Topic: '66 305 Superhawk

[MosquitoJones]

I just picked up an entire (albeit in pieces) 66 Superhawk.  And boxes and boxes of spare parts.  It's pretty rough, but I'm sure there's more than enough there to completely rebuild the bike.  Anyone here have experience working on these things? I've never done a rebuild or resto.  I'm hoping with as many spare parts I got I can help pay for part of the resto with them.

[Bodi]

I've worked on several, have one in the shed.
The engine is pretty simple, really. The cam is a bit tricky - it is in two halves, with the ignition advancer in the middle and the points cam shaft running through the middle of one cam half. A lot of them were parked because of wear in there... the ignition timing would go all weird (and unsettable) if the shaft got loose in the cam bore. Parts are rare and getting rarer and getting pricier... check the fit there before going to much expense assembling the engine.
The engine and transmission bearings are pretty much indestructable but rust never sleeps. Check they're in good condition, they're common sizes for the most part but the ring grooves will have to be ground in if you need replacements. Good luck with gaskets and seals, kits were pretty common in swap meets a few years ago but rare now. I have a few CB72 gasket sets (all but the head gasket match)  (so let me know if you want one) but no seals. Most seals should be "stock" sizes but there's at least one oddball if I recall correctly.
If the rods or the crank roller bearings are bad, you're in deep dung. Honda apparently did not want the crank disassembled, so the con rods and the inner main and big-end roller sets were never available: you bought a new complete crank assembly. CMSNL has no stock on this but a price of €2347.50 (!!!)
The shift drum and forks are a bit troublesome, and pure unobtanium. Hope for the best? The grooves in the drum wear and the forks get worn and bent especially with power shifting and such that was all the rage "back in the day". A few extra neutrals makes for careful shifting... hard driven ones have a lot of gearbox troubles.
The frame is pretty good, using the engine as a frame member makes it pretty stiff (relatively!). The forks are crap, but it is a 60's bike. You will want decent rear shocks, the fish oil in the originals will have turned to dust by now. Size is close or same as for a CB400F.
Brakes can be surprising - good or bad. Properly set up, the double leading shoe units are quite powerful. Poorly set up... ugh. And they will fade a lot when used in anger and heated up. When wet, well.. you have no brakes.
Assembling a basket case is always a challenge.
Fasteners are a bother. This has pre-ISO thread sizes: the 6mm bolts are the same 1mm pitch but smaller and some larger ones are not readily available any more. Hope you have (and can sort out) all the bolts!
Electrics are typical 60's stuff. PM single phase alternator with dual output coils (day and night use), single fuse, feeble lighting.
Good luck!

[Sam Green Racing]

Other than that, you shouldn't have any problems good luck.

Sam.

[HondaMan]

I raced them from 1967 to 1970, and I can say for sure....BODI HAS IT NAILED. 
They were a blast, though. With the stock cam and no cam timing changes, I don't think the engine could self-destruct in neutral with the throttle held wide open. The engine was so stout that it could take a supercharger with no bottom end changes! To install one, all you have to do (  ) is cut out part of the backbone and bolt the charger in its place (with a few custom mounting brackets), and use a Linkert carb from an old Sportster twin,  but the mainjet must be drilled (I've forgotten how big) to feed enough fuel. And you have to make a wye tube to feed the two cylinders from the onecharger output port... 

Tips: Advancing the cam one full sprocket tooth would still allow valve clearance to the pistons at 7800 RPM, had to flycut the pistons above that. The bottom end torque change was very welcome, though, with this mod.

Cutting one half of a turn off of those spark advancer springs that BODI is talking about can help, if the parts are worn so much that the timing is being difficult.

Dropping in a Rocky 327cc or 337cc kit with 10:1 pistons really wakes them up, too. The late 1967 and the (very few) 1968 heads had larger intake valves, almost 25% larger, and breathed much better, and the heads swap. My last "Racing Hawk" was one of the few 1968 models made before the 350 twin replaced them.

The CL77 (street/scrambler version of the same bike) came with a nice friction-type steering damper that could just bolt into the holes on the CB77 frame, a nice help on tight courses and bumpy streets. It also had 4 more teeth on the rear sprocket, if you're looking for gearing changes.

The 1968 350 twin's 5-speed tranny will fit, in a pinch, but is hard to find: it must be the ones that did not have the thrust washer spacer in between gears 2 and 3: the later ones had different shafts and would not fit. It also leaves the bike geared very low, cutting the top speed to about 80 MPH at redline in 5th gear. Nice and quick feel to them, though, with a "close ratio" racing feel to it.

The adjustable linkage for the gearshifter was a real nuisance after the holes and pins wore, making shifting difficult. Some riders subbed the 350 one-piece shifter (a little awkward), and for a while Rocky Cycle made bushings to remove the slack. If you want bushings on yours, drop me a PM and we can talk about it (I have a lathe): I'd cut a real deal just to walk down that memory lane again!

[MosquitoJones]

Thanks for the replies, guys.  I found out the bike is actually a '65 CP77 by the vin and wiring harness.  If the odo is to be believed, the bike only has about 6k on it, so I don't expect any excessive wear in the engine itself.  Stuff was stored indoors in dry climate, so rust appears minimal.  Forks and body look to be in good condition, though the paint is crap (aftermarket sprayed on over black).  This would be a rider, so I'm not worried about bigger pistons (or a supercharger   ).  I just want to do a good cleanup job.  I got a bunch of extra parts as well, so hopefully if anything is out of whack I can use those and trade/sell extra spares for what I need.

edit:  whoops, the odo has 2k on it  

[HondaMan]

Man, that thing is brand new!
Is it white?
There were 4 types back then: CA (Dream, the tourer), CB (Supersport), CL (Street/Scrambler) and CP (Police). The CA and CP engines had 360 degree crankshafts, with one set of points firing a waste spark system like the Fours use. The CB and CL used 180 degree cranks with two sets of points, 90 degrees between power strokes and 270 degrees of no power, much like a Harley. The sounds of the two types are very distinctive. By swapping around the cams and points plates and using the "extra" points wires, a CA or CP could be converted to a CB/CL twin-point design for the hotrodders. The CA and CP versions idled better and ran smoother in heavy traffic, with better heat control.

