Topic: 1975 Honda CB400 Four Project - Rookie

[RickB]

More parts on order!

These from DSS:

1 x Wheel rim, Front - 1.60x18 36 hole
1 x Wheel rim, Rear - 1.85x18 36 hole
1 x Brake caliper piston
1 x Brake master cylinder diaphragm
1 x Clutch cable
2 x Cush drive rubber (already have the other 2 from my first order)
1 x Speedometer cable
1 x Tachometer cable
1 x Throttle closing cable
1 x Throttle opening cable

And from eBay:
4 x Carb Rebuild Kit
1 x Giuliari Repro Cafe Racer Seat (yep, dropped some coin on this)

From crc2onlinecatalog.com:
1 x 7 Inch Chrome Visor
1 x Mini Tach with 1:7 Ratio
1 x Mini Gauge BLK Face with LED Indicators 2240:60 Ratio
2 x Alum Mini Signals with globes.

Oh yeah, spending money! Now I just need to sort my levers out, I need a new clutch perch, and I think I'm going to have some trouble mounting my master cylinder on the drag bars without the perch hitting the upper triple tree.

Oh and I need a muffler/exhaust/silencer whatever you want to call it. I'm thinking of getting a Norton Peashooter style silencer and mounting that. The stock repo that DSS have looks pretty good however. Might try both.

Rick.

[hoodellyhoo]

Go Rick Go!!!! Always nice to know that progress is being made, even if it is something as simple as ordering parts.

[strynboen]

getting parts home are the best in world,,better then dec..24..or is it dec 25 dovn under,,we vant it all ,,keep going..

[Vampire]

But the big question is, what color do I paint the tank and side covers? .... go with the original CB400F Light Ruby Red.
Rick.

Hi Rick,
I am restoring a 1975 CB400F and have painted the tank and side covers in Honda R25, a standard colour that any smash repairer or similar should be able to get their hands on. It is so close to the original Light Ruby Red that I doubt anyone could tell the difference.

[traveler]

Rick,

Things look well, from where I sit.

What color did you go with on the tank and covers?

The polished bits.....they only oxidize if you flat refuse to do a little bit of polishing.  If you keep them clean and go over them quickly once every couple of weeks, they will always look good....and the more you go over them, the smoother the finish gets.

We really need to see some more pics, mate!

~Joe

[HedNut]

That's awesome man!...gonna be like christmas once all them new parts start rolling in!!  CHEERS!
Can't wait to see the pics of this coming together!

[RickB]

Once I get this shipment of parts I'll be so close! I'll put up more photos when I have them. Thanks guys!

P.S. Just got an email from DSS saying they've finally shipped two of my orders. A 3rd one (with the rims in it) is waiting on a cable.

[RickB]

Hey guys,

I've had a frustrating few weeks saving for parts, then ordering them, then waiting for back-orders, then waiting for shipping. This week I got 2 of my 3 outstanding orders from DSS, four carb rebuild kit from eBay my gauges, indicators and visor from CRC2.



DSS spares order. Mainly crank shaft bearings, valves, conrod bolts and other minor parts. Close to $800 worth of parts hear. Valves aren't cheap.



Mini gauges. I found these via a helpful little blog called Austin Cafe Racer. I bought them from the quite good CRC2 along with the indicators and a headlight visor.





What I like about these are they are small at 60mm face diameter (the Australia 10cent coin is roughly the same as a US quarter. The also have the 'idiot lights' built into the face. So I can remove the rather ugly stock idiot light box. Far from the stock gauges I know, but at least I can restore those when I no longer want a 'cafed' bike of sorts. My only complaint is that the mounting plate of the tach is a different metal finish the the mounting plate of the speedo. These came with mounting clamps but I don't need them.





Mounting them. I've bought a few different hex bolt sets for the CB400F. None of them have the correct size bolts for the gauges. So I'll have to get those, for the mean time I made do with the hardware I had. I haven't got my fork lowers back from the metal polisher so that's why the forks don't have the top caps on.



So I found a new problem.



My master cylinder is too big for the drag bars. When I have the brake line installed it will rub on the bar clamps for sure.



And the other side of this clamp won't fit with the wires from the switch getting in the way. Crap. I don't know what to do here. Any ideas?





