Author Topic: Dangers of Global Warming.  (Read 13031 times)

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Offline Retro Rocket

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Re: Dangers of Global Warming.
« Reply #150 on: April 23, 2009, 05:07:09 AM »
Quote
Deep thought for today:
If I had a solar cell on my roof that was powerful enough to run my refrigerator, then my milk would be hot on cold cloudy days, but it would be cold on hot sunny days.   Shocked

Proper solar systems run banks of batteries, so there is plenty of power when its night or cloudy, it doesn't have to be sunny all the time to run a solar system.

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Offline mlinder

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Re: Dangers of Global Warming.
« Reply #151 on: April 23, 2009, 07:11:26 AM »
And who doesn't understand floating ice?


They don't know who they are, but it is obvious to those who see them.

Are you implying I don't understand the properites of water in it's various states...?
En Garde!
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Offline 333

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Re: Dangers of Global Warming.
« Reply #152 on: April 23, 2009, 07:24:04 AM »
So, are the properties of water different in Virginia than California?
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Offline mlinder

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Re: Dangers of Global Warming.
« Reply #153 on: April 23, 2009, 07:28:18 AM »
So, are the properties of water different in Virginia than California?

Indeed, it's worth less, costs more, puddles in shallower configurations, and turns to steam at lower tempuratures!
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Markcb750

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Re: Dangers of Global Warming.
« Reply #154 on: April 23, 2009, 08:49:04 AM »
And who doesn't understand floating ice?


They don't know who they are, but it is obvious to those who see them.

Are you implying I don't understand the properites of water in it's various states...?
En Garde!

No, but trying not to snicker too much at some here that have weighed in a little light on background...

Touche... :D


Offline mlinder

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Re: Dangers of Global Warming.
« Reply #155 on: April 23, 2009, 09:10:59 AM »
And who doesn't understand floating ice?


They don't know who they are, but it is obvious to those who see them.

Are you implying I don't understand the properites of water in it's various states...?
En Garde!

No, but trying not to snicker too much at some here that have weighed in a little light on background...

Touche... :D



Either a clever feint, or an admission of weakness... Which is it, scoundrel?
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Offline goon 1492

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Re: Dangers of Global Warming.
« Reply #156 on: April 23, 2009, 09:27:27 AM »
Ice won't float in a glass full of whiskey  ;)

Check it out build a solar powered generator for under 300 smackers.

http://planetgreen.discovery.com/tech-transport/build-solar-power-generator.html
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We are spirits going thru a human experience....

Markcb750

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Re: Dangers of Global Warming.
« Reply #157 on: April 23, 2009, 03:49:36 PM »
And who doesn't understand floating ice?


They don't know who they are, but it is obvious to those who see them.

Are you implying I don't understand the properites of water in it's various states...?
En Garde!

No, but trying not to snicker too much at some here that have weighed in a little light on background...

Touche... :D



Either a clever feint, or an admission of weakness... Which is it, scoundrel?

F**k who knows, simply put I understand Ice, you seem to, anything you want me to explain I will through example or reference. 


Seems like you doubt your own knowledge or you would have known my snide remarks where not directed at you...methinks.


Offline mlinder

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Re: Dangers of Global Warming.
« Reply #158 on: April 23, 2009, 03:57:15 PM »
And who doesn't understand floating ice?


They don't know who they are, but it is obvious to those who see them.

Are you implying I don't understand the properites of water in it's various states...?
En Garde!

No, but trying not to snicker too much at some here that have weighed in a little light on background...

Touche... :D



Either a clever feint, or an admission of weakness... Which is it, scoundrel?

F**k who knows, simply put I understand Ice, you seem to, anything you want me to explain I will through example or reference. 


Seems like you doubt your own knowledge or you would have known my snide remarks where not directed at you...methinks.


You have insulted my honor! Now you must pay!

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Markcb750

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Re: Dangers of Global Warming.
« Reply #159 on: April 23, 2009, 04:05:48 PM »
"Education is no substitute for intelligence. That elusive quality is defined only in part by puzzle-solving ability. It is in the creation of new puzzles reflecting what your sense report that you round out the definition"

- Mentat Text One




Offline mlinder

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Re: Dangers of Global Warming.
« Reply #160 on: April 23, 2009, 04:35:05 PM »
Nice!