[MosquitoJones]

Not white. I think it was originally black (the frame is black) and then a PO decided to spray over some flake blue on the tank and forks (the black is showing through in spots).  From what I was able to gather, this is not the police version, which is a CYP77.  The CP 77's are somewhat rare, and there are several theories as to what they were intended.  Link here: http://www.honda305.com/fr/cb77_F13.htm .  Pretty sure this engine has the 180 degree crank.  It uses a CB wiring harness (lableled as such).

[HondaMan]

Not white. I think it was originally black (the frame is black) and then a PO decided to spray over some flake blue on the tank and forks (the black is showing through in spots).  From what I was able to gather, this is not the police version, which is a CYP77.  The CP 77's are somewhat rare, and there are several theories as to what they were intended.  Link here: http://www.honda305.com/fr/cb77_F13.htm .  Pretty sure this engine has the 180 degree crank.  It uses a CB wiring harness (lableled as such).

Ah, that's right: CYP for the older police models...    Sorry, I forgot that part.
If it has 2 sets of points, it is the 180 crank, that's the easiest way to tell.

I don't ever remember any of the Hawk series being specially designated as racers, though (per that article). In those dys, it was mostly a Yoshimura kit package that was available in 2 or 3 versions, depending on how tightly tuned the final product was to be. They offered (but I never actually SAW) a 6-speed gearbox kit for the Hawk series, too (Cx72/77 bikes). The 5-speed was pretty common on the tracks, and I suspect was how a very similar version ended up in the early 350 twins.

The specific lack of a thrust washer idler between gears 2 and 3 was a problem on the street, because when the clutch was pulled in and the bike was in gear, the two gears pressed against each other and made the bike creep and drag. On the track, of course, this was not an issue. It caused first a retrofit of the gears to include thinner gears with a thrust washer, which became production before 1968 was out, and in late 1969 a fully new transmission. Us racers used the early 350 trannys from wrecked bikes as a cheaper source of 5-speed boxes than the pricey Yosh Hawk pieces.

[Bodi]

Mine is an amalgam of a 66 CP and a 67 CB (or the other way around) with the CP engine in it. This is a standard 180 degree CB engine. I don't know either what the CP was designating, I have seen the 360 degree ones as well but they're pretty rare. The factory shop manual for the CB 250/300 shows both types.
There's a lot of info here http://www.honda305.com/ and I have the electronic ignition available from them, it works excellently. I have no clue what their "snuff-or-not" does.

[HondaMan]

Mine is an amalgam of a 66 CP and a 67 CB (or the other way around) with the CP engine in it. This is a standard 180 degree CB engine. I don't know either what the CP was designating, I have seen the 360 degree ones as well but they're pretty rare. The factory shop manual for the CB 250/300 shows both types.
There's a lot of info here http://www.honda305.com/ and I have the electronic ignition available from them, it works excellently. I have no clue what their "snuff-or-not" does.

The "Snuff-or-Not" fits nicely into the exhaust pipes on those bikes (just the right size!) and provides a real cheap muffler that's about as effective as the original, with about the same backpressure. It has a knob on it that you can turn the little washer (that's inside the pipe) sideways, opening the pipe straight-thru, so to speak. They were very popular on the CL77, with straight pipes from Rocky Cycle that fit into the original mounts and heat shields. The CB often saw these on the tracks. I think that opening them just made more noise than power, though. 

[MosquitoJones]

Any of you fellows recommend a place (or several) for parts?  I know there's ebay but the majority of stuff on there is coming from Thailand and f#ck that.  I remember seeing a bunch of cables for sale on some website but of course I can't remember what it was 

It has literally rained almost every day since I got the bike so I've gotten nothing done.  I guess mother nature forgot we live in a damn desert. 

[Bodi]

What parts do you need?
Swap meets are the only place for these bikes now, except for ebay. And ebay has siphoned off a lot of the swap meet stuff. If there's a vintage motorcycle club around you, they would know more about the local parts scene. Mid-Ohio is about the biggest swap meet going, don't know the date though.
There's a pretty good vintage swap meet here on Father's Day and I'll be there. If you have any specific needs I can see whats around.

[HondaMan]

Rain: here in Colorado, we're having record amounts, following a record drought until March 20. Now we are nearly 2x the annual normal, since March! I still have last year's gas in my 750... 

Have you talked with Bill440carrs? He has a bunch of CL72 stuff, and I think 2 or 3 CB77 bikes as donors. He's trying to put together a good CL72, so he might have -77 parts available.

[MosquitoJones]

Lucky for me the things I've found I needed are still available new.  That being cables, air filters, etc.  I was just wondering if any of y'all had a website or two that carries parts from that far back.  Most of the good ones for our sohc's don't.

Forecast for this weekend?  Maybe not rain.  If that's the case I can get some frickin' painting done.  Normally by this time of year it's 85 degrees.  Today it was 72.  We've already had more rain so far than we usually have by the end of the month. :argh: