Author Topic: CB750 Spark Plug Fouling  (Read 13526 times)

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Offline Simpson

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CB750 Spark Plug Fouling
« on: August 06, 2009, 03:50:37 PM »
Nothing turned up in a search:

Anyone with early CB750 (K0) have issues with spark plug fouling?

(maybe from low voltage)
« Last Edit: August 06, 2009, 11:03:36 PM by simpson »
1970 CB750 K0
1975 CL/CB 360 Mix

Offline Bob Wessner

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Re: CB750 Spark Plug Foiling
« Reply #1 on: August 06, 2009, 04:14:54 PM »
I have a K0, They tend to run rich, but without a pic, it's hard to judge what it too much. What plugs are you using, what's it overall state of tune? What shape are your carbs in?
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Offline MCRider

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Re: CB750 Spark Plug Foiling
« Reply #2 on: August 06, 2009, 04:46:13 PM »
Nothing turned up in a search:

Anyone with early CB750 (K0) have issues with spark plug fouling?

(maybe from low voltage)
Dirty air filter? one by one process of elimination.
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Offline Pinhead

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Re: CB750 Spark Plug Foiling
« Reply #3 on: August 06, 2009, 04:50:48 PM »
Maybe search for "fouling" instead of "foiling." ;)
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Offline BlackMax

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Re: CB750 Spark Plug Foiling
« Reply #4 on: August 06, 2009, 06:07:53 PM »
Nothing turned up in a search:

Anyone with early CB750 (K0) have issues with spark plug fouling?

(maybe from low voltage)

Flat black plugs, I know them well. 

Voltage: could be a dying coil, bad wires, bad connection at boot

Mixture:  check all idle mixture screws?  Slow jet size?  Air emulsion holes plugged (in the carb)? Choke stuck? Main jet size?

Is this new or has it always run this way?
1978 CB750SS, 4-1 Yoshi, Pods, 3-angle valve job, ported chambers, ported intake, 41a cam

Offline Simpson

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Re: CB750 Spark Plug Fouling ***Fixed***
« Reply #5 on: August 06, 2009, 11:02:47 PM »
Good suggestions!

Just popped up suddenly the other day where it stutters from under a heavy load at 3-4k rpm range and up.

independent of throttle position

Going to start by replacing all spark plugs,

next ill blow out main jets

guess i could just drive slower... nahhh
1970 CB750 K0
1975 CL/CB 360 Mix

Offline Clutch Cargo

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Re: CB750 Spark Plug Fouling
« Reply #6 on: August 08, 2009, 05:03:55 PM »
In addition to all of the above - try DP7EA-9 plugs.  They have an extended tip.  I had to clean the plugs on my 750 K6 every 100 miles until I switched to the DP7EA-9's.

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Offline Kevin D

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Re: CB750 Spark Plug Fouling
« Reply #7 on: August 08, 2009, 08:50:07 PM »
Try 20 minutes on the freeway at a good clip to clean the plugs.

My K0 fouled plugs in stock trim, my K1 did it just the same until I reduced the main jet one size to 115. I might have lowered the needle (raised the clip) one step, but thats a bit more difficult to do.
71 CB750 K1
104,000 miles
Original Owner
———past———
70 SL100/125/150
70 Candy BlueGreen CB 750 K0
————————————————-
Former Honda parts kid/counter kid/do all
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Offline GammaFlat

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Re: CB750 Spark Plug Fouling
« Reply #8 on: August 08, 2009, 09:12:32 PM »
Sooty plugs can come from the emulsion tube vent/airhorn being plugged or partially plugged.  ....kind of a pain in the neck to clean but the results are well worth it. 
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Offline HondaMan

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Re: CB750 Spark Plug Fouling
« Reply #9 on: August 09, 2009, 08:49:02 AM »
The K0 was known for this, here's the causes you might be facing, 40 years later:

1. The jets were too rich to begin with, the emulsifier tubes too restricted, and the plugs too cold of a heat range. Taken together, then driven in town or commuting work, the bikes used a set of plugs every 500-1000 miles.

The fix for these original problems were:
The jets were reduced from 120 to 115.
The emulsifier tubes were drilled out to .039" on the upper 8 holes.
The spark plugs were changed from D8E to D8ES-L (Heat range approximately 7.5, extended tips). The ND plug X24-ES-U is far better than even this plug, which is unavailable today (except in an "R" version, will get to that later).

2. If the pipes have been changed to HM341 baffled types, the stock jetting MUST be changed to match the jetting found in the 657 series carbs: i.e., 105 or 110 mainjets, drop the needle one notch.

3. The spark advancer came on too quickly in the K0 engine, which caused a sooting problem in the range of 1800-2500 RPM (this was changed on the later model K1, and again on the K3). Run the engine above this range (3k minimum), or cut one-half turn off the spark advancer's coils to slow the spark and generate a little more low-end heat from the retarded spark. This helps. It also takes some of the suddenness out of the departure from a dead stop, civilizing it a bit in traffic.

