Author Topic: lack of zinc in engine oil.... (Read 10350 times)

NickC · « **Reply #50 on:** April 16, 2009, 06:17:36 PM »

Sent him an email, i should know something tommorow....

torrinh · « **Reply #51 on:** April 16, 2009, 06:18:05 PM »

OIL THREAD!!!

kghost · « **Reply #52 on:** April 16, 2009, 07:00:52 PM »

Oil analysis is easy its done all the time with aircraft.

Problem is they do not look specifically for Zinc.

Why? Because theres nothing in your engine made out of Zinc.

Sure they test for babbit, copper, steel, bronze and stuff like that but most places are not looking for zinc.

Oil anaylsis available commercially is used for wear and trend analysis. Doesn't really tell ya what the actual oil contains.

We use Aviation Laboratories...http://www.avlab.com/ even have some of thier kits sitting around. But they are the Metal check variety.

I'd guess that a gas chromatography-mass spectrometry machine would give you the zinc content.

Curiously the Avlab web site shows they carry the CamGuard line.

http://www.aslcamguard.com/

Theres an interesting Anti wear test here: http://www.aslcamguard.com/antiwear.php

Edit: cool pictures http://www.aslcamguard.com/Certification%20Engine.pdf

Inigo Montoya · « **Reply #53 on:** April 16, 2009, 07:06:49 PM »

I guess my idea was not so much to tell zinc levels but to see what sort of wear is happening. Hence the 2 tests. One with lower zinc and one with higher. If no appreciable difference, the zinc may not be super important?

TheHun · « **Reply #54 on:** April 16, 2009, 07:08:34 PM »

highest level of zinc available in the US is from Valvoline VR racing oils..NOT THE SYN but the regular. Hope this helps some of you.

kpier883 · « **Reply #55 on:** April 16, 2009, 07:25:34 PM »

These guys will send you a kit for sampling the oil and mailing by U.S. Postal service. They also provide instructions on how to package to avoid any problems with the shipment:

http://www.blackstone-labs.com/free_test_kit.html

And they do check the zinc as shown on this report for a 1972 CB350:

http://www.blackstone-labs.com/motorcycle_report_2.html

Kirk Pierce

BobbyR · « **Reply #56 on:** April 16, 2009, 07:28:51 PM »

Quote from: kghost on April 16, 2009, 07:00:52 PM

Oil analysis is easy its done all the time with aircraft.

Problem is they do not look specifically for Zinc.

Why? Because theres nothing in your engine made out of Zinc.

Sure they test for babbit, copper, steel, bronze and stuff like that but most places are not looking for zinc.

Oil anaylsis available commercially is used for wear and trend analysis. Doesn't really tell ya what the actual oil contains.

We use Aviation Laboratories...http://www.avlab.com/ even have some of thier kits sitting around. But they are the Metal check variety.

I'd guess that a gas chromatography-mass spectrometry machine would give you the zinc content.

Curiously the Avlab web site shows they carry the CamGuard line.

http://www.aslcamguard.com/

Theres an interesting Anti wear test here: http://www.aslcamguard.com/antiwear.php

Edit: cool pictures http://www.aslcamguard.com/Certification%20Engine.pdf

King is right they do a wear analysis. I used the lab on a claim I had against GM and I won. If nothing else you get a read on your engine wear. Very handy service.

75750SS · « **Reply #57 on:** April 16, 2009, 07:46:03 PM »

FYI - Looks similar to the ZDDP, maybe a little cheaper.

http://www.7ent.com/detail.cfm?pageid=2957

IHWillys · « **Reply #58 on:** April 16, 2009, 08:40:58 PM »

Quote from: grumpy on April 15, 2009, 09:41:36 PM

...Powdered zinc oxide (ZnO) is available.
Mix a few milligrams in w/ the oil and you should be good to go - and your engine won't get a sunburn

Nor dandruff...

Ken

Duke McDukiedook · « **Reply #59 on:** April 16, 2009, 09:58:43 PM »

Quote from: kpier883 on April 16, 2009, 07:25:34 PM

These guys will send you a kit for sampling the oil and mailing by U.S. Postal service. They also provide instructions on how to package to avoid any problems with the shipment:

http://www.blackstone-labs.com/free_test_kit.html

And they do check the zinc as shown on this report for a 1972 CB350:

http://www.blackstone-labs.com/motorcycle_report_2.html

Kirk Pierce

That's not bad at all. Might be worth a twenty spot and change to see how my engine abuses oil.

And how much Zinc is in that proprietary blend.

mark · « **Reply #60 on:** April 17, 2009, 01:38:58 AM »

Quote from: TheHun on April 16, 2009, 07:08:34 PM

highest level of zinc available in the US is from Valvoline VR racing oils..NOT THE SYN but the regular. Hope this helps some of you.

haven't seen the stuff in 10-40 though..... plenty of 20-50 and straight 50 and 60

the 2.3 likes it.

MRieck · « **Reply #61 on:** April 17, 2009, 05:00:50 AM »

Quote from: TheHun on April 16, 2009, 07:08:34 PM

highest level of zinc available in the US is from Valvoline VR racing oils..NOT THE SYN but the regular. Hope this helps some of you.

I read that too.

mark · « **Reply #62 on:** April 19, 2009, 03:00:48 PM »

hmmmm... interesting.

There's a new label stuck to the VR1 bottle.....

"HIGH ZINC Great for push-rod and flat tappet engines"

... and from the spiel on the back......

"Ashless anti-wear additives and ZDDP provide ultimate wear protection."

