Author Topic: Install Piston Rings Without Snapping Them (Read 18594 times)

matt s · « **on:** August 28, 2009, 08:05:59 PM »

Okay, I've just tore my engine down enough to get the pistons off. Everything was going great until I started to remove the old rings. I couldn't get them off without snapping them! I don't know how old these rings are and they may have been real brittle - I don't know. I know there are piston ring pliers out there - I don't have any.

Do I need these pliers to install my new rings? I don't want to snap any of my new rings!

Thanks,
matt

B.O.X.N.I.F.E. · « **Reply #1 on:** August 28, 2009, 08:26:53 PM »

Quote from: mattsauber on August 28, 2009, 08:05:59 PM

Do I need these pliers to install my new rings?

Yes

gane · « **Reply #2 on:** August 28, 2009, 08:53:26 PM »

No. G

matt s · « **Reply #3 on:** August 28, 2009, 08:55:09 PM »

Ok... Is this a yes or a no? Any reasoning behind either answer?

johnyvilla · « **Reply #4 on:** August 28, 2009, 09:30:28 PM »

Maybe..

mystic_1 · « **Reply #5 on:** August 28, 2009, 09:50:20 PM »

It depends.

Really, you can do it by hand if you have the right touch, but the piston ring expander pliers make the job much easier.

They're only a few bucks at your local auto parts store. Make sure to get a pair small enough to use on these small pistons.

mystic_1

Tnutz · « **Reply #6 on:** August 28, 2009, 09:51:55 PM »

i never use ring pliers and have done 3 successful rebuilds.

Gorms · « **Reply #7 on:** August 28, 2009, 10:05:16 PM »

Mine came right off. This may seem obvious, but instead of pulling the ring off the side so the ring gap has to expand to the diamater of the piston, pull one end out and up and twist them off over the top of the pistons. Vice versa for installation. Right guys? I have only done it once.

B.O.X.N.I.F.E. · « **Reply #8 on:** August 28, 2009, 10:37:03 PM »

It's a crap shoot without them. I can say I've never broken a ring when using the correct tool, but have broken several when not using the pliers.

spitfire · « **Reply #9 on:** August 29, 2009, 04:17:09 AM »

I use the same method as mentioned earlier, using fingers only pull out one end of the ring, slide it over the top of the piston and its out, reverse to install.

Cheers

Den

Bill/BentON Racing · « **Reply #10 on:** August 29, 2009, 06:08:23 AM »

Use em if you have or need them,they work,but I agree w/right touch easy to install by hand(CAREFULLY)!,had some break taking them off,never on assembly.Bill,3 pc oil ring install expander ring(center) first.Marks go on top;letters etc.for all rings and check ring end gap!

MCRider · « **Reply #11 on:** August 29, 2009, 06:21:30 AM »

Agree with the idea, yes and no. I've never used them either, never broke a ring. But, tools are always good.

Taking off I can see they are brittle, new ones should be supple.

Taking off, with thumbs, spread the gap just enough to get the ring out of the land, then work it up and off.

Reverse for install.

Tnutz · « **Reply #12 on:** August 29, 2009, 06:52:34 AM »

Quote

and check ring end gap!

you know i have never done it with OEM rings and probably should.

JohnG · « **Reply #13 on:** August 29, 2009, 07:36:17 AM »

Any rings will be somewhat brittle as they are largely cast iron. If you should break one, I have some spares (Std bore).

Make sure and thoroughly clean the ring grooves! Thoroughly... Hold them up to the light and rotate them so you little by little view the entire cross section of the groove. That new ring needs to be able to freely move around and not get stuck on some baked on piece of carbon.

Not only measure the end gap but also, once the compression rings are installed, the vertical clearance between the ring and the piston. This is sometimes overlooked and if there is substantial wear, can lead to a disappointing rebuild job.

Do you have new rings with 3 piece oil rings??? ( -024s)

How much mileage on the motor??

Johnny5 · « **Reply #14 on:** August 29, 2009, 08:27:12 AM »

Quote from: MCRider on August 29, 2009, 06:21:30 AM

Agree with the idea, yes and no. I've never used them either, never broke a ring. But, tools are always good.

