Author Topic: 76 SS drive chain - i give up! (Read 3291 times)

gregk · « **on:** August 06, 2009, 12:22:33 pm »

i've had this bike for 20 years and put about 25,000 miles on it. The majority of these miles are put on at 1000 mile stretches each year Everything is great except the final drive chain. I can't keep a chain on the bike for more than 3000 miles. I've tried new sprockets and chains, cheap and expensive chains and sprockets, new chain on old sprockets, new sprockets with old chains and all combinations wear out. This is not a matter of alignment or maintenance, although i don't clean and lube the chain at 200 mile intervals but do lube the chain on a daily basis. I'm thinking about a conversion to a 630 chain/sprocket set up but during a search, it appears alot of people are going the other way ( 630 to 530).
Anybody had any luck with this conversion?

greg

Triffecpa · « **Reply #1 on:** August 06, 2009, 01:55:57 pm »

Greg

How are you determining that the chain is worn out? The way that I check is to pull on the chain as it sits on the rear sprocket at about the 3 o'clock position (facing the sprocket from the left side of the bike). If you can pull the chain back and expose half of a sprocket tooth, then the chain is pretty well worn. This isolates the chain and determines the amount of slop in the pins and bushings on each link. Simply having the chain go back to the rear of the adjuster range doesn't mean that it's work out. It could mean that it's got one too many links in it.

I'd stick with the 530 chain. it's much more common than the 630 and you can buy a better quality chain in that size. that said, I tend to buy less expensive ones anyway and just change them a bit more often.

Also, I don't automatically change sprockets when I change chains. If the sprocket teeth have a smooth and symetrical appearance, then I leave them there. When sprockets wear out, the teethc tend to have a "wave cresting" shape to them. Front sprockets rarely wear out in my experience.

Tracy

gregk · « **Reply #2 on:** August 06, 2009, 02:47:13 pm »

tracy

Exposing about half of the sprocket tooth on the rear has been my guidline to determine if the chain is worn out. The chains are good for the first while then its a matter of adjusting them every day until I can almost pull them off the sprocket. i must have three sets of used sprockets now and they all look like they are in good shape. The chains are a different matter. the only reason I would like to use a 630 chain is a friend has a Suzi 1100 and i don't think he has ever adjusted the chain on that bike, and it make me mad.

greg

Hush · « **Reply #3 on:** August 06, 2009, 03:11:36 pm »

A set of sprockets will outlast 3 chains easy and the front one probably 4.
I would seriously check the tension you are putting on your chains, sometimes we get used to doing things and think it is the correct way, not saying you made any errors but perhaps recheck the bike manual for youe machine to see what they reccommend in the way of play once correctly adjusted.

honda750k · « **Reply #4 on:** August 06, 2009, 03:24:11 pm »

The fronts usually wear out faster tan rears in my experience. a REAR will usually last something close to 60k miles through about 3-4 chains before its worn out, but fronts, due to their smaller rotating diameter wear faster.

That said, post up your maintenance regimen for your chain, what you use to lube it, how you ride, etc. I've had 520 chains that dont need adjusting but I ride gentle as hell, and lube it way too much.

If you get a 630 chain, Tsubaki makes a REALLY heavy duty drag chain that i ran on myold ZX1000, and it doesnt wear under street riding. its a frikkin mack truck heft and size wise.

lone*X · « **Reply #5 on:** August 06, 2009, 03:50:52 pm »

Anyone ever do a belt conversion on the SOHC's? That would be sweet!

HavocTurbo · « **Reply #6 on:** August 06, 2009, 03:53:59 pm »

I used to run 630 chains on my kawi turbo750. Tsubaki works great but I prefer the EK. Seemed to last longer for what I was doing.

Last year I switched to a 530 HD "drag" chain and wouldn't look back. Same tensile strength almost as the 630 but about a 1/3 of the weight. Plus there's way more sprocket options and chains available.

Just my $0.02

L.A. Nomad........ · « **Reply #7 on:** August 06, 2009, 04:21:00 pm »

Do you have shorting/lowering blocks??? I had a set on my CB550 and it ate my chains and sprockets up fast! New chain worn out 3-4 months, I average 900-1000 miles a month.

Stock motor 81,000 miles, still runs good. Only problem is oil pump leak and noisy cam chain. I have a low mileage(20,000) motor on the bench, But I might wait till I hit 100,000 miles on my original.. Cb550 are almost bomb proof.

L.A. Nomad

honda750k · « **Reply #8 on:** August 06, 2009, 08:37:35 pm »

Quote from: L.A. Nomad........ on August 06, 2009, 04:21:00 pm

Stock motor 81,000 miles, still runs good. Only problem is oil pump leak and noisy cam chain. I have a low mileage(20,000) motor on the bench, But I might wait till I hit 100,000 miles on my original.. Cb550 are almost bomb proof.

L.A. Nomad

ALMOST? I think that a nuclear holocaust could happen TONIGHT and the 550 would still start right up tomorrow morning.

bryanj · « **Reply #9 on:** August 07, 2009, 02:03:19 am »

3-5,000 out of a standard 530 chain is what we used to recon on "O" ring chain should last 5-10,000 and is OK on a 750

gregk · « **Reply #10 on:** August 07, 2009, 07:26:23 am »

The majority of the miles I put on the SS are on the highway at speeds of 120 kph plus. I generally ride the bike about 400 to 500 km/day and lube the chain at the end of the day while it's still hot. I have tried all sorts of chain lubes and really have no preference but some seem to stay on the chain longer than others. Its just the matter of adjusting the chain every day while riding! Every body says these chains should last longer than what I am experiencing. Am I riding the bike too hard?

greg

Triffecpa · « **Reply #11 on:** August 07, 2009, 07:32:22 am »

Wow, your maintenance regime is much better than mine.

Are you maybe running the chain too tight?

Sit on the bike and have a friend check the chain tension. The tension on the chain will increase as the seat moves down because of the arc that the rear wheel moves thru.

Tracy

gregk · « **Reply #12 on:** August 07, 2009, 09:19:20 am »

Tracy

i have spent hours adjusting chains with a person on the bike. I now am able to adjust the chain without a person in the seat as i now know how the chain will tighten up once someone is in the seat. i use a stick with a few hash marks to adjust the chain as per the honda instructions while the bike is on the centre stand. This method brings the chain deflection within the recommended slack.
The last chain I replaced was so distorted, that when I tried to connect the old chain to the new with a connector link to pull it through the drive sprocket, the connector link would not fit into the old chain! The pins must have worn in an oblong shape. i replaced that chain in the parking lot of a Honda dealer in Coos Bay Oregon and the dealer said he had never seen that happen to a chain.

greg

HavocTurbo · « **Reply #13 on:** August 07, 2009, 09:34:08 am »

Ok..

What about side deflection? I know that our rear drive hubs are rubber isolated and if these are worn you can create some interesting vibration and deflection.

MAybe your rubbers are so shot that your chain is actually wearing "crooked"?

Could be the reason you are seeing so much distortion.

gregk · « **Reply #14 on:** August 07, 2009, 09:44:10 am »

Turbo

i had the rear hub apart a few weeks ago to replace the sprocket and didn't notice any abnormal wear in the rubbers, but will have another look.

greg

Triffecpa · « **Reply #15 on:** August 07, 2009, 03:10:02 pm »

Quote from: gregk on August 07, 2009, 09:19:20 am

Tracy

i have spent hours adjusting chains with a person on the bike. I now am able to adjust the chain without a person in the seat as i now know how the chain will tighten up once someone is in the seat. i use a stick with a few hash marks to adjust the chain as per the honda instructions while the bike is on the centre stand. This method brings the chain deflection within the recommended slack.
The last chain I replaced was so distorted, that when I tried to connect the old chain to the new with a connector link to pull it through the drive sprocket, the connector link would not fit into the old chain! The pins must have worn in an oblong shape. i replaced that chain in the parking lot of a Honda dealer in Coos Bay Oregon and the dealer said he had never seen that happen to a chain.

greg

Once again, your technique is much more sophisticated than mine. I'm just gonna have to go with the idea that you have incredibly bad luck with chains, because I can't think of any other logical answer.

There are shaft drive Hondas available...

TR

gregk · « **Reply #16 on:** August 11, 2009, 10:48:33 am »

TR

I have a shaft drive Honda, 84 Gold Wing and am appreciating it more and more every day.

greg

1974CB750rider · « **Reply #17 on:** August 11, 2009, 12:24:34 pm »

I have an O-ring chain on my 750K4 that came from Old Bike Barn and bought sprokets at the same time as well. That was over 10000 miles ago. I've yet to adjust my chain since I put these on. This is only my opinion but I base this on what a retired Honda tech has told me. Never run a new chain on old sprokets. I've lived by this rule since I was a kid riding dirtbikes. As far as shaft drives go, on goldwings they're great but if you notice all performance bikes have chains and the reason is they can handle more torque than a belt.

