Topic: Oil pressure light on after highway speeds?

[MetalHead550]

Good to know.  With the Triumph the oil screen IS the filter though, no oil filter element, just a cylinder of mesh that pops out with 4 bolts.  That got pulled and rinsed after the flush so Im not worried,  but Ill be carefull with what I give that treatment to.

[csendker]

So, if I have no idea about the maintenance history of the engine and want to clean it out, should I considering an attempt to do a big-time clean-out (diesel flush or whatever), or try a methodical clean-out (detergent oil and very frequent changes)?  If methodical, to minimize the potential of major de-gunking that might clog something up, how about something like 2.2 qts. regular and 1 qt. detergent with oil changes & new filter every week?

[bryanj]

DO NOT under any circumstances use flushing oil in a Honda ( or Diesel, kero or anything else)

[KB02]

So, if I have no idea about the maintenance history of the engine and want to clean it out, should I considering an attempt to do a big-time clean-out (diesel flush or whatever), or try a methodical clean-out (detergent oil and very frequent changes)?  If methodical, to minimize the potential of major de-gunking that might clog something up, how about something like 2.2 qts. regular and 1 qt. detergent with oil changes & new filter every week?

I would say your best bet would be the detergent oil. Use it full blast in the bike and run it for a couple hundred miles (of various speeds and such) then change it again for regular oil. That's what I would do anyway.

[TwoTired]

A few low invasive things you can do given your current reported situation.
Take off the valve tappet covers and look at the internal surfaces with a flashlight.  Look for any deposits on the internal metal surfaces.  Will it mash off with your finger?
If it's been running a detergent oil most of it's life, these surfaces should be pretty clean. A buildup of more than 1/32 -1/16 inch would be of concern.  You can also look in the dipstick hole and an the dipstick itself for deposits.

I believe for your bike,  I would remove the oil pressure sending unit and cafefully examine the hole where it receives oil pressure, and the hole that provides pressure for the unit.  If you find blockage or resrtiction there, it may be the cause of your oil light indication.  These can be cleaned (careful not to pierce the diaphram) and returned for service.  They can also be tested or the bike to see if they indicate at the 5-7 lb range.  If there is evidence it has been leaking, then replace it.

If there is positive evidence of oil scale or sludge deposits throughout the engine, then I would drop the oil pan and examine the oil pickup screen for any blockage and clean it.

If you find deposits, blockage, etc., then you can be reasonably sure that in prior life the engine received non-detergent oil and/or poor oil change intervals.

If all looks reasonably clean, and the oil sender checks out.  Then simply change the filter and oil with a 10-40W motorcycle rated oil and see if the oil light still shows at hot idle.  If you are certain you will never operate the engine below, say, 40 degrees F, then use a 20-50W multigrade oil.  The thinner oil lubes the engine much better during cold startup than a thicker oil.  But, if course it will not stay as thick as a higher weight oil under extreme heat conditions.

Good Luck!

[dusterdude]

unless your gonna run straight 30 weight i dont think you can buy a non detergent oil in any other grade.

[TwoTired]

unless your gonna run straight 30 weight i dont think you can buy a non detergent oil in any other grade.

True.

Do you know what's been used in his bike?

[csendker]

No idea what's in it.  I have Rotella T 15W-40 waiting to go in, is that a detergent oil?.  I'll try some of the inspections you mentioned, but I'm going to have to look most of it up in the manual.  No clue where the oil pressure sending unit is or how to test it, or the whereabouts of the oil pickup screen.  I should probably get some new gaskets before I start pulling it apart.  It looks like I'm going to become real familiar with changing the oil next year no matter what.

[MetalHead550]

Good tips.  Cleaning the oil screen is regular maintenace that alot of people probably overlook.  Both the oil screen and pump are actually quite easy to get to.  After you drain your oil just drop the pan which is held on around its perimiter by 10mm bolts.  The screen is right there and just pops out after you remove the rubber hose attached to it.  Dont worry about the oil pan gasket unless its already leaking, its actually a rubber o-ring type so it should be fine.  You can go ahead and get to your pump at this point too since the oil is drained.  On the chain side of the motor, you just remove the gear selector lever then take out the 4 phillips head bolts(an impact driver could prove invaluable for this) and the cover comes off.  No parts, fluids, or gaskets are gonna fly out, its just a simple cover.  The pump is in the upper left corner, has a sensor on it with black and red wires(I think) and theres just 2 or 3 screws holding it in.   