NAPA had 10-30 and 20-50 but no 10-40 .

Jerry Rxman Griffin aka MuthaF'er · « **Reply #63 on:** April 19, 2009, 06:13:53 PM »

Plus it's alledged to ward off the common cold

Sounds very promising. OK with clutch?

mark · « **Reply #64 on:** April 19, 2009, 09:00:31 PM »

we shall see.....

<insert fingers crossed smiley here>

78CB750CAFE · « **Reply #65 on:** April 20, 2009, 05:54:26 PM »

I grabbed some BG Engine Performance Concentrate at my local Honda shop today, and it has quite a bit of Zinc in it. Though they sell the product, yhey were not willing to give me any advice on whetehet it would be safe to use on my CB, even though the guy I talked to happens to own a few CB's as well as various other vintage bikes. All he was able to do was spout the Honda line of "use Honda oil in Honda bikes" and I told him I would be happy if Honda sold the same oil they sold 30 years ago.

Any experiences or thoughts on this product?

(about mid way down page) http://www.bgprod.com/products/engineoil.html

HavocTurbo · « **Reply #66 on:** April 23, 2009, 01:54:11 PM »

Quote from: 78CB750CAFE on April 20, 2009, 05:54:26 PM

I grabbed some BG Engine Performance Concentrate at my local Honda shop today, and it has quite a bit of Zinc in it. Though they sell the product, yhey were not willing to give me any advice on whetehet it would be safe to use on my CB, even though the guy I talked to happens to own a few CB's as well as various other vintage bikes. All he was able to do was spout the Honda line of "use Honda oil in Honda bikes" and I told him I would be happy if Honda sold the same oil they sold 30 years ago.

Any experiences or thoughts on this product?

(about mid way down page) http://www.bgprod.com/products/engineoil.html

We use the synthetic in everything but wet clutch applications.... works awesome. 99% of my customers say they notice a difference in their car, truck, boat, whatever. There is one guy though that never comments on anything... and its hard to know how his stuff broke. But it break alot!! Hence my 99%.

I'm afraid to use it in a wet clutch. Rep says it should be fine because they dont have some additives that others do.... but I'm lookin for a small 125 or 250 to use it on so replacement is easier if I burn it up.

But a big +! from me for BG in everything else.

78CB750CAFE · « **Reply #67 on:** April 23, 2009, 03:28:46 PM »

well...
I put about 1/3 bottle in my oil yesterday, and I have done a little less than 100 miles in the last 2 days with it in there. So far so good, but should I drain it since nobody is 100% sure it is OK to use?

crazypj · « **Reply #68 on:** April 24, 2009, 05:42:59 AM »

I've completely forgotten the details and after several computer hard drives in last 10 yrs I've lost the information, but, I'm pretty sure the zinc wont affect wet clutch, its high pressure metal to metal (cam lobes/ roller bearings) where it works. (I've been looking into this since at least 1995)
Its not like a normal 'surface lube', the pressure on clutch plates isn't high enough for it to 'work'
PJ

78CB750CAFE · « **Reply #69 on:** April 24, 2009, 08:26:17 AM »

I am not worried about the zinc/ZBBT as it used to be in the oil BITD, I am worried about the rest of the stuff in the product.

crazypj · « **Reply #70 on:** April 24, 2009, 10:52:46 PM »

If oil meets JASO spec its OK, the spec is for wet clutch
PJ

HavocTurbo · « **Reply #71 on:** April 25, 2009, 10:59:48 AM »

Quote from: crazypj on April 24, 2009, 10:52:46 PM

If oil meets JASO spec its OK, the spec is for wet clutch
PJ

Thank you sir....

You have just saved my bacon!!

DRMR · « **Reply #72 on:** April 26, 2009, 09:42:48 PM »

Found this on Popular Hot Rodding forum.Could the process be applied to the Honda camshafts
and rocker arms?
Maybe the engine builders on here would know?
I believe Jay at APE nitrides crankshafts.

You may ask, if nitriding is such a great process for camshafts, why hasn’t it been used before now? The answer lies in the product improvements developed by the very company introducing this heretofore unutilized process, COMP Cams. The fact is, there really hasn’t been a need for camshaft nitriding prior to the development of really aggressive lobe profiles in conjunction with rpm-range—extending beehive valvesprings. Never before has so much compromise-free airflow been possible with a flat-tappet cam.

Almost simultaneous to these valve-motion breakthroughs is the government-regulated phase-out of zinc compounds in motor oil. What has resulted is a perfect storm of sorts: super aggressive cam profiles with valvesprings to match, and motor oils without the necessary protection to keep them alive.

super pasty white guy · « **Reply #73 on:** May 18, 2009, 03:11:16 PM »

Well, I just completed an engine oil analysis. I've attached the results for those interested.

The short summary is this batch of rotella synthetic was run 2000 miles.

Blackstone says:
Iron, copper, and lead read higher than average, and this combination of metals shows excess bearing wear in your bike. We don't know if this is a problem, but it is something to watch. The trace of fuel shouldn't be a problem at this level and is likely from normal operation; i.e., city riding or idling. The 8.5 TBN shows lots of active additive left. We suggest replacing this oil and resampling at 1,000 miles next fill to monitor. Maybe try a non-synthetic oil.

I note (keeping on topic) that the zinc levels listed are twice what they say the universal average is.

spwg

78CB750CAFE · « **Reply #74 on:** May 18, 2009, 06:45:24 PM »

thanks for the info Pasty

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Author Topic: lack of zinc in engine oil.... (Read 10350 times)