Author Topic: ferrarcj 1980 cb650  (Read 15400 times)

0 Members and 2 Guests are viewing this topic.

ferrarcj

  • Guest
ferrarcj 1980 cb650
« on: August 01, 2009, 12:21:16 PM »
Hey everyone, I just joined and just bought myself a 1980 cb650 for 300 bucks.

Heres a picture of the bike.


Now onto my questions...

I have these carbs.


Im having a problem with the bike as it will start and run with the choke on. It runs great with the choke pulled all the time, Hot or cold.   However when i push the choke in it wolnt idle for long and when i burp the throttle it bogs out or dies. Ill post a video ASAP

What does this knob do? Its on the engine side of the carbs. It has a little tab on the side of the head....






« Last Edit: August 01, 2009, 12:34:40 PM by ferrarcj »

ferrarcj

  • Guest
Re: ferrarcj 1980 cb650
« Reply #1 on: August 01, 2009, 12:22:57 PM »
Im going to pull the carbs off real quick and snap some pictures. I need some help Id'ing some of the carb.


Im new to hondas So please bear with me on this.


Offline kslrr

  • There is always a Blaster when there is a
  • Master
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,542
  • Raising her up right!
Re: ferrarcj 1980 cb650
« Reply #2 on: August 01, 2009, 12:38:07 PM »
It sounds like you are having issues with the acc. pump and maybe the air cut-off valves.  That knob adjusts the idle mixture.  The best thing to due is remove the carbs and do a complete cleaning and rebuild replacing any warn parts.  Use only Honda rebuild kits, don't use Kester.  Most likely, you will only need to replace the rubber parts and gaskets.
Now  1972 CB350FX (experimental v2.0)
        1981 CB650c Custom with '79 engine (wifes)
        1981 CB650 engine
        2004 HD XL883C Custom
        1977 Yamaha XS750D (in progress)
Then 1972 CL175
        1964 Yamaha YGS-1T
No ride is a Bad ride

Offline CBJoe

  • Master
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,975
Re: ferrarcj 1980 cb650
« Reply #3 on: August 01, 2009, 12:40:58 PM »
That's the mixture screw.  

It's likely that your slow Jets are completely clogged up.  I'd say that it's time for a good carb cleaning.  The slow jets in the PD carbs are press fit so you'll have to carefully pull them out.  There are quite a few threads detailing this, so some quick searches should turn up a lot of info.

Regards, Joe
'07 Bonneville Black
'15 Moto Guzzi California 1400
CB750K2 Hot Rod Revival http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,171693.0.html
'65 CB77
'66 CM91 (C90'ish)

Offline manjisann

  • Hazardous Chemical Inhalation
  • Master
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,828
Re: ferrarcj 1980 cb650
« Reply #4 on: August 01, 2009, 03:21:39 PM »
Welcome to the club!!! $300 for that bike, what a steal!! Do some  searches and you'll find a ton of info on carbs and other various things, and don't be afraid to ask questions!

Brandon
Sure it's for sale! How much you ask?? Well, how much are you willing to pay??? Now triple it, that's the price!

1973 CB500 K2 - Sold the bike and bought a Mig, Miss the bike, Love the Mig :D
1980 CB650 Custom
1971 CB500 Frame 650 engine: Project

Trip and General Ramblings blog: manjisann.blogspot.com

Offline The_Crippler

  • In regards to doing it wrong, I'm an
  • Expert
  • ****
  • Posts: 1,262
  • Work in progress.
Re: ferrarcj 1980 cb650
« Reply #5 on: August 01, 2009, 06:19:44 PM »
Welcome to the club!!! $300 for that bike, what a steal!!

Yeah it is...beat me by $150, and it's already put together.

ferrarcj

  • Guest
Re: ferrarcj 1980 cb650
« Reply #6 on: August 01, 2009, 07:06:40 PM »
Cool thanks for the info. Tommorow my brother and I are going to pull the carbs and clean everything out. Im hoping to have this thing running great by the end of next week since my KTM blew a tire and i am itching to ride something!



Offline manjisann

  • Hazardous Chemical Inhalation
  • Master
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,828
Re: ferrarcj 1980 cb650
« Reply #7 on: August 01, 2009, 08:32:50 PM »
Beat me by $200 if we only count what I paid for the FIRST one I bought, and not the second I had to buy to replace a #$%^ed up steering tube  >:(  Rant over, seriously, you may have to iron out some kinks but you'll love it. These old bikes have a class and character that none of the new bikes can compete with IMO.

