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Hey Steve! Any chance you can mass produce those delrin bushings, and sell me a set? I'm sure that others would agree.
Why is that, Steve?BTW I noticed in the current J&P catalog that they now offer delrin swingarm bushings for big twin Harleys.mystic_1
Delrin, is very nice to machine.. Not my choice though, I would use 660 Bronze or similar..
Our friend Bob Franzke makes bronze swingarm bushings that should fit a lot of SOHC 4's.He's at franzke@attglobal.net, or http://www.CBXperformance.comDirect replacement for all CB/CL450 (5-speeds), CB/CL360, CBX, 350F/400F/500F/550F, and a number of SOHC 750's - undoubtedly other models also, those are just the ones I know for sure.Replace parts # 52109-283-300, 52108-300-300, 52108-457-300, 52108-333-003, blah, blah.....If you have questions about fitmet, just ask Bob directly, he's a great guy.A lengthy discussion is at http://www.hondatwins.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=29&t=320&st=0&sk=t&sd=aPut them on and forget about them forever, they're virtually indestructible......
By the way, I'm going for the tinfoil pants...so they can't read my private thoughts.
The Delrin 100 is about 2850 PSI strength, while the Delrin 500 is about 3300 PSI strength. These values are about the same as the original Zamac (composite metal-plastic powder) material Honda used in the K0 and K1 bikes. This was abandoned in the K2 (around June of 1972 or so) to become phenolic material (about 4500-5000 PSI), which remained until the end of 750 production. In the 1990s, Honda changed the replacement bushings to be steel powdered composite. This makes the bushing-collar interface steel-on-steel, which is impossible to lube well: these usually rust together after just a few years and eat each other up.Oilite bronze, even the cheapest version, is over 10,000 PSI strength, and comes with impregnated turbine oils that come to the surface if someone forgot to grease the arm and the bearing starts getting hot: this is an ideal bushing material for these bikes. Oilite (the inventors) make even harder versions of their 841 material: this is what I use on my Lifetime Warranty swingarm rebuilds.During the 1980s, several aftermarket companies brought out SAE660 bronze and series 9000 bronze bushings for these bikes: this lasts a long time, too, if kept lubed (I went 80,000+ miles on mine). They are in the 6k to 9k PSI range of strength, which is almost as strong as the pivot collar itself. They are sensitive to lack of lube, though.
Quote from: HondaMan on October 23, 2009, 09:21:20 PMThe Delrin 100 is about 2850 PSI strength, while the Delrin 500 is about 3300 PSI strength. These values are about the same as the original Zamac (composite metal-plastic powder) material Honda used in the K0 and K1 bikes. This was abandoned in the K2 (around June of 1972 or so) to become phenolic material (about 4500-5000 PSI), which remained until the end of 750 production. In the 1990s, Honda changed the replacement bushings to be steel powdered composite. This makes the bushing-collar interface steel-on-steel, which is impossible to lube well: these usually rust together after just a few years and eat each other up.Oilite bronze, even the cheapest version, is over 10,000 PSI strength, and comes with impregnated turbine oils that come to the surface if someone forgot to grease the arm and the bearing starts getting hot: this is an ideal bushing material for these bikes. Oilite (the inventors) make even harder versions of their 841 material: this is what I use on my Lifetime Warranty swingarm rebuilds.During the 1980s, several aftermarket companies brought out SAE660 bronze and series 9000 bronze bushings for these bikes: this lasts a long time, too, if kept lubed (I went 80,000+ miles on mine). They are in the 6k to 9k PSI range of strength, which is almost as strong as the pivot collar itself. They are sensitive to lack of lube, though.One comment concerning the use of lube on the oillite bearings. NEVER grease them. Grease will clog the pores and render the oil capacity of the bushing itself useless. Heavy oil can be used.Before I install them in a machine at work, I further saturate them. Simply grab the bushings with two fingers covering one end with your thumb. Fill bushing with oil to the brim, cover it with your finger and squeeze. You'll see oil come "through" the bushing. Wipe off the excess with a rag and install. I've found that this procedure makes them last MUCH longer in a low lubrication environment.
Why not just upgrade the swing arm to needle bearings? There is a kit out there to do this. A little more money than the bushing route, but not a lot.
Quote from: cycleman on November 06, 2009, 01:53:18 PMWhy not just upgrade the swing arm to needle bearings? There is a kit out there to do this. A little more money than the bushing route, but not a lot.There are a variety of reasons why some prefer bushings to bearings in this application. Bushings are simpler, can tolerate higher loads, and wear more evenly in situations like this where there's little movement.mystic_1
Quote from: mystic_1 on November 06, 2009, 02:54:14 PMQuote from: cycleman on November 06, 2009, 01:53:18 PMWhy not just upgrade the swing arm to needle bearings? There is a kit out there to do this. A little more money than the bushing route, but not a lot.There are a variety of reasons why some prefer bushings to bearings in this application. Bushings are simpler, can tolerate higher loads, and wear more evenly in situations like this where there's little movement.mystic_1When I first heard of the needle bearing kits years ago i thought they would be neat. But since then I've learned as Mystic says they aren't really stronger, and they are susceptible to rusting up. The real upgrade is bronze bushing in my mind, with hondaMans attn to the grease pathways. IMO
Quote from: MCRider on November 06, 2009, 03:03:08 PMQuote from: mystic_1 on November 06, 2009, 02:54:14 PMQuote from: cycleman on November 06, 2009, 01:53:18 PMWhy not just upgrade the swing arm to needle bearings? There is a kit out there to do this. A little more money than the bushing route, but not a lot.There are a variety of reasons why some prefer bushings to bearings in this application. Bushings are simpler, can tolerate higher loads, and wear more evenly in situations like this where there's little movement.mystic_1When I first heard of the needle bearing kits years ago i thought they would be neat. But since then I've learned as Mystic says they aren't really stronger, and they are susceptible to rusting up. The real upgrade is bronze bushing in my mind, with hondaMans attn to the grease pathways. IMOAs Terry also stated nedle bearings are.....ok IF maintained properly.I have seen needle bearings eat into hardened shafts in commercial applications.If there is no full revolutions of the needle bearings (only partial revolutions as the swingarms do) you can't really fully use the potential of needle bearings.They are nice. I've used them in a few personal project applications.When given the ability to get a few full rev's out of them, and lubed properly, they are GREAT.But for swingarms.... my money is on the bronze bushings for accessibility to material and longevity.l8r
Maybe the 750, with it's dry sump system, could reroute some of the returning oil to the tank through the swingarm?
Quote from: HondaMan on November 08, 2009, 11:27:00 AMMaybe the 750, with it's dry sump system, could reroute some of the returning oil to the tank through the swingarm? I think I had to work on one of those once !!