Jerry Rxman Griffin aka MuthaF'er · « **Reply #18 on:** August 11, 2009, 06:16:39 pm »

You haven't mentioned the tensile strengths of your chains. Find one with 10,000lbs+. You should be able to find a 530 oring close to 12,000lbs. Seems like you're on top of the mainternance issue but I'd bet you are using low strength chains. My F has gone through quite a few chains too but the one I have now (EK/RK??) seldom needs adjusting and I run the #$%* outta it when I'm on it. Only markings I can find on it is 5050. Search EK 5050 / RK 5050. The previous cheaper chains I used might need adjusting every week.

HavocTurbo · « **Reply #19 on:** August 11, 2009, 11:38:04 pm »

Quote from: 1974CB750rider on August 11, 2009, 12:24:34 pm

I have an O-ring chain on my 750K4 that came from Old Bike Barn and bought sprokets at the same time as well. That was over 10000 miles ago. I've yet to adjust my chain since I put these on. This is only my opinion but I base this on what a retired Honda tech has told me. Never run a new chain on old sprokets. I've lived by this rule since I was a kid riding dirtbikes. As far as shaft drives go, on goldwings they're great but if you notice all performance bikes have chains and the reason is they can handle more torque than a belt.

That's not entirely true. Don't get me wrong, I'm NOT calling you an idiot. Tempers seem to run high lately and I'm just putting out conversation.

First off I'm glad OBB got you your stuff. Plenty of members here have had problems. Enough so that I havew tried to step up and offer as much as I can in terms of "consumables" for our bikes.

Second, I completely agree that new chains should NEVER be run on old sprockets. But in this case I just might do it. I'd be checking wear first.

Performance bikes have chains because you lose so much power with a shaft. If you didn't, almost every bike would have them. They are stone reliable and take WAY more punishment than a belt or chain. More power too. The loss with a shaft has yet to be overcome. Which has pretty much killed it. Sad really.

Belts are a different story. You could use a belt on a sport bike, but the tooth design on a belt isn't quite where it should be in terms of dealing with the "snappy" torque of a HP motor. Even though the big twins use a belt and have almost twice the TQ rating, they aren't as jerky as a sport bike.

What it comes down to it the engine tech not quite allowing the drive tech to keep up.

Oh wow.... that sounded condescending. I'm sorry.

1974CB750rider · « **Reply #20 on:** August 12, 2009, 04:24:13 am »

I'll agree with that. I actually got shaft and belt mixed up in my post.

But I had a few beers

HavocTurbo · « **Reply #21 on:** August 12, 2009, 10:37:56 am »

Quote from: 1974CB750rider on August 12, 2009, 04:24:13 am

I'll agree with that. I actually got shaft and belt mixed up in my post. But I had a few beers

Have another for me... I'm now alcohol free until my buddy gets married. Stupid bet when we were drunk. Go figure.

You check those rubbers yet gregk?

MCRider · « **Reply #22 on:** August 12, 2009, 11:16:57 am »

Drifting a little OT, I'll take some issue with the driveshaft comments. In the Sport Touring genre, DS do not handicap performance. My FJR is getting a little dated now, but the newer ones are even better. It puts out 125RWHP (after running thru the shaft), does nearly 140mph (not the speedo, confirmed by GPS) does 11 second 1/4 miles all with saddlebags and touring fairing. So tech on DS is now very advanced. Granted, MANY years ago, drive shafts were inferior to chains in most cases except for maintenance.

I thinik sport bikes use sprockets for ease in changing ratios, and that's about all...these days.

The new Kawasaki Concourse 14 Sport Tourer (saddlebags and fairing) does 0-60 in 2.5 seconds, with a driveshaft.

Many others have driveshafts as well. So to not get to stuck in the past, drive shafts ast least from 2000 on are not automatically a hinderance to performance. You just wouldn't want to use it in an application where different ratios are desired.

gregk · « **Reply #23 on:** August 13, 2009, 11:30:31 am »

You check those rubbers yet gregk?

Quote

I lent the bike to an Ozzie buddy and haven't seen it for a few weeks. He will be heading back in a few days so will be able to get it into the garage and have a closer look ( again) at the drive cushion rubbers. I am also now interested in the tensile strength of the chains I have purchased. Having said that, the expensive chains don't seem to last any longer than the cheap ones.

greg

Jerry Rxman Griffin aka MuthaF'er · « **Reply #24 on:** August 13, 2009, 01:01:39 pm »

Greg,

I found the info on my chain in case you're interested. It's been the best I've ever had.

RK 530S0 D/C 102 link

Jerry

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Author Topic: 76 SS drive chain - i give up! (Read 3291 times)