Taking off I can see they are brittle, new ones should be supple.

Taking off, with thumbs, spread the gap just enough to get the ring out of the land, then work it up and off.

Reverse for install.

Exactly what I've found to be true.

matt s · « **Reply #15 on:** August 29, 2009, 10:04:01 AM »

Quote from: JohnG on August 29, 2009, 07:36:17 AM

Do you have new rings with 3 piece oil rings??? ( -024s)

How much mileage on the motor??

I just purchased these rings (didn't want to pay $200 for the set from Honda):
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=260467958855

The motor has around 30k on it - I just purchased it and am not sure how many miles are on the rings.

Thanks for all the replies. Anybody have a link to a pair of ring pliers that will work for these rings?

mystic_1 · « **Reply #16 on:** August 29, 2009, 10:13:43 AM »

The small cheap ones on the shelf at Napa work fine.

mystic_1

Jerry Rxman Griffin aka MuthaF'er · « **Reply #17 on:** August 29, 2009, 10:43:48 AM »

Which ring(s) did you snap? My bet would be the 1 piece oil ring.

Bodain · « **Reply #18 on:** August 29, 2009, 11:07:22 AM »

Your fingers can do the same thing as ring pliers when you install new rings. No you don't need them, at least I don't.

It's typical for very old rings to be stuck/ rusted in the groove. In this situation they do break very easy. I've tried to loosen some old rings up with the intent of using them and broke them.

I've purchased a few old beaters. Ran a compression test. 70 PSI... This is not good. Remove head and cylinder. The rings are stuck in the ring grooves and do not expand as they should. I very carefully work them loose, then remove from piston. Clean up the ring and piston ring grooves and reinstall rings, then put it all back together. Now it has 125 PSI and that will do.

tlbranth · « **Reply #19 on:** August 29, 2009, 12:33:20 PM »

I've always done rings by hand - well except for a couple of times. The reason it's tricky is because it takes a fair amount of force to open them and an obstacle or jerky motion can be curtains. For the one-piece rings do this: place the ring on top of the piston with the gap toward you. Use your thumbs and forefingers on the ring - thumbs in the gap, fingers in the back (lift one side of the gap to get your thumbs on the ends). Steady your hands and grip by holding the piston with your remaining fingers Slide the ring down to the correct slot. Don't let it go in the wrong slot. It's tricky to get back out. 3 piece oil rings : put the cage in (makke sure there's no oberlap). Thread the rings down through each slot 'til it gets to where it needs to go. Do this by starting one end of the ring in the top slot. Run your finger around the ring & push down until the whole thing is in the top slot. Then move it to the second etc. That's how I've done it for close to 50 years. Hope this helps.

JohnG · « **Reply #20 on:** August 29, 2009, 02:51:24 PM »

you can put thin sticks (like coffee stirrers) - say 3 - in between the oil ring and the piston and then slide the ring down to where you want it. A little grease or oil might help. Then gently slide the sticks out and you're in the groove!

bryanj · « **Reply #21 on:** August 30, 2009, 06:07:21 AM »

Never used ring expanders but old rings can get stock and then regularly break.
NEVER found a set of Honda (genuine) rings that needed the gap altered

Bill/BentON Racing · « **Reply #22 on:** August 30, 2009, 07:20:08 AM »

JohnG cheapest set of ring expanders I've heard of(next to your own hands),pretty clever,I also have never encountered std bore rings from Honda that need filing,but I check them anyway.Bill

matt s · « **Reply #23 on:** September 02, 2009, 06:16:36 PM »

Thanks for all the advice. I got my rings in today and very carefully installed all 4 sets... without pliers.

Turns out that the old ones were really brittle and broke very easily when removing them. The new ones were much more durable and went on without too much sweat.

Sweet!

Dave-and-his-550 · « **Reply #24 on:** September 02, 2009, 11:00:02 PM »

have fun figuring out how to stagger them, and then find out you did it wrong (Kind of)

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Author Topic: Install Piston Rings Without Snapping Them (Read 18594 times)