Author Topic: Bike introduction with a problem  (Read 1688 times)

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Offline dhonda

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Bike introduction with a problem
« on: February 26, 2009, 06:47:10 PM »
Alright, this post will serve as an introduction for my bike and also a plea for help/ guidance with my problem.

This bike was originally purchased brand new by my father in 1976 and was infrequently ridden until around 1985 (when I was born) when it was stashed in our garage where it accumulated a lot of dust and became a storage shelf.  I was cleaning the garage a few years ago and stumbled upon it and decided that it had laid dormant for long enough. Sadly the bike had been left to sit with a full tank of gas and topped off with oil, so I changed out the oil and fuel and managed to get the thing to start up and run roughly. When I went off to college the bike was again left to accumulate dust in the garage until this year where I have found more time to work on it. While I was away it seems that the bike developed an unusual electrical issue where all of the electrical systems work (lights, horn, starter) when I turn the key to accessory but when I turn the key to ignition, all electrical systems shut down.
To troubleshoot this so far I've:
Replaced the key tumbler
Checked the continuity between the battery and the coil

So, my question is; Is there an electrical system that only engages when the key is turned to ignition?

Here are some pictures:
http://gallery.sohc4.net/main.php?g2_itemId=307904

Offline GammaFlat

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Re: Bike introduction with a problem
« Reply #1 on: February 26, 2009, 07:06:58 PM »
It is absolutely hopeless.  The bike looks terrible.  It's an awful color.  Too many miles.  Where are you and when can I take this scrap off your hands? 

Alright, I'll 'fess up now.  It looks just like mine - only lots better.  Same year, same color.  What a great bike you have there.  Replace all fuses.  I recently had one fail that was at least some due to age I think.  I have not heard of a fuse intermittently failing but again, it's easy and cheap and eliminates some problems.  There's some HUGE talent on this forum that will have good ideas for you.  It certainly sounds like the ignition switch or wiring to it. 

I'm right in the middle of replacing my voltage regulator (solid state), rectifier (updated), fuse box (blade fuse box), side covers, seat and some electrical connectors.  Yours does not look like it needs any of that.  I am soooo jealous.   

« Last Edit: February 26, 2009, 07:15:10 PM by GammaFlat »
K6
K7 
Suzuki GN400 - Ignition fixed!
03 KLR650 - Doesn't do anything very well but.. well.. does everything.

Offline bender01

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Re: Bike introduction with a problem
« Reply #2 on: February 26, 2009, 07:12:38 PM »
I wouldnt be suprised if it didnt go anywhere. I think green ones are grounds. Ill trade you a great running 73 350f for it. its red too.
75 550 K1
74 750 K4
1968 450 K1 Super Sport
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So, the strategy is to lie to people you are asking for help?

I think I'll be busy going for a ride.

Good luck!
Two Tired Quote !

Offline DollarBill

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Re: Bike introduction with a problem
« Reply #3 on: February 26, 2009, 07:15:26 PM »
Wow!  It survived pretty well for being used as a shelf.  It's gorgeous....hope you don't plan to chop it up like I am mine.  The next CB I get I want to do a complete restore.  Plus your has family history which makes it an heirloom.  Good luck with it!
1975 CB750F Project Yellow Jacket - CBR600rr Swinger GSXR 600 Forks
1955 BMW R25/3, 1966 Honda CA160, 1975 CB400f, 1975 CB550, 1976 CB550

Offline Bodi

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Re: Bike introduction with a problem
« Reply #4 on: February 26, 2009, 07:32:37 PM »
First, sweet bike!
Now - there's no "accessory" position on the normal key switch. There's OFF - ON - PARK.
Off is obvious.
On is for riding, all circuits are powered.
Park turns the tail light on (and some country's bikes also have an extra small clear bulb inside the headlight that throws a feeble light from the front).
The wire in your picture is just an extra ground, you can use it for a three wire signal flasher if desired. I've never seen it used for anything from the factory.
Thera are a few general steps to getting a long-stored bike like this to go:
- clean ALL the connectors in the wiring harness. Basically remove the gas tank and headlight, and unplug each bullet and gently clean the male and female ends with alcohol (if pretty clean already) or brasso (if pretty grungy, but get the brasso off afterward with alcohol). The smear a bit of dielectric grease on each end and reconnect. Clean the fuseholder contacts and the ends of the fuses. Clean the multi-wire connector block as well, each spade terminal can be cleaned much like the bullets. There may be some connections beneath the left side engine cover, going to the alternator and the neutral switch. This is worth checking, those alternator wire connections are infamous for overheating and failing because they became dirty and corroded. (disconnect the battery before dicking around with the wiring)
- get some contact cleaner spray and clean the ignition switch contacts - shoot some spray into the switch block end of the assembly and then switch it on and off a few dozen times.
- replace the battery. it's junk after 30 years.
- drain the gas tank, you can add the ancient fuel to a car tank if you're sure it's unleaded but probably toss it out (how? I dunno... I like to burn the stuff off but that does tend to attract sireny fire trucks when I do). Old gas will not burn properly. Open the carb drain screws and see what comes out. You should fill and drain all the bowls a few times with clean gas before attempting to start the bike, removing the bowls and seeing the condition in there is a great idea but also a pain in the butt. I expect to remove the carb stack and do some major goop removal when reviving old bikes though - that is, as a rule, unavoidable. With the gas tank empty, have a look inside with a flashlight (not a good place to use a flame for light) to check for rust. Water tends to collect at the very bottom, and can severely rust the metal. Some rust spots is OK, but if you see cancerous patches at the bottom, be careful as the metal may be tissue thin or you might have only paint holding the fuel in.
- check the air filter. Bugs and mice like to eat the paper and or live in there.
- change oil. drain the tank and sump, fill tank with good new motorcycle oil. synthetic is best, in my opinion, but any decent bike oil will be fine. Avoid car engine oils.
- check the spark plugs. They should be fairly clean if the bike is going to start without a leg-killing kick marathon. Check the ignition works by taking one plug out either #1 (left) or #4 (right) and holding it against the engine metal while kicking over - ignition and kill switches on. You should see a fat blue spark. Reinstall the plug and repeat with either #2 or #3 - inside left and right. Don't take all the wires off and check one for spark - the system sparks through two plugs with each (of two) coil so you need one in to check that coil. #1 and #4 are on one coil and #2 and #3 are on the other coil.