So I moved onto indicators. Again, I got the mini aluminum turn signals from CRC2. I was worried they'd be too big, but I like them and feel they suit the vintage of the bike.



So I went to mount the front indicators . The shroud didn't fit in the hole, so I removed it. This should have been a warning.



The stem for the indicator is too big for the headlight bucket hole.



Yet it fits the existing stock headlight bolts which can only mean one thing...



The headlight bucket's spot-welded nuts are too small by 1 or 2mm. Bummer.



The nut is spot welded on the corers and then has a lip that sits flush with the bucket...



So I figured I might be able to screw in a bolt and twist the bolt off it's welding. Of course that didn't work and only started flake the chrome off the bucket when the metal started to twist. #$%*.



Same photos again, but I think I need to have someone cut the welded bolts off the bucket. No idea if that's possible given the small area. Would a dremel tool do this?

So what I was hoping to be an exciting day working on the bike was only a frustrating few hours.

I really just want to get my rims so I can have a rolling frame. Then I have to sort out the levers and perches and master cylinder and them I'm done.

Rick.

[Hush]

New parts...ahhh bike porn.
Looks all nice and shiny Rick, why not just drill out the bolts threads so they aren't part of the problem?
Can you pack out the brake lever with a nice angled piece of shiny alloy to just clear the handlebar bracket?
Will the stock speedo and rev counter cables fit those pretty clocks?
I just love your project young man..........Hush.

[Retro Rocket]

And the other side of this clamp won't fit with the wires from the switch getting in the way. Crap. I don't know what to do here. Any ideas?

Use superbike bars, they are only a little bit higher, look very cool and solve all your problems at the same time...

Mick

[RickB]

I'm pretty set on my drag bars. I'd sooner change the master cylinder. Does anyone have some recommendations on a master cylinder that sits a little higher?

Alternatively I abandon the new switches and find some Honda switches that have both the throttle and the switch in one unit. Perhaps that would create enough room for the master cylinder. Perhaps the stock 350F switch block as it's a little more low profile from memory than the stock 400F switch which I always thought were bulky.

[RickB]

Hi all,

So managed to work on some little bits and pieces over the weekend.





Had a friend help me drill out the existing nuts so the indicator stems would fit in. I was worried that the extra nut height would mean the globe wouldn't fit, but it does. The 'right' way to do this would have been to cut out the existing nut, but I don't have a suitable tool for this. Regardless it works, so I'm happy.







Painted the caliper finally. Gave it a good sand and air-gunned out any dust. Taped off the sensitive areas and gave them a few light coats, sanded any high points, gave them some heat with the heat gun to help cure (should have used an oven but don't want to stick/poison the house) and finished with a heavier wet coat as per instructions on the can. So far, so good. Although the piston side of the caliper was looking a little rough, might need to sand and coat again. I'll wait and see how it looks once fully dried.

In more parts news. My new custom seat is in the mail on the way to me. That is going to either be very exciting or hugely disappointing. I'm not sure if it will fit or look within proportion of the smaller 400F frame (the seat was originally designed for a 750). I'm expecting to have to take some foam out of it to slim it down (and have it coming disassembled for this reason).

DSS emailed and have finally shipped final order. So that means rims! I've called a place all the way out in Euroa that will lace and true my new rims for $70 a rim. Is this something I could realistically tackle by myself? Right now, I'd rather have a pro do it as I imagine it's pretty important to my safety.

I think I might have solved the master cylinder issue. I'll just push the throttle tube off the end of the bars by 10mm or so. I could even machine down the end of the master cylinder and banjo bolt to split the difference. Not ideal, but a solution.

Anyway, more updates once the parts arrive later this week. It's getting close!

Rick.

[RickB]

Hi guys,



Just got my new rims from DSS. I also got new cables, brake piston and some other little bits. The seat arrived too (more photos of that later).

Main problem is I just noticed the front and rear spoke sets I ordered from DSS back in December aren't chrome. The have that gold/yellow zinc plated look to them. Same with the nipples. I'm not sure if they're stainless still or not. Still, I'm a bit disappointed they don't match the chrome of the new rims. I think they won't look too good with that weird zinc plated color. Should I get new chrome spokes (plenty on eBay from Thailand) or should I stick with the David Silver Spares supplied ones? I have emailed DSS asking if they're stainless. Perhaps I can have the stainless spokes polished?