I gotta go look up more awesome herbert quotes.
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Markcb750

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Re: Dangers of Global Warming.
« Reply #161 on: April 23, 2009, 04:53:48 PM »

Not much of a fan past God Emperor of Dune... but the Herbert's continuing Middle Eastern mythologies is one of the Greats !

Markcb750

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Re: Dangers of Global Warming.
« Reply #162 on: April 23, 2009, 05:19:03 PM »
    * The thing the ecologically illiterate don't realize about an ecosystem is that it's a system. A system! A system maintains a certain fluid stability that can be destroyed by a misstep in just one niche. A system has order, a flowing from point to point. If something dams the flow, order collapses. The untrained miss the collapse until too late. That's why the highest function of ecology is the understanding of consequences.
         
o Kynes in "Appendix I: The Ecology of Dune"


Herbert knew how Ice & water interact...

Offline mlinder

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Re: Dangers of Global Warming.
« Reply #163 on: April 23, 2009, 05:23:57 PM »
He knew all sorts of stuff!
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Offline BeSeeingYou

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Re: Dangers of Global Warming.
« Reply #164 on: April 23, 2009, 07:56:07 PM »
I think the new politically correct term is 'Global Climate Change', 333, because 'Warming' was too... difficult... to prove. They needed to go with something a bit more ambiguous. Easier to manipulate data to support something that is nearly unidentifiable. Words are funny. You ever wonder why there's no antonym for 'androgynous'? Think about it a second. Weird #$%*, language is.

Not that I disagree that cleaning things up a bit would be nice.

I think the reason for the term Global Climate Change really has nothing to do with being politcally correct.  It is just more accurate.  Some places will get warmer and some places will get colder.  It is so easy for the naysayers to try and debunk "Global Warming" because of some short term cold snap in one location or another.  We had a colder than normal January/February and the local conservative talk show punditry could not stop crowing about how this was evidence that   Global Warming was a hoax.  Now we have been having weather much warmer than usual and they seem to be silent  about it all of a sudden.  All I know is that the winters have become very odd and unpredictable here in Minnesota the last 10 years or so and the summers hotter.  Something is happening.
« Last Edit: April 23, 2009, 09:03:17 PM by srust58 »

Offline mlinder

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Re: Dangers of Global Warming.
« Reply #165 on: April 23, 2009, 08:16:00 PM »
I was kinda joking.

My point was, it's easier to 'prove' something as ambiguous as 'change'. Data can be mined easily to prove 'change'. Any fluctuation, normal or not, can be identified as 'change' with the right working. When you make a statement that something is getting 'warmer', it's a lot harder. You have to show that #$%* is actually getting warmer. That means there has to be a bunch of data that shows current temperatures are, in fact, warmer than at a previous time, in a majority of places, for a majority of time.

Very specific. They couldn't do that. So they switched to 'change', because it's easy.

I'm going to form a commitee to study my local climate change that happens every noon to every midnight. It certainly changes between those two times. I blame the car companies.
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Offline TwoTired

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Re: Dangers of Global Warming.
« Reply #166 on: April 24, 2009, 12:22:56 AM »
Premise:  - GLOBAL WARMING IS A FACT, BACKED BY THE SCIENTIFIC COMMUNITY

Bull. We all know that the media today borders criminal on their bias views. They choose not to report the other side, hundreds of global expert scholars, including people from Harvard and MIT, debunk the myth.

The best example of this is the article written by the founder of the weather channel. He is amazed as I am of the lack of objectivity and one sided opinions throughout the process.

THIS IS FROM THE FOUNDER OF THE WEATHER CHANNEL, JOHN COLEMAN. THESE ARE HIS WORDS, NOT OURS! :

COMMENTS ABOUT GLOBAL WARMING
By John Coleman

It is the greatest scam in history. I am amazed, appalled and highly offended by it. Global Warming; It is a SCAM.

Some dastardly scientists with environmental and political motives manipulated long term scientific data back in the late 1990's to create an allusion of rapid global warming. Other scientists of the same environmental wacko type jumped into the circle to support and broaden the "research" to further enhance the totally slanted, bogus global warming claims. Their friends in government steered huge research grants their way to keep the movement going. Soon they claimed to be a consensus.

Environmental extremist, notable politicians among them then teamed up with movie, media and other liberal, environmentalist journalists to create this wild "scientific" scenario of the civilization threatening environmental consequences from Global Warming unless we adhere to their radical agenda.