Once you have a spark, fresh oil,  and gas in the carbs... try and start it. If it runs at all, sweet! If it actually idles fairly well and revs when you crank the throttle... wow!
Now you have to check a few things before trying to ride.
#1 - brakes - pretty weak if you take your first test ride and crash immediately or go straight into traffic and get killed because there's no brakes. The front disk will probably be seized, it's pretty easy to service though. The rear brake is probably fine but may be grabby from the drum rusting up a bit.
#2 - tires. You need new tires. It doesn't matter if they look new, 30 year old tires are 25 years past being usable. For a quick spin around the block you can risk them but you may end up with the bike sliding out under because of the rock hard slippery tires.

Offline dhonda

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Re: Bike introduction with a problem
« Reply #5 on: February 26, 2009, 09:34:41 PM »
Thanks for the feed back. As soon as I find some free time I'll start the clean up of the connection points. I've already cleaned out the pots on the carb (they were crusted up with old gas) and I've given them a rebuild (new gaskets and jets), I've replaced the battery, I've run new gas through the carbs, I've inspected the gas tank for rust and disposed of the old gas and I also have new tires waiting to be put on and a new oil filter. I've really got some direction on the project now, I'll post with updates as they develop.

Offline bryanj

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Re: Bike introduction with a problem
« Reply #6 on: February 26, 2009, 09:51:48 PM »
OK
(1) there is no "Acessory" position its Off: On: Park lights

(2) The green goes nowhere unless youhave a 3 prong flasher can
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Offline snowfighter2

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Re: Bike introduction with a problem
« Reply #7 on: February 26, 2009, 10:11:03 PM »
welcome aboard! That is a sweet looking bike, looks like it just rolled out of a time capsule. I wish my '75 looked half as good. There are a lot of experienced guys on this website. you picked the right place to ask questions.
Andrew
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Offline Frankencake

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Re: Bike introduction with a problem
« Reply #8 on: February 27, 2009, 06:46:25 AM »
Quote "It is absolutely hopeless.  The bike looks terrible.  It's an awful color.  Too many miles.  Where are you and when can I take this scrap off your hands?"
That is some funny shizznatz right there!  That's the line that I like to use on grannies and punk kids.  "You don't actually want to keep that, do you?" or  "Nah, I'll probably just scrap it.  It's junk to me and most other people." 
"Sure, if you don't want that bike in your backyard, I guess I'll take it."  "I'll probably just scrap it......"

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Offline goon 1492

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Re: Bike introduction with a problem
« Reply #9 on: February 27, 2009, 09:38:20 AM »
Man nice bike and almost like insest keep it in the family  ;D ;D
+1 on the cleaning the connectors, I too have a 750 k6 was not a purdy as yours but it was a storage monster for about 15yrs. I started right out with cleaning the carbs first thing and then new battery, starter only worked after it rained(I figure thats in the relay it doesn't look healthy) I went through all the connectors but didn't use dilecrtic at the time bit I am going to go back and do it later. I had my front left trun signal that would light up and then go out until I shook the bird's nest in the headlight bucket, fixed that. Amazingly my turn signal beeper starting working again after replacing the flasher, but I think I need an electric one because its kinda slow at idle but still works.....and then and then and then.....
Welcome to the best place for help to get all the gremlins out of the bike ;D ;D ;D
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Offline dhonda

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Re: Bike introduction with a problem
« Reply #10 on: March 01, 2009, 07:07:55 AM »
I've cleaned the electrical connectors as per your advise and I have continuity leading up the the coil from the battery. I pulled on of the spark plugs and left it connected to the coil next to the engine to check for spark. When I cranked it over there was no spark so I think that either my coil is bad, or my spark plug leads/ boots are not right. I'm thinking that I should try just replacing the boots first (replace the least expensive first) and if that doesn't work then looking for a new coil. So, do I need to order a special kind of spark plug boot? What are some recommendations for coils?

Offline Don R

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Re: Bike introduction with a problem
« Reply #11 on: March 01, 2009, 12:41:30 PM »
Check the points, if they are corroded or are not making contact they won't make a spark. You can put a test light on them and turn the engine over slowly when the points make contact the light should go out. Mine were not closing and needed adjustment. Maybe why the bike was parked years ago.
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