Rick.

[RickB]

Just got this from DSS:

The spokes were never chromed from honda but were mild steel. The same ones as what we have supplied you.

So does that mean they're not stainless steel? Perhaps I should get a chrome set then? Or polished stainless steel.

[fastbroshi]

Definitely not SS.  If they offer them the chrome ones should fit okay. 

[RickB]

Hey lads,

I got back into the shed last night and again today. Slow progress but fun none the less.







Masked and painted the front disc. Took some time to tape up given the tricky angles but it needed doing. It was hard to fully sand all the old paint off of it, I really should have blasted it but this is the best I could do.









The headlight visor. I didn't anticipate this being so damn difficult. It was so tricky getting it to fit smoothly around the curve. It sort of bends from the top. It was hard to get it into the 'corners' so to speak. Hard to see in the photos. After much pushing and aligning and wishing I had three hands I manged to get it. It's certainly not perfect, but I don't think the original light was men to have a visor. I'm happy with it (if I can get it into the bucket properly of course).



Brake caliper (piston side) needed a repaint (missed some spots) and in the process I completely screwed up the paint job on the other half of the caliper. So I'll need to strip that and start again. Bummer.



Thanks to Wingman for really forcing this baking thing home for me. When using high temperature paint I've found that baking the paint for 3 hours at 200c really makes it better. When I haven't baked something, it never really cures. It remains tacky. Painting, it's a #$%*.

Ordered some chrome spokes. Need to replace the front axle collar, mines rusted and bent. Parts, parts, parts.

Oh and need a replacement speedo drive unit. I noticed mine has a crack through it (once I'd cleaned the dirt off it). I found a NOS unit on eBay for $100, seems pricey.

Rick.

[ivanhoew]

fascinating read , i read the whole thing through and resisted going to the last page ,thank you .

[RickB]

Hey guys,

Updates have been a little slow, only because aside from the electrics, I feel like I've done what I can do without the wheels on.





On that note, I finally got my chrome spoke sets in the mail from Thailand. Of course there's a mess-up. The nipples are different shades of chrome. I was going to match the spokes with the more 'chromey' nipples from my DSS set but they're a larger diameter (which means the Thailand set are thinner, I hope this is safe!).

The Thailand people are sending me out a new set of nipples so I'll finally have a matching set that I can send on to the wheel lacing/truing guy.



I ordered a complete Dyna setup. 3ohm coils, an electric ignition and spark plug leads (I went with black). The engine rebuild is still happening. My mechanic now has a full time job so he's getting to it when he finds the time. At the moment, I'm fine with it because it means I'm not having to fork out large amounts of cash at once.

I took some more photos of new parts (the new front wheel collar and speedo unit) but my camera is at the office.

The tank and side covers are being painted this week apparently. This is good because then I can mount the custom seat. Anyway, I've decided on a dark British Racing Green as the original silver wore off on me. It just seemed too plain and vanilla, what with all the chrome on it already. Plus I saw this Ducati 750 Sport and fell in love with it.



I know this British Racing Green isn't a stock CB400F or even CB350F color, but I'm ok with that for now. As I'll be fitting a CB350F tank to my CB400F, I'm already straying from the 'factory' anyway.

More updates to come when I have them.

Rick.

[RickB]

Hi all,

So I've finally sent the wheels off for lacing, they'll get rubber next week I hope. I took my fork lowers to a metal polisher, they look fantastic. The guy that did them, Karl from Metal Polish 2000, is a great guy and I couldn't recommend him highly enough. As they were brushed aluminum, I was instructed to get them clear coated as soon as possible. So I took them to a mag-wheel coating place and had them 2-pack clear coated. Here's hoping they don't yellow or chip easily.







More parts painting. As above, I baked the brake disc for 3 hours. No more tacky half dried paint. Although I did mask off some areas a bit rough, I'm happy with it. It's easy to look at each individual part and pick the flaws, but when it's all together I don't think anyone will notice the tiny bit of paint not masked correctly or whatever.



No matter how much sanding or how many coats, I couldn't get the caliper housing to look good. I'd always get a drip or a bad spray. In the end, I took them to the powdercoater (Pro Cote Powdercoaters) and had them do it in a semi-gloss black. It looks fantastic and was only $30. I won't match the gloss black of the disc, but I'm alright with that.