Now their ridicules manipulated science has been accepted as fact and become a cornerstone issue for CNN, CBS, NBC, the Democratic Political Party, the Governor of California, school teachers and, in many cases, well informed but very gullible environmental conscientious citizens. Only one reporter at ABC has been allowed to counter the Global Warming frenzy with one 15 minutes documentary segment.

I do not oppose environmentalism. I do not oppose the political positions of either party.

However, Global Warming, i.e. Climate Change, is not about environmentalism or politics. It is not a religion. It is not something you "believe in." It is science; the science of meteorology. This is my field of life-long expertise. And I am telling you Global Warming is a nonevent, a manufactured crisis and a total scam. I say this knowing you probably won't believe me, a mere TV weatherman, challenging a Nobel Prize, Academy Award and Emmy Award winning former Vice President of United States. So be it.

I suspect you might like to say to me, "John, look the research that supports the case for global warming was done by research scientists; people with PH D's in Meteorology. They are employed by major universities and important research institutions. Their work has been reviewed by other scientists with PH D's. They have to know a lot more about it than you do. Come on, John, get with it. The experts say our pollution has created an strong and increasing greenhouse effect and a rapid, out of control global warming is underway that will sky rocket temperatures, destroy agriculture, melt the ice caps, flood the coastlines and end life as we know it. How can you dissent from this crisis? You must be a bit nutty.

Allow me, please, to explain how I think this all came about. Our universities have become somewhat isolated from the rest of us. There is a culture and attitudes and values and pressures on campus that are very different. I know this group well. My father and my older brother were both PHD-University types. I was raised in the university culture. Any person who spends a decade at a university obtaining a PHD in Meteorology and become a research scientist, more likely than not, becomes a part of that single minded culture. They all look askance at the rest of us, certain of their superiority. They respect government and disrespect business, particularly big business. They are environmentalists above all else.

And, there is something else. These scientists know that if they do research and results are in no way alarming, their research will gather dust on the shelf and their research careers will languish. But if they do research that sounds alarms, they will become well known and respected and receive scholarly awards and, very importantly, more research dollars will come flooding their way.

So when these researchers did climate change studies in the late 90's they were eager to produce findings that would be important and be widely noticed and trigger more research funding. It was easy for them to manipulate the data to come up with the results they wanted to make headlines and at the same time drive their environmental agendas. Then their like minded PHD colleagues reviewed their work and hastened to endorse it without question.

There were a few who didn't fit the mold. They did ask questions and raised objections. They did research with contradictory results. The environmental elitists berated them brushed their studies aside.

I have learned since the Ice Age is coming scare in the 1970's to always be a skeptic about research. In the case of global warming, I didn't accept media accounts. Instead I read dozens of the scientific papers. I have talked with numerous scientists. I have studied. I have thought about it. I know I am correct when I assure you there is no run away climate change. The impact of humans on climate is not catastrophic. Our planet is not in peril. It is all a scam, the result of bad science.

I am not alone in this assessment. There are hundreds of other meteorologists, many of them PH D's, who are as certain as I am that this global warming frenzy is based on bad science and is not valid.

I am incensed by the incredible media glamor, the politically correct silliness and rude dismal of counter arguments by the high priest of Global Warming.

In time, a decade or two, the outrageous scam will be obvious. As the temperature rises, polar ice cap melting, coastal flooding and super storm pattern all fail to occur as predicted everyone will come to realize we have been duped.

The sky is not falling. And, natural cycles and drifts in climate are as much if not more responsible for any climate changes underway.

I strongly believe that the next twenty years are equally as likely to see a cooling trend as they are to see a warming trend.