[MetalHead550]

Oh yeah,

DO NOT under any circumstances use flushing oil in a Honda ( or Diesel, kero or anything else)

Tell us why.  Not being a smart ass I really want too know.  What about a Triumph?......to late! 

[csendker]

Ok, so now I know how to get to the oil pressure sending unit and visually check for gunk.  How do you test it to see if it's working right?  And the only replacement I could find is from Dave Silver:  "CB550K3 : Oil pressure switch  ....  £18.50"

It's for a 550 K3.  I have a K1; are these compatible?  And just how much $US is £18.50?

As for cold weather riding, this is Buffalo.  I've already taken it to work when it in the upper 20's, lower 30's.  Our season is short enough, if I stopped riding at 40 deg., I'd never get out (ha, ha!).  I do draw the line at snow.

[TwoTired]

18.5 British Pound = 31.78485 US Dollar

http://www.oanda.com/convert/classic

May be some import duties and shipping, too.

I think I would try the local Honda dealer first, though.  You do have a phone book, don't you.

All the Cb550 oil press send units are the same, regardless of year, to my knowledge.

As for testing.  I have a hand pump (Mity vac), and I would cobble up some way to adapt it to the removed unit.  Place an ohmmeter across the connector lead and the body of the unit.  There should be continuity while at rest.  Pump up the pressure and when the meter changes, that's when you read the pressure on the pump dial.  If it's within 5-7 lbs, its good,  If its 15 or 20, then you know why you get the oil light.

[csendker]

Phone book?  I know we have one somewhere around here...

I did look in the FAQ's, and oddly enough, your local freindly neighborhood Honda dealer isn't mentioned anywhere.  I assume I should be looking into Honda Motorcycle dealers, as opposed to Honda Auto dealers.  Unfortunately, the most local one just went under this summer, so it's going to a bit more of a hike.  I wouldn't have expected Honda to still have an obscure part to a 30 year old bike.  I think I may need to take a field trip and have a chat with the parts guy to see what they can get and if anyone there has any clues about CB's.

I'm not quite ready to tear into the engine, low-intrusion or not.  The Uni air filter just came in.  I'm going to pop the air filter in, change the oil, poke around a bit and hope for another day or two to run it before I hang it up for the winter.  Then I'll start digging.

[csendker]

Well, I hit the garage today.  I dropped in the new Uni air filter, and changed the oil & oil filter.  The old oil filter was pretty black & grimey (see pic).  So was the oil.  I popped off one of the tappet covers and didn't see much gunk or scale (see pic).  I also pulled one of the plugs.  Black & sooty - see other pic.  It wasn't a true plug test, just yanked it after a quick run around the block after the oil change.

It was only around the block, but it ran great after all of this.  Good acceleration and no popping on under-gear slow down's.

I'm thinking this winter I will clean out the pickup screen & whatever else I can get to easily.  I'm going to do a whole bunch of oil changes next year, trying to flush the thing out.  Hopefully this will end the oil light issue.

The sooty plug, however is another story.  Obviously, I'm running rich.  I guess I'll be running up the learning curve for carbs this winter.

[TwoTired]

Looks pretty good and clean inside the engine.  Outside, egads, snow.
I'm not sure I would drop the pan or even futz with oil sender until I ran it hard, hot, and checked for the oil light at idle.  If the indication persists, with clean, new, oil, then check into those things for sure.

Multi-vis oil undergoes a change when heated that makes it appear black.  It will still be transluscent and clean after your first ride to full operating temperature.  Dirty old oil will also be black, perhaps going toward grey color, and very dirty oil wil become muddy and more opaque.

Something you should get into a routine doing is checking through the pleats on the outside of the oil filter.  What you don't want to find are shiny pieces of glittering metal down in the base of the filter pleats.  This would be called "making metal" and actually means there are bits missing in the motor you wish really had stayed there.  You can save an engine from catastrophe, or simply keep yourself from being stranded with a blown motor if you find this at oil change time, instead of later.

The spark plugs don't look all that bad with what little detail there is in the pic.  The center electrode insulator seems to have brown deposits instead of the desireable tan/light tan.  But, I can believe it runs well if all the other plugs are similarly indicative.  Were these cleaned before your little test run.  Or, are these from conditions prior?  What are the numbers stamped on them?