I have been trying to remove my drive cushings (or is it cushes?). I have a new set from DSS which you may remember I mistakedly bought thinking they were rear suspension cushes. So I tried heating up the hub hoping it would expand and I could remove the cushings/cushes.



It was so hot I needed oven mitts.



I borrowed the old-mans multi-tool (SOG Knives, not a bad tool) but they wouldn't budge. They are well and truly stuck. I asked a local bike engineer if he had any ideas, he said to drill them out. I only really want to replace them because I have new ones. Maybe the place that will put the tyres on will have a tool for removing them. Otherwise, they're staying in.



Got more packages in the mail. The Thai's know how to package a parcel. I got string and everything!



A new front collar. Love the packaging.



New and old. I got this thinking the tabs on the old one were damaged. But after seeing the new one, that's just how they are. Never mind, now I don't have to get all that rust off!





A new speedo drive unit.







My old one had a seized cable screw and upon closer inspection, had a big crack through it. Got this on eBay from an Australia guy. Was a bit pricey at $100 but it is shiny!

And in other huge news, I found a NOS camshaft! And in Australia no less. Bert from BK Performance in North Queensland. He has a lot of parts, but kinda' hard to find them all on his site. Anyway it was $220 plus GST and shipping. That is a steal as far as I'm concerned. I'm so happy about that. Sure, a WebCam or Megacycle cam with a slightly aggressive grind would have given me some performance increases, but I figure if it's good enough for Honda, it's good enough for me. Plus I'd be looking at more than $250 for a regrind/weld of my existing and close to $500 for an aftermarket. I think I've made the right choice.

So next up is getting the rubber on and the wheels on the bike. I have to put in my brass swingarm bushings first. It's getting close!

Rick.

[Aladinsane07]

I seriously love this build.  I can't believe everything that's gone into getting the bike this far.  Great job!  I'll be watching

[FT20BAS]

hi. have just glanced over the thread and am scared #$%*less. i am glad you're going this far but won't be replicating your effort. i get more of a kick out of quick slap together rebuilds.

out of interest, whats the tally up to so far? theres no way i could ever afford the parts you're putting in to yours and will settle for however mine turns out.

i admire your dedication.

p.s. love laverdas. thank your mechanic for me for posessing automotive porn.

[RickB]

@ Aladinsane07: You're tellling me! I'm at the point now where I'm starting to talk about registration again and it's kinda' scary.

@ FT20BAS: Trust me, I never intended to go this far when I bought it. I read my first posts and think of how naive I was. Still, I'm loving it now that I'm into it and can't believe how much fun it is.

However it certainly has been more money than I initially wanted to spend. So far I've been able to justify it because the resale market for bikes here in Australia is quite strong. Just the other day I saw a Yamaha SR400 on sale for $9000. My mate sold his looked after but not restored CB250 for $6000.

If I do a quick 'back of the envelope' estimate on my costs so far:

$1000 for bike.
$300 for shipping.
$150 for initial mechanic inspection (what a joke that was
$2000 for multiple David Silver Spares orders
$350 for powder coating frame and other parts.
$100 for brake disc
$250 for K&S switches
$150 headlight and bucket mounts
$400 for mini gauges, mini turn signals and visor
$250 for Honda switches (decided against K&S ones, too modern)
$100 for used forks
$150 new headers
$250 NOS cam shaft
$800 for engine mechanic and hydroblasting
$150 for wheel lacing
$100 for spokes
$150 for tank
$400 for custom seat
$300 for other bits and pieces I can't remember (carb kits, ebay purchases etc)

That's $7450.

Now there's probably another $1000 in the engine I would say, $500 for rearsets, $200 for performance springs and cam chain, $300 for tyres, $100 for stainless brake line and probably other bits and pieces.

That's a further $2100.

Wow, I'd never added it up before... Might need a stiff drink!

Nah, to tell you the truth, I really enjoy it, intend to keep the bike for a long time (it'll sit in the garage next to my Dad's '71 Karman Ghia cabriolet and '71 BMW 3.0 CS and I'll be stoked everytime I ride it.