(Above excerpted from:  http://www.thepatriot.org/GLOBAL_WARMING.php  )

"Global Warming/ Global Climate Change" is about making money off the populace.  The more people that can be duped into this scam, the less personal wealth will be retained by "ordinary" people who can be made to feel guilty about being a carbon based life form.  What a marketing and sales job, getting them to pay pro-rata on the CO2 they produce, and can't live without producing it.  This is a better scam than the drug pushers.  They, at least, have to first get you enough product to become dependent on it, then fleece you out of every part of your life.  With the "Global Warming/ Global Climate Change" scam, the very fact you exist is enough to incur fees (in their end game).  Of course, if you happen to be "in" on the scam, it's a pretty sweet deal, having or forcing people to support you simply because they exist.
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Offline Retro Rocket

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Re: Dangers of Global Warming.
« Reply #167 on: April 24, 2009, 02:19:28 AM »
I think you like the sound of your own voice, and you are entitled to your opinion because thats all it is. What would be your explanation to changes in climate that are happening in OTHER parts of the world, yes the planet goes through cycles, this is a fact, the other fact that is glaringly obvious to me is that even if the climate differentials we are experiencing at the moment were part of a bigger picture you wouldn't accept it until you were sitting in your lounge with your feet in whatever ocean it is nearest you. There is definitely a possibility there is something happening and it is more obvious here in Australia because we are mainly a coastal community. Our tides have been rising steadily over the past 10+ years and i know this as FACT as i live at the end of a small peninsula that is currently being rebuilt because the tides now come over the walls and into the park on a regular basis. Our average ocean temps are up over 1 degree and you may say "thats not much" but it is systematically killing the biggest reef system in the world. Call it what you will but something IS happening and i think you should get out a bit more and look instead of reading and then tell us what you think is really happening. All this "smoke and mirrors" crap is just that, paranoid delusional rubbish. Get off the conspiracy band wagon and offer some theory as to what you think is actually happening. In Australia we have had, in the last 10 years, more record weather events than any other time in our history, our "Island" is ancient and we have some of the oldest land structures in the world, untouched because of its remoteness, and through every survey done so far the changes that are happening here have happened before but at a much slower rate. You give this "change" absolutely no chance of happening, and i hope you are right, but i can't say 100% that it is happening and you CAN'T say it isn't. I waste my breath once again.... ???

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Offline Demon67

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Re: Dangers of Global Warming.
« Reply #168 on: April 24, 2009, 04:08:51 AM »
I don't know about Australia, RR, but here it looks like things are about a three weeks to a month ahead of where they should be, the temp averages about 10C- 50 F around here at this time usually, today 19C-68F, tomorrow warmer, 21C I think and yes I know that's well within the bounds of temp swings, but it looks like I'm planting Onions, Garlic, Shallots this weekend, roughly a month early, I'm OK with that I'm getting old and don't resist the cold as well as I used to and am kind of hoping that our winters will get warmer, but it feels a bit unnatural, what it does for you guys at the warm end of the spectrum if your hot weather persist for a month longer I'm not to sure but it can't be too good. As far as cleaning up the pollution and the environment I'm not sure how anyone can argue against it, from my perspective the cleaner the air the less I have to use that damm Puffer and the easier it it is to breathe, I know I didn't sign on to being polluted out of existence and am more than slightly pissed about those who say it's the price of progress or profit. Who's progress, Who's profit not mine for Godamm sure.
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Markcb750

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Re: Dangers of Global Warming.
« Reply #169 on: April 24, 2009, 04:20:26 AM »
Isolating trends from data is difficult.  Data from short term observations can be miss interpreted as a trend.  The theory of "what" physical event underlies a trend can be wrong.  This is why Science subjects all  theories proposed by scientists to ongoing review by other scientists.  This leads to where we are; a society dominated by technology.  It is not Ideal, but it does keep 6.5 Billions of us occupied to some degree.


The Politicization of a science issue is inevitable, particularly when that issue has the potential to change the flow of money.   To presume that it should not is naive, or due to conflicting information provided to people from individuals and groups with conflicting agendas and objectives. Kind of like the science of tobacco presented prior to the Surgeon Generals report...

As some of my fellow posters have demonstrated, some confusion of the issues can be due to a lack of skill to understand the data presented. Again not unexpected, and who knows one of them may have a better theory, unlikely, but possible.  

It is up to us as individuals to know and understand the source of authority, I am very skeptical of proclaimed authority, one scientist telling 100 scientist they are wrong needs to provide extraordinary proof, proof beyond indignant verbosity.

 ::)

Mark

Offline mlinder

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Re: Dangers of Global Warming.
« Reply #170 on: April 24, 2009, 07:08:04 AM »
Thanks, Mark.

I tried to expound on this issue earlier.
100 or 200 years is such an insignificant period of time in which to attempt to prove or disprove anything happening out of the 'ordinary' as to be useless.
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Offline mlinder

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Re: Dangers of Global Warming.
« Reply #171 on: April 24, 2009, 09:13:40 AM »
Lets do an experiment. Lets pretend these numbers represent temperatures over the years.