4. Run a lower octane fuel. Today's fuels are engineered for a different flame rate from the fuels of the K0 era, so premium in those engines can cause a lot of fouling. Run midrange fuel on the hiway, regular in heavy traffic, to raise the specific heat and help clean the plugs. You'll probably also find that Shell's nitrogen formulation will help keep those plugs cleaner longer.

Spark plugs: the fouling problem was so bad on these bikes that Honda asked NGK for help in 1971. The result, in January 1972 was the D8ES-L plug, which had an extended tip and heatrange halfway between the D7E (too hot for hiway) and the D8E (too cold for heavy traffic). The extended tip helped burn off the soot during hard acceleartion (like freeway onramps), so it helped a lot. Then, in the summer of 1972, Nippon Denso (NGK's parent company) brought out their "U" series plugs, which have a smaller center electrode with an extended tip and a U-shaped ground electrode which maintains the proper gap much longer than on a standard ground strap. These instantly became a bit hit on these bikes, as they finally fit the all-around driving profile and stayed much cleaner, much longer. I use those exclusively, to this day, and put them in every bike I tune: everyone notices it immediately. Today, I have to find these plugs on line, but worth every cent, IMO. In about 1996, the D8ES-L plug was discontinued. Today, the DR8ES-L plug is again available (it probably fits some modern bike), but using these with stock coils means you should also change your sparkplug caps to new NGK non-resistor caps, if you have stock coils. The plugs have enough resistance to run that way, without the extra cap resistance.

The sandcast K0 had about 40 degrees of spark advance timing, while the diecast dropped this to about 32 degrees. The lesser one ran the plugs a bit warmer from the retarded timing, which also helped. Later model 750s had even less advance, especially those with the HM341 baffled pipes. This helped even more. By the K4, with 105 main jets, baffled pipes, 28 degree spark advancer, a little more static timing at idle, and the owner's manual recommendation of Regular Gas (instead of premium) by Honda, the plugs stayed pretty clean.

But, we won't talk about the loss of HP from these changes...  ::)

See SOHC4shop@gmail.com for info about the gadgets I make for these bikes.

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Link to Hondaman Ignition: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=67543.0

Link to My CB750 Book: https://www.lulu.com/search?adult_audience_rating=00&page=1&pageSize=10&q=my+cb750+book

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Offline Kevin D

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Re: CB750 Spark Plug Fouling
« Reply #10 on: August 09, 2009, 10:06:59 AM »
I switched to the Denso plugs this year and am liking them very much. I haven't yet drilled out my emulsifier tubes, but that will be a winter project. I'm still running Shell V-power, Super Shell back in the day. Old habits are hard to break. I like very much making improvements to this old girl. Modern tires, modern paint, tapered roller bearings in the steering, SS brake lines.  ;)

71 CB750 K1
104,000 miles
Original Owner
———past———
70 SL100/125/150
70 Candy BlueGreen CB 750 K0
————————————————-
Former Honda parts kid/counter kid/do all
—————————————————————-
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Offline Bob Wessner

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Re: CB750 Spark Plug Fouling
« Reply #11 on: August 09, 2009, 11:52:34 AM »
I've squirreled all that detail away, Hondman. Thanks.
We'll all be someone else's PO some day.

Offline Simpson

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Re: CB750 Spark Plug Fouling
« Reply #12 on: August 09, 2009, 03:40:17 PM »
I figured it out today...  ;D

Apparently, the #4 cyl main jet back itself so far out it fell into the bowl.

Guess I didn't tighten it up very well last time.

Special thanks to Hondaman, as I have heard of those issues before.

Great to get a full explanation, especial in my thread!

« Last Edit: August 09, 2009, 03:41:50 PM by simpson »
1970 CB750 K0
1975 CL/CB 360 Mix

Offline HondaMan

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Re: CB750 Spark Plug Fouling
« Reply #13 on: August 09, 2009, 08:45:40 PM »
I've squirreled all that detail away, Hondman. Thanks.

Thanks, Bob!

It's just another "page" from this book I'm getting closer to...  :D
See SOHC4shop@gmail.com for info about the gadgets I make for these bikes.

The demons are repulsed when a man does good. Use that.
Blood is thicker than water, but motor oil is thicker yet...so, don't mess with my SOHC4, or I might have to hurt you.
Hondaman's creed: "Bikers are family. Treat them accordingly."

Link to Hondaman Ignition: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=67543.0

Link to My CB750 Book: https://www.lulu.com/search?adult_audience_rating=00&page=1&pageSize=10&q=my+cb750+book

Link to website: www.SOHC4shop.com