it is stock. 

I have an APE clutch ready to put in.  Whichever stack I lay in the basket (clutch -outer) though, they both come up to the same height (just up to the top of the narrow slot -nothing sits in the wide slot).

Before my engine teardown this winter, I remember my clutch was enganging late (would only catch when the clutch lever was almost all the way out.  I thought it might just need adjustment, but my adjustment attempts never fixed the problem. However, when the clutch was engaged, it did grab without any slippage.  Would a missing plate cause the late engagement?

I've already searched the forums for a while yesterday, and the day before, but have been unable to find any info yet on whether or not I have a problem or missing pieces.  My search strings included "clutch missing plate" and "clutch APE".  Today, I started searching for just "clutch" to see what I find.  But I thought I could request a few more details on this post since it seemed the closest to my problem so far.

[cxtecs]

Ok, did quite a bit of reading, and also went out the garage to get some measurements.  From what I've read, a new APE clutch kit does not come with the Friction Disc B (wide tang).  I'm not sure if that means it can be eliminated from the stack or if APE intended the buyer to use the original Disc B.

On my previous clutch set up, I had 7 discs and 6 plates with springs measuring at 35.3-35.5mm.  No double plate and no Disc B were present, and this brought the stack to the edge of the narrow slots of the basket -nothing sat in the wide slot.

My APE kit comes with two extra plates and two extra discs.  When all of this is slid in, the stack, once again, only comes up to the the edge of the narrow slots of the basket (the friction discs are thinner)-nothing sits in the wide slot.  The springs measure in at 36.7-37.0mm.

So, do I need to start looking for a Friction Disc B replacement?  Is this disc necessary for proper clutch operation?  Again, my clutch grabbed fine before the tear-down, but it engaged late when releasing the lever.

[eurban]

The clutch center/basket on the later bikes is deeper, but not deep enough to allow the APE kit to be used and still retain the double ring center steel.  Also as mentioned, there is a wider tanged friction disc B that is designed to fit into the wider area at the end of the basket fingers.  IMO the APE clutch kit (inspite of what APE says) is not compatible with the later style clutches.  For a brief period I ran the APE setup in my 78k by ditching the double ring steel and replacing it with single stock plate (which I had to supply).  The results were notchy operation with strange intermittent slipping / chattering usually occurring after a cold start. I can't imagine that there is enough room to run the friction disc B (and the required steel) in addition to the  complete extra plate APE setup but I did not try removing the outermost APE disc and replacing it with the wide tanged (disc B) stocker.  Might work but I can pretty much guarantee you that this is not what APE had in mind. My 836 kitted motor is quite happy with stock steels and frictions with heavy duty springs.  I would suggest going the "stock with heavy springs" setup and not worrying about replacing the double thick plate.