Does this look like change?


56655454556565545676


It should.

The last 1/4 of the numbers shows a change in comparison to the first 3/4's.

Lets us pretend those 20 digits represent the last 200 years of this worlds climate. We can see that in this pretend data sample, things are warming up a bit, and there is a larger percentage of fluctuations over the last 50 years than the previous 150 years. Obviously, this pretend data shows pretend global climate change.

However, lets take a look at it in comparison to a longer pretend timeline, of about eight thousand years...

6776787677678876787767765567677766556765566556776776656566764554646776787677678876787743444564355454566776787677678876787745654554634454666454644555454566545566554565566554545565655456765545456654
2334343323344323334332243343223433443323322433432234334433234554645543343444564355454566545566554565344544345545655433445665545455656554567667765567677766556765455464554334344456434332234434433233
5665545455656554567656655677677665656676677678755454566545566554565776787677678876787745665455665545654554645543343444564334454434554565543344322433432234334433234332234434433233433256655677677665
4566545566554565454334344456435545467656655677677665656665567677766556765564556655455665545653445443434334433233224338876787745544433234554645544455545456654677678767767887678776776787745665455665
6776787677678876787767765567677766556765566556776776656566764554646776787677678876787745545456654556655456567767876776788767877456545546344546664546445554545665455665545655665545455656554567655454
2334343554545665455665545653343223433443323322433432234334433234554645543343444564355454566545566554565344544345545655433445665545455656554567667765567677766556765455464554334344456434332234434433
5665545455656554567656655677677665656676677678767767887678774554645543655454566545566554565678774566545566554565455464554334344456433445443455456554334432243343223433443323433223443443323343325665
4566545566554565454334344456435545467656655677677665656665567677766556765564556655455665545653445443434554545665455665545657877455444332345546455444555454566545546344546664546456655454556565545676



Can you still make a claim of pretend unprecedented 'change'? And that's only eight thousand years. Multiply those variables by seven hundred fifty thousand times (which will give you the last 6 billion years of our global climate change), and those last 20 digits get pretty lost in terms of 'change'.

*the word PRETEND brought to you by our sponsors. :) Remember that though these numbers are PRETEND, we do know that there have been large and violent climate changes that have happened millions of times over the Earths timespan. :)
« Last Edit: April 24, 2009, 11:57:08 AM by mlinder »
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Offline Patrick

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Re: Dangers of Global Warming.
« Reply #172 on: April 24, 2009, 11:03:29 AM »
Say, where did you get the numbers for the first 7,850 years of your climatological timeline, Mlinder? I wasn't aware that ancient or medieval societies compiled that data. Or maybe that part of science you will accept, but you disregard that part that says you're wrong....   
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Offline mlinder

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Re: Dangers of Global Warming.
« Reply #173 on: April 24, 2009, 11:15:30 AM »
Say, where did you get the numbers for the first 7,850 years of your climatological timeline, Mlinder? I wasn't aware that ancient or medieval societies compiled that data. Or maybe that part of science you will accept, but you disregard that part that says you're wrong....   

It was an EXAMPLE. I don't claim that the numbers I put up are ACCURATE. We do know, however, that there have been a millions of climate changes in the billions of years that the earth had been 'around'.

It was an attempt to show that the sample we are using for 'climate change' is less than a flash in the pan. Nothing can be gleaned from a sample as miniscule as we are attempting to attribute a 'trend' to.

Of course, this very real and accurate LOGICAL PROCESS will be lost on the brainwashed, so carry on, bro.

There has been no logical conclusive scientific evidence made that I am 'wrong'. Happy to see it, if there is some.
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Offline Patrick

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Re: Dangers of Global Warming.
« Reply #174 on: April 24, 2009, 11:31:22 AM »
So if I don't accept your argument then I am "brainwashed?" Why don't you just call me stupid or insane, like the Soviets used to do to dissenters? When in a discussion one party starts calling others names or questioning their intelligence it usually is a sign that they are having trouble buttressing their own contentions.

I guess looking at the same data you are and coming to a different conclusion demonstrates that I am incapable of independent thinking. I wish I could think for myself so I would realize that.

Good grief.
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