You could compare your plugs too:
http://www.dansmc.com/Spark_Plugs/Spark_Plugs_catalog.html
for a comparison toward what is desireable.


I've forgotten how your bike differs from stock configuration.

[Bob Wessner]

The spark plugs don't look all that bad with what little detail there is in the pic.  The center electrode insulator seems to have brown deposits instead of the desireable tan/light tan.

It appears the snow in the background forced the plug to be somewhat under exposed. I tweaked the pic a bit and the center electrode doesn't look bad at all.

[csendker]

It's stock as far as I know but for the Uni & 4-1 exhaust. Plugs: NGK D7EA; haven't touched them except for pulling out #1 to take a peek.  There was some black soot around the perimeter, as a minimum.  I will try a real plug chop next time I can. I'll have to look back for the details.

And the snow...UGH.  I was slippin' and slidin' in the slop at the end of the drive, but the roads are clear & dry.

[csendker]

Good news!!  I took it for a run down the local expressway today.  Ran 70 mph for about 25 miles with no problems (3@,700 RPM).  When I got off and puttered around a bit, no oil light at idle, and it purred like a kitten.  Of course, it sure as hell isn't 70 deg. outside, so it's not an identical test.

[csendker]

Something you should get into a routine doing is checking through the pleats on the outside of the oil filter.  What you don't want to find are shiny pieces of glittering metal down in the base of the filter pleats.  This would be called "making metal" and actually means there are bits missing in the motor you wish really had stayed there.  You can save an engine from catastrophe, or simply keep yourself from being stranded with a blown motor if you find this at oil change time, instead of later.

And I fished the old filter out of the trash to check; no glitters in the pleats, just a dirty, old filter.  Whew.

Thanks all.

[Klark Kent]

I have the same bike (550k1) and now the same problem as csendker.  I just started taking the bike out on 30 mile trips and today i noticed my oil light was on at a stop light.  My oil is new (10w-40 "motorcycle" oil) filter is new.  my needles are set one notch in the rich direction "to ensure against running lean" and my valves are set at .003 and .004 for the same reason.  I am pretty certain one or both of these things is my problem, but after reading all five pages of csendker's issue, and finding that an oil change fixed it? i thought i would resurect the thread and ask if anyone thinks i should try changing the oil before i move the clips or reset my valves at the recommended .002 and .003 gaps.  I was not on the highway, but I was reving around 4k-5k, so I am fairly sure thisis the same issue.  On that tip, should i be shifting up to 5th gear to go 40mph, it seems more natural to be in 3rd or 4th reving between 4 and 5k than upshifting and reving at 2k.  any help appreciated as always. 

-KK

csendker- i am just going to read all your past posts, because every problem i run into was your problem last year!  thanks for being my 550k1 advance team.

[Klark Kent]

one other thing is that at first the oil pressure light would come on around 1k rpm, but  by the time i got home i had to rev up to almost 3k to lose the light.  I believe it was borkunit had a similar problem but i have no hissing when i take the dipstick out and the brether tube coming out of the rocker cover cover is open to the atmo.  i dont seem to have a crankcase breather.  Should i just add velocity stacks and see what happens?  c'mon fellahs?
-KK

[csendker]

Sorry for the slow response, been on the road near all August so far, home for 3 days and now I'm off to San Fran in 6 hours.  The slow deterioration of the oil pressure, and the need to keep the RPM's higher and higher is exactly what I experienced.  I can't say what the actual RPM's I was running as the tach is an aftermarket that is reading way low, thank you PO.  Either that or by straight line extrapolation, I can push my bike to 190 mph.  Anyway, I ran about 60 miles down the Thruway at about 65~70 mph on a hot day.  Went to a meeting for an hour or so, and came back via the secondary highways.  It was on the way home that I had my problem.  With each stop, I had to keep the RPM's progressively higher to turn the damn idiot light off.  Thankfully, it was a simple oil change that did it for me~I was running with whatever came with the bike when I bought it and if I recall correctly the level may have been a bit high - but that was a year ago and I'm on my 5th beer tonight.  Now I'm running Shell Rotella-T 15W-40, straight dino oil and Fram filters from Wally-world.