Brandon
Sure it's for sale! How much you ask?? Well, how much are you willing to pay??? Now triple it, that's the price!

1973 CB500 K2 - Sold the bike and bought a Mig, Miss the bike, Love the Mig :D
1980 CB650 Custom
1971 CB500 Frame 650 engine: Project

Trip and General Ramblings blog: manjisann.blogspot.com

Offline Hush

  • Finally they realise that I am an
  • Really Old Timer ...
  • *******
  • Posts: 6,761
  • "Lady, I've heard it all before"!
Re: ferrarcj 1980 cb650
« Reply #8 on: August 01, 2009, 09:22:26 PM »
Pulling these carbs are a b*tch so don't get peed with them too quickly, even old hands have trouble with getting them off and on.
There are a few tricks to make this process easier, my favorite is the old ratchet tie-down to hold the carbs back fromt he head, makes removal a breeze.
You can reverse this to pop them back on.
Do yourself a favour and replace the wee cross head screws (4 per carb) that hold the bowls on with allen key bolts, if you have to drop the bowls after the carbs are fitted you'll quickly understand. ;)
I think the thing I most like about motorcycling is the speed at which my brain must process information at to avoid the numb skulls who are eating pies, playing the ukulele, applying make-up etc in the comfort of their airconditioned armchairs as they make random attempts to kill me!!!!!!!

Offline CBJoe

  • Master
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,975
Re: ferrarcj 1980 cb650
« Reply #9 on: August 01, 2009, 11:39:16 PM »
+1 to what Hush says... And welcome to the forum.  There's more knowledge here than I could ever fit onto my bookshelves.  

Take your time and don't try and rush things with the carbs... you will need to source some parts (such as gaskets).   The big points to check are:

1. Air-Cut-off Valves.  There's one on each carb, so you unfortunately have to separate to change them  :-[  carbs wont work right if any one of theses is bad.

2.  Pressed in slow jets.  Pull them out and clean them ALL.  Ask questions if you aren't clear on how to pull them out.

3.  Fuel Cross-over T's.  I'm pretty sure the t's are brass on the PD's, but the o-rings will need replacing.  kslrr mentioned the honda carb bits... no joke... it's worth the $$ to get the honda stuff.

4. Float height.  Set it proper or you'll set yourself up for issues (and don't install the floats upside-down like Hush did  ;D)

Biggest mistake people make with getting old bikes running is not putting the effort into the carbs right from the beginning.  So much hassle can be saved if you do it right up front (unless you LIKE pulling and installing carbs over and over  ;))

5.  Airbox and manifold boots.  If these are hard and cracked you'll have air leaks.  Replace em if you need too. Well worth the money.  The airbox boots aren't available as a spare part, but you can score extra's on e-bay if needed.  

Have fun  ;D

Cheers, Joe
 

'07 Bonneville Black
'15 Moto Guzzi California 1400
CB750K2 Hot Rod Revival http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,171693.0.html
'65 CB77
'66 CM91 (C90'ish)

Offline Hush

  • Finally they realise that I am an
  • Really Old Timer ...
  • *******
  • Posts: 6,761
  • "Lady, I've heard it all before"!
Re: ferrarcj 1980 cb650
« Reply #10 on: August 02, 2009, 12:24:15 AM »
As CBJoe said, if the carb isolators (rubberised boots from carbs to head) are cracked or split get new or better ones.
Air leaks will completely screw up your attempts at tuning the dinosaur. ;D
I think the thing I most like about motorcycling is the speed at which my brain must process information at to avoid the numb skulls who are eating pies, playing the ukulele, applying make-up etc in the comfort of their airconditioned armchairs as they make random attempts to kill me!!!!!!!

ferrarcj

  • Guest
Re: ferrarcj 1980 cb650
« Reply #11 on: August 02, 2009, 06:30:10 AM »
Ok cool thanks for the info. Heres some pics of the carbs. All in all i didnt think it was to bad getting them off.


Ok so after lots of searching i have a few questions.  I cant find a picture of what is what in the carb...




Which is the slow jet?
Idle jet?
Any other jet?
I found a good link for setting float height so ill be doing that.

Should i just go ahead a buy full rebuild kits?
Also the accelerator pump? Do they make a rebuild for it? Its the thing on the No.2 carb correct?

ferrarcj

  • Guest
Re: ferrarcj 1980 cb650
« Reply #12 on: August 02, 2009, 06:41:14 AM »
Also is this the correct kit for the bike?

KH-0996N  carb kit  CB650  *  $20.00 
http://olypen.com/retro/

Its under the carb page almost at the bottem.

Offline MickeyX

  • Master
  • *****
  • Posts: 2,153
Re: ferrarcj 1980 cb650
« Reply #13 on: August 02, 2009, 07:40:03 AM »
Nope, that's not the kit you want. The '79 and '80 have the same carbs. '81-up have different ones. Unfortunately, they are expensive for our '80 bikes. You'll likely pay around $35-40 per carb. You can look up carb kits for the '79 to be sure you have the right ones. Many advertise the wrong kit for the '80 or say it's good for all years.

That's a good looking bike ya have there! Have fun swearing at it. ;D It really is a nice ride when it's all done. 
1969 CL350 Scrambler... almost done!!! Well, until something else goes wrong. :)
2006 HD 883 Sportster, stock. No use changing it, it's still gonna be a Harley.

Offline CBJoe

  • Master
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,975
Re: ferrarcj 1980 cb650
« Reply #14 on: August 02, 2009, 07:40:28 AM »
No.  That kit is for the CB Carbs on the '81 and later CB650's.
Here's a reference pic.

Cheers, Joe
'07 Bonneville Black
'15 Moto Guzzi California 1400
CB750K2 Hot Rod Revival http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,171693.0.html
'65 CB77
'66 CM91 (C90'ish)

Offline CBJoe

  • Master
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,975
Re: ferrarcj 1980 cb650
« Reply #15 on: August 02, 2009, 08:06:39 AM »
What kind of budget are you looking for on this? 

The best suggestion is to get the carb parts from Honda.  But if $$ is short, the Keyster Kits are OK (if you can find them).  Just cheaper and not as good of quality. 

Problem is just as MickeyX said... the kits for the PD carbs are not readily available and you need to be careful that you don't buy the wrong stuff.

Cheers, Joe
'07 Bonneville Black
'15 Moto Guzzi California 1400
CB750K2 Hot Rod Revival http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,171693.0.html
'65 CB77
'66 CM91 (C90'ish)

ferrarcj

  • Guest
Re: ferrarcj 1980 cb650
« Reply #16 on: August 02, 2009, 08:39:53 AM »
Im not too concerned with budget. Im not rich. But am willing to do some OT for the cash.

Ill look into those kits.

I just pulled the slow jet and they were clogged up pretty good.

Whats the factory starting point for the mixture screw?
1 1/2 turn out?
« Last Edit: August 02, 2009, 09:33:48 AM by ferrarcj »

Offline CBJoe

  • Master
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,975
Re: ferrarcj 1980 cb650
« Reply #17 on: August 02, 2009, 11:18:12 AM »
Take a look in the FAQ for good part resources and technical references.

http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=743.0

I particularly like the parts fisch on servicehonda.com

http://www.servicehonda.com/

Cheers, Joe
'07 Bonneville Black
'15 Moto Guzzi California 1400
CB750K2 Hot Rod Revival http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,171693.0.html
'65 CB77
'66 CM91 (C90'ish)

Offline Frankenkit

  • Industrial Strength
  • Really Old Timer ...
  • *******
  • Posts: 6,525
  • 2012 CBR250R, 72 CL350, Member #4600
Re: ferrarcj 1980 cb650
« Reply #18 on: August 02, 2009, 11:29:08 AM »
reference this, too:
http://www.sohc4.net/index.php?q=node/322

The keyster parts will be just fine.  I'd use just a touch of grease on the o-rings when fitting them to try to make sure they don't get pinched.  FYI, the accelerator pump diaphragm and air cutoff diaphragms do NOT come with either of the rebuild kits- those you need to find separately.  I think we found our accel. pump and air cutoff diaphragms here.

To clean our carbs, I separated them down into all their little component parts and soaked em in warm simplegreen 50/50 with water.

To clean out the little orifices between and throughout the carbs, I use Brakekleen (and gloves! and goggles!) and make sure everything flows smoothly.  These carbs have a lot of little internal passages and they're all pretty important, which is a massive pain.  A point of focus is (are?) the accelerator pump passageways. The longer, thinner silver tube above the thicker, brass one  in your pic is the accel pump tube.  Stick the spray tube for your Brakekleen can in where the fuel tube sticks in and spray like crazy. If you're lucky, a little will sputter out the brass post in the main throat of the carb.  Keep spraying until you get a nice, solid spray out that post.  Repeat with them ALL. 

Soon, you, too, will completely hate these carbs.  :D
« Last Edit: August 02, 2009, 11:55:31 AM by Kit »
"Moderation in all things - especially moderation. Too much moderation is excessive. The occasional excess is all part of living the moderate life."
2012 CBR250R "Black Betty"
1980 CB650c- (sold) Delilah
1973 CL350- Lola?
Sweet, bubbly, Buddha - Say it ain't so!!!
Stuff for sale

Offline MickeyX

  • Master
  • *****
  • Posts: 2,153
Re: ferrarcj 1980 cb650
« Reply #19 on: August 02, 2009, 12:21:18 PM »
Yeah, they are a PITA. OMFG.  :D Get them bench synched and then use a good carb synch tool, like the Morgan, to get them really smooth. You'll notice the difference. I saw you posted where you live which is good. It is helpful to you to let people know generally what state/country you live in cuz I've found the people on this site very willing to help and they have some cool tools.  ;D

The boots can get hard so check them to see if they are shot or can be saved. I think Kit and some others suggest using wintergreen to revive them. It's so important to have a good seal at the headers too. Honda has the crush washers for $4.50+ but I think Z1 has them for 1/2 that but you'll have to wait a few days for them to arrive. I'll double check....

yeah, $2.32 each. http://www.z1enterprises.com/detail.aspx?ID=1954

Good luck.
1969 CL350 Scrambler... almost done!!! Well, until something else goes wrong. :)
2006 HD 883 Sportster, stock. No use changing it, it's still gonna be a Harley.

Offline cb650

  • Old Timer
  • ******
  • Posts: 3,864
Re: ferrarcj 1980 cb650
« Reply #20 on: August 02, 2009, 02:31:14 PM »
Clean the tank and petcock also.
18 grand and 18 miles dont make you a biker

ferrarcj

  • Guest
Re: ferrarcj 1980 cb650
« Reply #21 on: August 02, 2009, 04:21:57 PM »
Ok so i got the tank cleaned, Petcock cleaned, and am still working on the carbs....

The rubber tubes (4) that connects the carbs to the engine is DEFF going to need to be replaced. So thats on the to buy list..  Now i just need to find them, the keyster carb rebuilds and maybe the accel pump parts if i need them.


Is there a test for the accel pump on each carb to see if they are indeed bad? They are kinda expensive to replace if i dont need to and i would like to buy everythign togather if possible....

Offline CBJoe

  • Master
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,975
Re: ferrarcj 1980 cb650
« Reply #22 on: August 02, 2009, 04:41:21 PM »

The Accel pump is ONLY on the # 2 Carb.  The Air Cut-off Valves are what's on the side of each carb. 
I don't know of a good way to test them as they are an Air Circuit and not something that can be checked without a visual inspection. 

I can tell you that my carbs were in pretty good shape, but when I took them all apart, 2 of the 4 diaphragms were damaged beyond function. 

Joe
'07 Bonneville Black
'15 Moto Guzzi California 1400
CB750K2 Hot Rod Revival http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,171693.0.html
'65 CB77
'66 CM91 (C90'ish)

ferrarcj

  • Guest
Re: ferrarcj 1980 cb650
« Reply #23 on: August 02, 2009, 04:51:16 PM »
Is the air circuit 74.52 EACH????

http://www.cyclepartswarehouse.com/fiche_section_detail.asp?section=123668&category=MOTORCYCLES&make=HONDA&year=1980&fveh=2955

Number 14 is it correct?

WOW

Ok so im going to order 4 new boots for inbetween the carbs and motor. Since mine are falling into pieces. Im going to check the air citcuit things right now, Ill post some pics in a bit.

Thanks for the help so far.
 ;D

Offline CBJoe

  • Master
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,975
Re: ferrarcj 1980 cb650
« Reply #24 on: August 02, 2009, 05:13:18 PM »
#14 is correct, but that's for the WHOLE thing including the Valve Housing Cover.

Parts N More has them for $16 a piece.

https://www.partsnmore.com/cat_index.php?model=cb650_sohc&category=carb

Joe
'07 Bonneville Black
'15 Moto Guzzi California 1400
CB750K2 Hot Rod Revival http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,171693.0.html
'65 CB77
'66 CM91 (C90'ish)