I have learnt lessons though. Spend the extra money at the start. If I'd spent $4000 at the start instead of $1000, I wouldn't have had to spend nearly as much on it just to get in close to running. I've essentially built a new bike out of parts on this.

Good times, good times.

Rick.

[RickB]

Hi all,

I got into the shed last night with my mate Rhys and made some good progress. This time it's putting parts on the bike for a change.



Here's the fork lowers after polishing and clear coating. There are a few imperfections where the cotton wrap has imprinted the weave of the material into the clear coat. I'm guessing they were wrapped before fully drying at the painters. A rookie mistake but it's minor and I don't care. I think they look fantastic.





New seals, new boots and finally back on. I was thinking about buying some 20mm dampeners from a guy on the CB400F Yahoo user group. He reckon's they improve the handling as the stock springs lose a bit rebound over 30 odd years. I'm not sure but I haven't filled them yet just in case.



Upgrading the swingarm bushings with some brass ones I bought on eBay. You may recall I damaged one of the fiber bushing when I installed them originally.



Getting the new old ones out was just as difficult as I remembered. In the end I just used a screw driver to break them out. Wasn't a lot of fun with all the grease in there.





Using my mates car jack was a trick I learnt last time. Much better than hammering away and damaging everything. It still took a few goes to get it right but that was because of my average jack setup more than the process.



Installing Dyna coils.



I quickly found that they don't fit in the stock holders. Anyone have a nice clean solution to this? Just cut off one half of the holder?

On another note. I purchase 3ohm coils with my Dyna electronic ignition on advice from the salesman that 'Thetechs at Dyna recommend the 3 ohm coils when they are installed withthe Dyna S ignition. The 5 ohm coils are needed when the stock pointsare used.' However I have read on this forum that the 3ohm coils will drain the battery. I'm worried about this because of my halogen headlight. I've emailed Dyna for their opinion as I can exchange the coils if needed (albeit with the cost of shipping back to the US).



Rebuilding the master cylinder. This is as tricky as you think. Small parts, little in the way of instructions and no correct tools.



I'm using the old piston to illustrate how I was able to use a cable tie to slip the rubber seal over the piston ridge by sliding the cable tie under it and pulling it over. Cable ties really can be used for anything!







Master cylinder on with new compound levers. So happy! I probably should use some touch up paint on the cap. I like the colour.

Alright, that's it. The next shipment to arrive will have CB350F switches (I've changed my mind on the K&S switches) and hopefully the complete wheels! Come on rolling frame!

Rick.

[HedNut]

Wow... you're really gonna have a beautiful bike when you're done man!
Cheers!

[RickB]

Good things are happening!

Went into see Deluxe Kustoms to go over the tank. Deluxe are restoring the old mans '71 BMW 3.0 CS. We talked about what to do with the colours and the pinstripe and then took it around to a pinstripe guy who had his way with a sharpie and a Pantone colour chart.



















One thing I'm trying to do with the tank and the guys doing it is respect their artistic license. They're the pros, I want them to have input and respect their work. Hopefully it'll turn out better that I had first imagined. Above is a mock-up I put together of what we talked about. I think there was talk of having a pinstripe in an off white/ivory to match the tank emblem colour but I'm not sure. I want the paint to be gloss but not metallic.

What do you all think?



Working in the shed.



Finally picked up the wheels from Pablo's Motorcycle Tyres. $220 for the tyres, tubes, rim tape and labour. So cheap I reckon and such a good job.



But everything back together. It was difficult getting the bearing retainer in. How far does this normally screw down? It's not flush with the hub but I feel like it's as far in as I could screw it.



Brake caliper swingarm. Note that I did buy o-rings for this part. I didn't know I was so OCD but if a part goes on without a washer or o-ring that was supposed to have one, I can't stop fretting over it.







I know the fender is supposed to go on first, but I haven't conditioned that yet (gonna' chop done by rusted beat-up one and buy a new one one day for originality purposes).





Front wheel on! Albeit with a few things missing, but I just needed to see it on.

I tried putting the center and side stands back together but for the life of me, I couldn't figure out how to get the springs onto their hooks. They're just so tight and I'm not strong enough. Any tricks to this?

Next week I'm going for rear tyre and to finish up the handle bars and switches.

Rick.