I would suggest a full oil change with filter and then resetting the valves and needles back to stock and then running some plug chops to see how everything is running~rich, lean or right-on.  Of course, the rest of your set-up will affect all of this: air filter, stock box, pods, exhaust, etc.

And to pod or not to pod, that is the question.  Whether 'tis nobler in the mind to suffer the slings and arrows of outrageous airflow...it's a highly personal question.  I'm a fan of the stock air box and foam Uni filter and not big on pods, but others will swear by them, it's up to you.  If you do go with them, be prepared to rejet up a bit to compensate for the increased air flow.  You'll definetly need to run some plug chops to zero in on the proper settings.

The crankcase breather comment has me thinking some - any smell of gas in the oil?  That would thin the viscosity and cause the pressure to drop some.  Other things may be a crappy sending unit, or a leaking oil pump.  My shifter seal was blown and dripping oil.  I fixed that only to find that I have a slight weep coming out of my oil pump.  Another project for this winter maybe, it's not that bad but if you have a nasty leak that may be mistaken for a blown shifter seal...it may impact the pressure but I would think that would be a constant issue, not fluctuating.

550K1 Advance Team out.

[Klark Kent]

at ease advance team.
glad to hear youve been beating th e heat the old fashioned way (holding on to something that is going 30-70mph)  I have been moving zero miles per hour.  I went out to see if the oil light would come back on, and it id, with a vengance, after only about 5 miles of riding.  I hightailed it home, but got caught in preseason game traffic (saend me a freaking schedule so i can board up my house like you do with regular season you bastards, but i digress)  long story short I managed to be looking down at my oil light while my space cushion was rapidly disintegrating, trying to keep my revs high enough to see that the oil light would still go out, and then I look up.  must h ave panicked and locked the front wheel, because down I went... at 5mph.  Hit hard enough to make  me walk funny- and bend my bars.  so i have a line on a set of superbike bars and I have all the oil out of the bike waiting on a filter I will get today.  Now i need a bar change and an oil change and the problem could still be there.  GRRRR.   I have been collecting parts for a dual disc conversion, and my front tire is not in great shape, so I will tackle those things too and probably not run her for a week.  this gives me time to take the exhaust off and the oil pan and look at ye old pickup screen.  I know there's a silver lining here somewhere.
thanks as always for your advanceness.
-KK

[Klark Kent]

wow Klark that's a real humdinger.
yeah Klark, i don't know what I'm gonna do
well, you know Klark, you should take it one thing at a time and not get overwhelmed
yeah you are right Klark, i should.  thanks

I thought i would update the situation.  and see if anyone else wants to join in my conversation. 

yesterday saw an oil change and a front tire swap.  I decided to get some castrol gtx not motorcycle oil, because there was a likelyhood of having to immediately dump the oil and check the pickup screen and moto oil aint cheap as you know, and i am as you will learn.  the locking the front wheel and falling over problem seems to have been fixed.  the oil change did not fix the oil light problem though.  the old oil was a beautiful color and the old filter was not infused with metal shavings.  I took her out to my trusty parking lot (still waiting on bars so wasn't going to risk a situation where bent bars and lack of control could really hurt me) and after 4 miles of high rpm circles round the lot the oil light owuld come on at a grand.  took it home and parked it.  Is the gtx not good enough or is the oil light issue something else entirely?  do i really have to remove my exhaust to get at the pickup screen?  if i just ignore the oil light will it go away?

meh
-KK

[Klark Kent]

I think imay have just connected my own dots... uh, so to speak...

My shift shaft seal leaks.  I thought perhaps that area was gunked up from yearsof chain lube, but its a leak alright because it came back after only one chain lubing isnce cleaning the are out.  I have a replacement on order but it has not arrived yet, I am afraid to open up the compartment where it is leaking until i get the replacement because last time i had quite a mess to clean up.  so this may be why i mental blocked the sending unit.  I am almost positive it is gunked up from the leaky shift shaft seal- but not sure.  when the seal arrives i will replace the old one and test the sending unit.  is this likely enough to be the problem that i can ride the bike in the meantime.  i havent noticed any differences in performance or engine temp, so a pressure switch made faulty by a leaky shift shaft seal makes a little sense to me and does not seem like a problem with the engine so much as how the engine communicates with me, which i am fine riding with 
how about now
-KK