Topic: audiophile

[TwoTired]

How long are the lines, and how noisy an environment are they placed in?

1/4 cables (and RCA) cable can collect noise from external sources, either on the ground or the signal wire core.  These generally feed single ended input circuits.  Noise on either the shield or the core creates a response to that by the receiving circuit.
The balanced lines naturally negate such noise, as a positive blip on both signal lines is naturally ignored by receiving circuit.
Single ended receiving circuits can't do this without signal processing, which may also effect the desired signal.

In theory, you can run a balanced cable right next to an electric motor or florescent lamp ballast and you won't get any noise input to the circuit even though there is noise riding on lines.  Not so, with single ended lines.

However, it is not an issue if the operating environment has no noise sources to impress upon the interconnecting connecting wires.

[azuredesign]

Question:
The monitors have RCA, 1/4" and balanced inputs. Mixing board has only 1/4" and RCA. Any reason to go 1/4" to balanced, or just do 1/4" to 1/4"?

As I interpreted Two Tired as saying, and what I also believe, if you can go balanced from your output amp to your monitors, do so. This can also be accomplished with 1/4" tip/ring/sleeve jacks as long as the balanced circuit is present in both the amp output and the speaker input. You don't want to be trying to second guess if line noise is part of your recording or not. The more variables you can minimize, the better.

[mlinder]

OK, lemme back up a little.

Monitors are powered, so amp is inside of them. No power amp is used in this situation.
Monitors themselves are shielded, so as not to emit signal, or allow interference in. The inputs to the amps inside the monitors allow balanced, 1/2" and RCA.
The line to the monitors will come directly from the line-out/monitor-out of the mixing board.
There is a fair amount of stuff that will be powered nearby. A computer, an LCD screen or two, a couple effects boxes, a 4 port headphone amplifier, and my big VOX amp, though that won't be on often, usually only when using it to record.
Also, some crappy powered speakers will be there as well, not shielded. Of course, there's plenty of electricity running through the walls as well.

I guess my question is whether the fact that one side is 1/4" (unbalanced) negates the effect of one side being balanced.

[TwoTired]

I guess my question is whether the fact that one side is 1/4" (unbalanced) negates the effect of one side being balanced.

This confused me.  Define "side".  Your monitors don't have equivalent input connections, L/R?  Or you plan to use different connections schemes L/R.

Anyway, your environment would benefit from using the balance inputs on BOTH speaker inputs.

1/4 unbalanced inputs have more probability of amplifying extraneous line noise than balanced inputs.
I may also be true for your set up, that the actual line levels are different balanced vs. unbalanced.  If the internal input design in your speakers don't compensate for this, it can effect volume levels L/R.  Your signal source levels have the possibility to be different balanced/vs unbalanced, as well.

[mlinder]

I guess my question is whether the fact that one side is 1/4" (unbalanced) negates the effect of one side being balanced.

This confused me.  Define "side".  Your monitors don't have equivalent input connections, L/R?  Or you plan to use different connections schemes L/R.

Anyway, your environment would benefit from using the balance inputs on BOTH speaker inputs.

1/4 unbalanced inputs have more probability of amplifying extraneous line noise than balanced inputs.
I may also be true for your set up, that the actual line levels are different balanced vs. unbalanced.  If the internal input design in your speakers don't compensate for this, it can effect volume levels L/R.  Your signal source levels have the possibility to be different balanced/vs unbalanced, as well.

Sorry.

Monitors have 'balanced' and '1/4"' inputs.
Mixer has only '1/4"' out.

there are cables that go from balanced to 1/4".

there are cables that go form 1/4" to 1/4".

Is the fact that one side of a cable is 1/4" negate the balanced properties of the the balanced side?
Asking if it makes a difference whether I get 1/4" to 1/4" or balanced to 1/4"

[Duke McDukiedook]

I would go with the 1/4" to XLR balanced. If I remember right the 1/4" connector is basically grounded the same as an XLR connector, it just doesn't lock like an XLR connector does. Makes it easier to connect to mixing boards.

An XLR to XLR connection would be optimal, shielded and locks in.
 

[TwoTired]

Monitors have 'balanced' and '1/4"' inputs.
Mixer has only '1/4"' out.

Ah, OK.
 There are "matching transformers" in the 1/4 to balanced adapters.  To minimize noise pick up in the interconnect cables, use balanced cables and put the matching transformer adapters at the mixer output.  That way noise impressed upon the the interconnect lines gets ignored at the speaker inputs.

Is the fact that one side of a cable is 1/4" negate the balanced properties of the the balanced side?

Not completely.
There is opportunity for noise impressed upon the cable to get into the mixer's circuits and then be injected into the out going signal before it is converted to balanced output.  But, you would have that anyway if you used 1/4 unbalanced throughout, AND additional noise could be added on its journey between mixer and speaker amp.

Asking if it makes a difference whether I get 1/4" to 1/4" or balanced to 1/4"

I think I just answered that. No?  It can make a difference. But, only if an undesirable noise source exists.  Balanced lines are like insurance against hunting for nearby noise source causes.

That help?

[mlinder]

Yep, good to know, and will do so. Would hate having to try to run down some noise in a mix only to realise it's been in the amplification process the whole time.

[mlinder]

I have to say, these monitors are pretty absurdly good.
Little flat for regular music listening, as they don't color the sound at all, but nothing a little EQ can't fix.
That's ok, not what these are for,a nyway, as far as a good clean uncolored sound with even frequency response across the board, wether at ver low or very high levels, these are some of the best I've heard (at least so far).
I'll do a full frequency test (ear, not scientific) once I get everything situated in this room, postion wise.
Seriously, if you can afford a couple hundred bucks, get em, because V2 is coming out and these guys are going cheap and will be gone.
Thanks for your guys help re: cabling.

[BobbyR]

I have to say, these monitors are pretty absurdly good.
Little flat for regular music listening, as they don't color the sound at all, but nothing a little EQ can't fix.
That's ok, not what these are for,a nyway, as far as a good clean uncolored sound with even frequency response across the board, wether at ver low or very high levels, these are some of the best I've heard (at least so far).
I'll do a full frequency test (ear, not scientific) once I get everything situated in this room, postion wise.
Seriously, if you can afford a couple hundred bucks, get em, because V2 is coming out and these guys are going cheap and will be gone.
Thanks for your guys help re: cabling.

The ear is the instrument. People listen to these sounds not machines. No more than Dynos ride bikes.

[mlinder]

So far, very pleased.
I'm listening to music I'm very familiar with, heard a thousand times in the last 20 years.... and I'm hearing little bits I've never heard before, tiny accentuations with a guitar far back in the mix for half a second on one channel, things like that.
Did some volume tests at low frequencies, going down scales with very low notes and a smooth synth pad, and volume did not seem to change all the way down.
They do seem a tad bright, and I have dropped the HF filters, built in to the monitors, down to their lowest. I'm guessing some of that has to do with a.) no grilll and b.) listening environment. There is no sound deadening foam or acoustic material in the room, so I guess I'm getting some high frequency reflection.
These are better clarity and definition than my yamaha studio headphones.

[BobbyR]

So far, very pleased.
I'm listening to music I'm very familiar with, heard a thousand times in the last 20 years.... and I'm hearing little bits I've never heard before, tiny accentuations with a guitar far back in the mix for half a second on one channel, things like that.
Did some volume tests at low frequencies, going down scales with very low notes and a smooth synth pad, and volume did not seem to change all the way down.
They do seem a tad bright, and I have dropped the HF filters, built in to the monitors, down to their lowest. I'm guessing some of that has to do with a.) no grilll and b.) listening environment. There is no sound deadening foam or acoustic material in the room, so I guess I'm getting some high frequency reflection.
These are better clarity and definition than my yamaha studio headphones.

So as I said before, you are using the most sophisticated testing device available and they are passing the test. Congratulations on making  good purchase.

[Retro Rocket]

Yep, good to know, and will do so. Would hate having to try to run down some noise in a mix only to realise it's been in the amplification process the whole time.

I haven't read the whole thread but do you have Fluro lights where this is set up? They can be a real pain in the arse when trying to get clean signals.

Mick